London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

[evilcod]

Well, it’s surely a step towards it happening, if nothing else? It does certainly make the project’s status seem more promising!

Today, evilcod announced he has taken four significant steps in preparation to submit proposals later this year. Despite the massive disruption caused by COVID-19, The forum user's expert team has maintained strong progress on its work and confirmed:

1. Proposals for a ‘late-summer / early autumn’ public consultation including online and ‘virtual’ engagement
   
   
2. Confirmed submission of a 30-word IS HE FOR REAL Scoping report by 12th June
   
   
3. Contacted advisors of affected forum readers, setting out terms for the acquisition of posts including an additional premium
   
   
4. Written to the Community Liaison Group to help share information about the project

evilcod, chief executive said:
With these steps we will finally be able to determine if anything can dampen Matt N's endless positivity and enthusiasm in the face of almost certain disappointment.

To be fair, they are probably going to have more success with the park than I will in my task.

 

[Matt N]

I just had an interesting thought; I was reading in Reuters the other day that the UK government is apparently devising a stimulus to boost the economy post-COVID, and one of the things heavily involved is big-scale infrastructure projects. It is worth noting that the project gained status as a Nationally Important Infrastructure Project in 2014, so could the government potentially rally for this to open or provide some sort of backing as a means to try and prop up the economy post-COVID?

 

[Craig]

I'm still completely and utterly sceptical that this will occur at all.

However, let's be under an assumption that it's possible that this is still a realistic possibility for the sake of discussion. In all honesty, the situation with Coronavirus has made the viability of this project even lower than it was already:

• The complete decimation of the leisure industry in the past few months has made putting money into the industry a very risky prospect for investors at present. Even riskier is a brand new unbuilt attraction when the track record of new parks and the length of time needed to recover investment is substantial.
• On the point of the government championing this. Existing leisure attractions (see Chester Zoo for example) are seriously struggling. I don't see how any government could realistically justify rallying support for a new attraction without putting in efforts to save the existing industry.

However, I will say there is potentially a silver lining for the project as a whole. There is potential that conferencing facilities will be in higher demand once Coronavirus is over. With more people seemingly working from home, this would mean a reduction in permanent offices.

As a result, there may be a higher demand for large facilities to hold annual/bi-annual company get-togethers to allow all staff to meet together for conferences. This would be an ideal use of hotel and conferencing facilities, although whether that would be at further expense of the bit we really want (the theme park) remains to be seen.

Even with that silver lining though, there's still a hell of a lot of uncertainty in the world right now, and I'm not sure if the appetite for investment in a new resort would be there. Especially when existing attractions with an established name and customer base are likely to be crying out for investment or even to be bought outright in the coming few years.

 

[delta79]

I do wonder if it will be built backwards. With hotel and conferencing facilities being the first things on the site, with attraction coming later using the hotel and conferencing facilities as collateral for loans.

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[Craig]

I do wonder if it will be built backwards. With hotel and conferencing facilities being the first things on the site, with attraction coming later using the hotel and conferencing facilities as collateral for loans.

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Yup that's been my gut feeling for a while now. Build the conferencing and hotel facilities first, push it as a wedding/conferencing/entertainment venue first and then have the theme park as the ultimate aim later.

That said, even that is a push, with restaurants etc going out of business in their droves at the moment.

 

[Matt N]

On the flip side, a big resort may well be a good way to boost the British tourism industry, and it’s worth noting that the project isn’t due to open until 2024, by which point most forecasts predict the economy will have mostly recovered. If you think about it, a resort like this offers a number of economic benefits, some of which will be very much needed post-COVID, such as:

• Many new jobs; this will help with unemployment levels in Britain, as well as replenishing hospitality jobs lost during COVID. Also, more jobs = more tax for the government to put into things like public services and necessary funds, meaning that the country as a whole gets richer and improves.
• Boost to tourism; a huge resort like this one is being touted as being will attract international tourism to the UK, which the government will surely be wanting more of in order to prop up our tourism industry. If the park attracts international tourism, then these tourists may be more inclined to visit other British tourist attractions than they otherwise would have been, meaning that the government benefits through the economy increasing and them receiving more in taxes from tourist attractions. A park like this could definitely have much larger international appeal than any other park in the UK currently does, and I think that’s very much what they intend to do. Think of the benefits that the other mega park resorts around the world provide for their respective countries and local areas; the government will surely be wanting to harness that!
• Benefits for the local area; as I already touched upon above, this will provide colossal benefits to the local area. As I said above, tourists to the park may well be inclined to see other bits of the local area while visiting, but there’s also the point to consider of; some people may find the on-site accommodation too pricey or just not meeting their needs in general, so local accommodation like B&Bs and local hotels will benefit from that crowd. Think about how much Alton Towers benefits the local businesses, and that is a resort on a mere fraction of the scale that the London Resort is intended to be!

