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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

If nothing else, it’s the most concrete thing we’ve seen from them since at least 2014. That in itself must be at least a little promising, no?
 
Anybody can create a glossy report. I did plenty of them for my GCSEs. It doesn't count for anything.

Until there's actual construction and physical infrastructure this still sits in the "pipedream" and "not gonna happen" categories for me.
 
Alsty said:
Anybody can create a glossy report. I did plenty of them for my GCSEs. It doesn't count for anything.

Until there's actual construction and physical infrastructure this still sits in the "pipedream" and "not gonna happen" categories for me.
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I’d probably even take a step back from that, and believe something may appear if major contract awards were announced, eg for groundworks, infrastructure, rides etc. But solid, going-ahead contracts, not “Ooo maybe we could buy a ride off Intamin”.


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The park if it ever gets built will never be able to compete with the parks in Europe in terms of visitor numbers. End of the day it’s the same story that’s rumbled on for the last 8 years and frankly until the diggers turn up on the site then I’ll believe it’s happening.
 
I think a major advantage to the resort is the proposed Ebbsfleet interchange, which will allow residents of Paris to travel to the resort in just over two hours on the Eurostar, making the resort one of the most internationally accessible in the country.

Plus with the time zone difference, the inbound journey will be closer to just over one hour, giving Parisian day visitors more time in the parks than their English counterparts.
 
Sorry, still absolute zero progress.
Just another bit of dreaming, just more detail.
No sign of the real money at all, still.
And we will see "real concrete progress" Matt when we progress to real concrete!
 
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rob666 said:
Sorry, still absolute zero progress.
Just another bit if dreaming, just more detail.
No sign of the real money at all, still.
And we will see "real concrete progress" Matt when we progress to real concrete!
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If nothing else, I’d argue that this is the closest we’ve come to “concrete progress” since at least 2014, even if it’s not actual “concrete” progress in the way that you describe.

That must be even just slightly more promising, surely?

With regards to “the money”, I did actually see somewhere where they actually broke down where they were getting their funds from. I think the bulk of it (£2bn) is coming from some investment bank, with KEH providing £500m and Keltbray providing £25m, with a few other sources mentioned too. I’ll see if I can find the article.
 
Yeah I can’t see any investment bank or even some wealthy backers to ever put money on this. They will never get the investment back as this will just fail. If and big if this gets built then why would it draw in more crowds then the whole uk theme park collection in one swoop. At the moment the go to park in the uk is Alton Towers and that’s an established park. It’s just a persons dream anyone who puts any money into this must be crazy. As I always said many times going full Wack and building a massive park with the theory of if we build it they will come is mental. Most parks in the uk the success has been build over time as rome wasn’t built in a day.
 
Matt N said:
If nothing else, I’d argue that this is the closest we’ve come to “concrete progress” since at least 2014, even if it’s not actual “concrete” progress in the way that you describe.

That must be even just slightly more promising, surely?

With regards to “the money”, I did actually see somewhere where they actually broke down where they were getting their funds from. I think the bulk of it (£2bn) is coming from some investment bank, with KEH providing £500m and Keltbray providing £25m, with a few other sources mentioned too. I’ll see if I can find the article.
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I love your enthusiasm I really do but this isn’t progress. It’s life support. Even if the numbers stacked up 5 years ago (which they didn’t), We are in the middle of global financial crisis that is acutely impacting the leisure industry. It is not going to get investment and it is not going to happen.
 
@Matt N, I take it you are too young to remember the millennium dome?

That had aimed to get 12million visitors in that year, when Alton Towers got 8 million. The costs spiralled and they needed a lot more government and lottery money as the number of guests that turned up was about half what they expected (but what is actually a realistic number.

This reminds me of that, trying to become the second most visited attraction in Europe straight away, unfortunately I don't see it happening. Imagine them standing in Dragons Den, trying to convince the Dragons that the numbers are correct and achievable.
Realistically, with decent IP it could get as many visitors as Alton Towers, but the location will be awkward for a lot of the UK to get to, although Alton Towers is annoyingly remote, it is well located in terms of being in the middle of the UK.
 
jon81uk said:
@Matt N, I take it you are too young to remember the millennium dome?

That had aimed to get 12million visitors in that year, when Alton Towers got 8 million. The costs spiralled and they needed a lot more government and lottery money as the number of guests that turned up was about half what they expected (but what is actually a realistic number.
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And unlike this I can understand why people estimated to Dome would see such high visitor numbers. It was in the centre of London, for a limited time only (come see it while you can) and could be done as a half day attraction, therefore up to twice the number of people. It just goes to show that even with all that in its favour (And the thousands of school kids they brought in daily) it couldn't compete with established attractions.

There's no way that any new attraction in Europe could overtake Efteling, Europa, PortAventura and the other major resorts overnight. Energyland has come closest to doing that but it's taken them at least a decade and some major ride hardware. Likewise Disney Paris didn't become the leader overnight, and that was before most of the parks today became the big players they are now.
 