There are probably more benefits that I haven’t mentioned above, but my point is; the government will probably be very, very keen for this to happen. This is the sort of thing that would be considered a top-down development, where the economy benefits hugely from it and these benefits eventually trickle down to the community in various ways. I get the impression that Boris Johnson and his government (as well as past Conservative governments) are very much fans of top-down infrastructure projects like this one, and I think infrastructure projects are going to be a very large part of the UK’s economic recovery from COVID. It may also be worth noting that this has been declared a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project, so the government’s weight is definitely behind the project.

Apologies for turning the last few lines into a bit of a human geography lesson, but I just thought I could offer a bit of an alternative perspective!

 

[Craig]

There's no doubts about the benefits to the local area if this actually happened, and most importantly if the whole actually completed as promised - and let's not forget there've been multiple substantial changes already before we've even had full planning!

In terms of this being a NSIP though, this is ultimately just a bit of a freebie from the government to try and give a private project a bit more prominence to attract investment. Prior to the government reclassifying what was a NSIP 2014, it wouldn't have had a sniff at becoming one. The sort of national infrastructure projects that spring to mind for the good of the country are power plants, roads, rail improvements. Adding private projects such as this doesn't cost the government anything, it just helps a private company out by giving it a bit more (and I use this term lightly) "prestige" to investors.

My points made numerous times for this project still stand. If it was pulled off, then great but the fact remains that we're rapidly approaching a decade down the line and not a single thing has really happened. With an increasingly fragile economic climate, I really struggle to see how any sort of announcement about them aiming for a public consultation in Autumn is anything positive. As with previous "announcements" this is just another push to remind investors that they're still after some cash, aside from that (still!) nothing has changed.

 

[Matt N]

I thought some rich Middle Eastern investor was sourcing the money, as well as a variety of other companies?

 

[rob666]

Just give up Matt.
There was no chance before.
There is less chance now heading into recession.

 

[Britford]

I suspect we will see it half built then left to rot...

 

[delta79]

The future is not looking good for it at the moment. Another recession, just after 7 yrs of austerity and large government debt from covid19.

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[Ian]

Maybe one day in 2024 this development might almost be as far along as it’s Spanish counterpart...

 

[Matt N]

The thing to note here also is; the public consultations aren’t intended to be until August or September, and the planning permission itself is intended for October. By then, I think we will have a more certain idea of where the world is going in terms of the economy. Speaking of the recession, I don’t think I’ve seen a single forecast that predicts the economic recovery taking longer than until 2023, and the park is due for 2024. And I recently saw an article suggesting that these original forecasts may have been too pessimistic. So in theory, the developers have nothing to lose.

My thinking behind being more positive lately is because; if there was a perfect time to announce the project’s cancellation, it would be now. The pandemic has ravaged the economy, and there has never been a worse time to be behind a major project like this, so in my eyes, if they wanted to cancel, they would have done it now and used the pandemic as an excuse. But they haven’t announced cancellation, instead announcing further progression in getting the project off the ground. If they’re preparing to cancel, as you all expect, then that would seem like a very confusing thing to do as opposed to just declaring it done for. The pandemic and recession provide a fantastic scapegoat for them to use, so the question is; why wouldn’t they just announce cancellation now?

Also, with regards to the “they haven’t got any money” debate; they have got money. The Kuwaiti investor I just mentioned is providing a substantial amount of the money towards it, and other companies have pledged funding as well, such as Keltbray, the company behind the infrastructure for the London 2012 Olympics.

In other news, Paramount have recently announced a new theme park to be built in Kunming in China, so I don’t think they are exactly deterred by the pandemic. I’ll find a link.
EDIT: Here’s a link: http://www.themeparx.com/paramount-park-kunming/?p=21794#post21794

 

[KolonelKlink]

On the flip side, a big resort may well be a good way to boost the British tourism industry, and it’s worth noting that the project isn’t due to open until 2024

It's also worth noting that the project was originally due to open last year! Eight years after they first announced the damn thing, all we've got is...the prospect of a new public consultation.

a huge resort like this one is being touted as being will attract international tourism to the UK, which the government will surely be wanting more of in order to prop up our tourism industry.

Before the London Resort itself needs propping up. Your perennial reminder than two years after Euro Disney opened - with all the backing of the Walt Disney Corporation and everything else that goes with it - the park very narrowly avoided bankruptcy. If that's too far in the dim and distant past, look no further than the Dubai Parks resort - which is similar to this project in a number of ways - and has been haemorrhaging money left, right and centre.

some people may find the on-site accommodation too pricey or just not meeting their needs in general, so local accommodation like B&Bs and local hotels will benefit from that crowd.

You've never been to Ebbsfleet, Northfleet, Gravesend or the surrounding area, have you.

I just thought I could offer a bit of an alternative perspective!

As I and many others have said before, Matt, you should bottle your enthusiasm and sell it as some kind of potion. But I've got more chance of winning the lottery than seeing this park actually built - and I don't even play the lottery.

 

[Craig]

I thought some rich Middle Eastern investor was sourcing the money, as well as a variety of other companies?

KEH (Kuwaiti European Holding Company) have the majority holding in London Resort Company Holdings. The remainder of the shares seem to be issued out to another 30 odd or so individual investors and random companies who I've never heard of.

It's worth noting the director of KEH also owns KEH Sports which own Ebbsfleet United. They're substantially overdue on their accounts at present, not a great sign to potential investors!

Also, with regards to the “they haven’t got any money” debate; they have got money. The Kuwaiti investor I just mentioned is providing a substantial amount of the money towards it, and other companies have pledged funding as well, such as Keltbray, the company behind the infrastructure for the London 2012 Olympics.

Keltbray were brought on board under a joint venture with LRH with the intention to invest £25m. Their main role was to help with managing construction and to bring additional investors on board though, and it's not clear whether they were providing that £25m, or that was the amount their contribution was said to be worth.

However, a quick check on Companies House shows that the joint venture company setup - LR Keltbray JV (Holdings) Ltd was actually dissolved in November 2019, just over a year after it was announced. So Keltbray no longer have any sort of involvement.

My thinking behind being more positive lately is because; if there was a perfect time to announce the project’s cancellation, it would be now.

It would be, except that they've issued shares to multiple investors with a promise of a return for that money. At present, the company has liabilities with no way of paying for them, so they must try to continue to try and attract investment and move the project forward. But, the longer this goes on, the more difficult it becomes to try and progress it.

Just as an addition on the NSIP front, this was designated funnily enough after former Conservative MP Steve Norris was appointed Chairman....funny that .

 

[Mr Pearse]

Jaysus I still can’t believe this is still ongoing. There is a reason why a large scale park hasn’t been built in the U.K. for many years. It’s a very costly risk and no guarantee if it will work out. Just think how much money has been wasted so far and nothing has been built. This will never end but I honestly think at the end of all this all you’ll see built is a hotel with high quality conferencing facilities.

 

[rob666]

The "pre planning" public consultations were done in 2014.
No need to go there again.
No need to ask anyone anything, just dust off the files from a few years ago.
Should have opened two years ago.
Lots of talk of no resources or reduced need for HS2 and new runways, but money for new parks?
And middle eastern pockets have tightened rather quickly as the price of oil has dropped through the floor.
Not a chance in hell.
They will resort to Matt N quotes in their publicity next.

 

[Dave]

Very few theme parks are built from scratch and survive. Most are a gradual development of an existing attraction with existing infrastructure (zoos, gardens etc). Even Universal in Florida severely struggled until it got its hands on the Harry Potter IP.

This was never going to happen and is still never going to happen.

 

[Skyscraper]

Hmmm.



"Significant progress"? Don't think so.

 

[CSLKenny]

Didn't they already do public consultation meetings in 2014 and 2015? Obviously greatly furthered the project last time!
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