I don't understand why they need to start big. Close to London and an international railway station is a prime location. Perhaps if they aimed a bit lower and waited for coronavirus to pan out first, the project might get somewhere.
 
MakoMania said:
I was under the impression that Towers' record attendance was 3 million?
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I looked at this article to refresh my memory on the figures and then misread it! https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-experience-disaster-inside-story-new-labour
"The combined number of tickets sold for Alton Towers, Madame Tussauds and the London Eye in 2000 was 8m"

But it just proves the point even further, I really don't see why this project would expect to get such high numbers.
 
speedy said:
I don't understand why they need to start big. Close to London and an international railway station is a prime location. Perhaps if they aimed a bit lower and waited for coronavirus to pan out first, the project might get somewhere.
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Exactly this.

If you told me the proposed project was being built by Disney or Universal, with all their financial backing and industry experience, I'd still say they were being overly optimistic.

London Resort Company Holdings are just aiming too high and that also makes their plans lack credibility. Start small, think of something unique or niche that would really excite visitors and make them want to visit. Build that to a high quality and create great experiences. When it starts to get traction and visitors, invest more and grow the business sustainably. It would also be easier to get new investors when you show them a proven track record.
 
Alsty said:
When it starts to get traction and visitors, invest more and grow the business sustainably. It would also be easier to get new investors when you show them a proven track record.
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Can almost compare this to Tayto Park (yes they have very different aspirations) but what started as a tour of a crisp factory and a fun fair, then added a wooden rollercoaster, which meant they could add a flume, which means they can add two more coasters etc etc.
 
What makes you all believe that this park will not achieve its attendance targets?

For all we know, 6.5 million could be the projected number for its first full, 365-day year. Shanghai Disneyland managed to pull that in its first 5-6 months, so if you remove the Disney hype factor & China’s high population from the equation, then I’d personally say that a number just over half of what Shanghai Disneyland gets in a 365-day year sounds plausible if they do some very good marketing and put some brilliant stuff in, which from the concept art, it looks like they’re planning to.

12.5 million for the completed project is less than DLP gets in an average year (I think they got about 15 million overall in 2018?), and bear in mind that while DLP has the two parks, the hotels and the entertainment district, this project will also have a huge indoor water park, which DLP doesn’t; I’d assume that this water park could provide at least 1-2 million of the forecasted visitor figures depending on how big “Europe’s largest indoor water park” is planned to be. For reference, Therme’s planned Manchester water park project is forecasted to get 2 million guests a year, so if LER’s water park is a lot bigger, as they are making out, then it could potentially pull more visitors. I also think the entertainment district is planned to be at least the same size as DLP’s if not larger; it looks like they’re planning to build something pretty substantial.

I admit that 12.5 million for a two-park resort looks very ambitious on the face of it, and even 6.5 million for one theme park raises a few eyebrows. But if you break it down into all the different elements of this resort, then it sounds a little more plausible to me. Presuming this water park could pull 1-2 million visitors a year at least, and the entertainment district may well pull a few more visitors on its own, then that leaves you with a maximum figure of around 4-5 million for the initial theme park itself, which I don’t think sounds inplausible at all given that Alton Towers has pulled 2.5-3m on multiple occasions in the past (pre-Smiler crash, 2.5 million or slightly above was roughly an average yearly figure for the park). Looking at the EMEA section of the 2018 TEA report, even the upper end of my estimate at 5 million guests would only put the main park as 5th in Europe (behind Walt Disney Studios, Efteling, Europa Park and Disneyland Park Paris, in case you’re wondering). The bottom end of my estimate at 4 million would put it in 6th behind Tivoli Gardens as well as the 4 I just mentioned, and not a huge amount above PortAventura Park.

With regards to the location, it may not be brilliant for some Brits, but it’s worth remembering that London is by far Britain’s most populated area (roughly 7.6 million live in London, and I think that might only be the city), and the city also gets huge amounts of international tourism (20.42 million people visited London in 2018). With the international audience the park is aiming to appeal to as well as the domestic audience, I don’t think the numbers sound unattainable by any means provided adequate marketing and attractions for a Resort of this size are in place.
 
far Far to risky unfortunately. How far are Chessington, Thorpe and legoland from London yet they only draw in possibly up to 5-6million each year. I can’t see anything so far that would encourage more then 5 million people to visit if that. Why would they come to England to a park with no reputation possibly no decent ips when they have some of the best reputable parks across Europe. It’s crazy far to crazy that are literally doing if we build it they will come plan. If the high number of tourists are not visiting the three main parks all up to 30 miles away from central London why would they travel to this park and this park only. Legoland it’s a major reputable brand and park but that don’t get massive numbers. It don’t matter if it’s near London it could be near Birmingham or Newcastle if there’s nothing to draw people In then the idea is dead in the water. Anyone who invests any of the 5 billion needed to build this should give their head a wobble as no sane business man would ever approve of this fantasy. The fact no major investors have come forward says it all. Look at all the brands who have been linked and part of it then backed out. It’s a poisoned chalice unfortunately no one wants to touch it with a barge pole.
 
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