MattyH
TS Member
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From what I've heard the flume is too far gone to be saved.
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Major Ride Closures 2016
Altonadvocate1
TS Member
From what I've heard the flume is too far gone to be saved.
I can dream.. been riding her for more than 32 years... let me rephrase that.
TheMan
TS Member
From the Telegraph report on The Smiler.
For those not familiar.
That is a QUARTER OF A BILLION POUNDS.
Can we stop with the crap about money please.
This is the flagship park, enough with defending it.
It's not right, there's no justification, it short changes visitors paying the same amount who will now get substantially less for their money (including annual passes being used/dates/attractions at Towers).
I know we all have different views, I respect that, but...
A QUARTER OF A BILLION POUNDS.
I think that should just about kill that argument off.
Altonadvocate1
TS Member
That's a huge amount of money, but needs to be put in the context of the amount of investment required to earn it.
250 million pounds is a 25% return on an investment of 1 billion, but only a 2.5% return on an investment of 10 billion and 0.25% return on an investment of 100 billion. I have no idea what Merlin total investment in all of their worldwide activities is, but it is a basic rule of business that shareholders require a greater return on a venture that carries an element of risk, than in a venture with no risk.
Investors need to see the likelihood of a return to make initial and subsequent investments.
Personally, im not greedy and i'd be happy with the quarter of a billion.
Apologies to The Man... just playing Devils advocate to stir up a debate.
250 million pounds is a 25% return on an investment of 1 billion, but only a 2.5% return on an investment of 10 billion and 0.25% return on an investment of 100 billion. I have no idea what Merlin total investment in all of their worldwide activities is, but it is a basic rule of business that shareholders require a greater return on a venture that carries an element of risk, than in a venture with no risk.
Investors need to see the likelihood of a return to make initial and subsequent investments.
Personally, im not greedy and i'd be happy with the quarter of a billion.
Apologies to The Man... just playing Devils advocate to stir up a debate.
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TowerTigger
TS Member
I find it hard to accept that they are suddenly going to turn off so many rides... I have a five / nearly six year old, 125cm tall. She is too big / not really interested in Cbeebies land any more but not quite big enough for the likes of Nemesis.
If they suddenly removed the rumoured rides then that's a BIG chunk of her day out gone and we would simply have to look at other parks. Us and many other families with children around the same age / height.
Its makes no business sense. Specially at a time when the park is struggling following the smiler incident. I think / hope the TLC is going to be similar to what Disney are currently doing. Take out a couple of rides, do them up or replace them and then move on to another set. To just suddenly turn off six rides would be huge and its not like we struggle for places to go for alternatives in this age range.
Going to be incredibly dumb if Merlin go ahead with this. So dumb I just can't see it happening.
If they suddenly removed the rumoured rides then that's a BIG chunk of her day out gone and we would simply have to look at other parks. Us and many other families with children around the same age / height.
Its makes no business sense. Specially at a time when the park is struggling following the smiler incident. I think / hope the TLC is going to be similar to what Disney are currently doing. Take out a couple of rides, do them up or replace them and then move on to another set. To just suddenly turn off six rides would be huge and its not like we struggle for places to go for alternatives in this age range.
Going to be incredibly dumb if Merlin go ahead with this. So dumb I just can't see it happening.
TheMan
TS Member
Polite forum reminder...
This is Merlin we're talking about.
And the sources are pretty damn reliable generally being serious.
Expect the closures. They'll be happening.
Flume is closed, Ripsaw has gone, N:ST is closed for various reasons already that people more knowledgeable than I have discussed.
It's only basically adding CATCF, Driving School, and Hex.
Which I can easily believe to be true.
As well as The Smiler being closed for a presently still undetermined (or unknown publicly at least) time.
I agree implicitly with every point you made, except that very last one I quoted.
Merlin are, indeed, that dumb.
MaxPower
TS Member
Merlin are indeed that dumb @TowerTigger. Merlin have quite a rich history of dumb decisions, so much so that very little surprises us anymore.
I would also expect reduced capacity on most attractions this year as well.
I would also expect reduced capacity on most attractions this year as well.
Altonadvocate1
TS Member
Whilst it us a shame to lose these attractions and for me at least the flume in particular, most of them are not too disimilar to what you may find in a fairground or much smaller lower budget park. These attractions are not of a caliber that will take AT forward and compete with the likes of PP, etc.
If AT wishes to be THE big player in the UK and A big player on the world stage, they need innovative new rides and experiences on a grand scale utilising new generation technologies.
Just as Nemesis took the park to a whole new level in 1994, the same imagination, risk taking and investment is required again.
I don't know if we will get it, but if these rides are indeed closing, vastly superior replacements are needed year on year from 2018 (and ideally 2017 (probably a bit late for that now) and onwards.
AT needs to retain and look after its biggest assets, the secret weapons (3 of which are world class and 1 of which is for me the best coaster in the world to this day), the towers, the gardens, the rapids, but it also needs to reinvent itself and take its portfolio of world class attractions to a whole new level, much as Thorpe Park did over a 6 year period.
If the years prior to 1994 were stage one, and 1994 to 2013 was stage two, it is now time for stage 3.
My concern is that towers remote location and poor transport links may forever limit the number of visitors it can attract and hence the amount of investment that can be justified.
AT has limits to the number of visitors that it can attract. Most of us enthusiasts hate the term resort, the VIP system, the constant up sell, but if AT cannot have more than 3 million visitors per year, then they must increase the Average Revenue per Guest if we are to have continued investment. I understand their strategy of aiming at families and stay over guests completely.
They need the Theme Park to attract guests, but the resort to increase the ARPG. I don't think we can have one without the other.
If AT wishes to be THE big player in the UK and A big player on the world stage, they need innovative new rides and experiences on a grand scale utilising new generation technologies.
Just as Nemesis took the park to a whole new level in 1994, the same imagination, risk taking and investment is required again.
I don't know if we will get it, but if these rides are indeed closing, vastly superior replacements are needed year on year from 2018 (and ideally 2017 (probably a bit late for that now) and onwards.
AT needs to retain and look after its biggest assets, the secret weapons (3 of which are world class and 1 of which is for me the best coaster in the world to this day), the towers, the gardens, the rapids, but it also needs to reinvent itself and take its portfolio of world class attractions to a whole new level, much as Thorpe Park did over a 6 year period.
If the years prior to 1994 were stage one, and 1994 to 2013 was stage two, it is now time for stage 3.
My concern is that towers remote location and poor transport links may forever limit the number of visitors it can attract and hence the amount of investment that can be justified.
AT has limits to the number of visitors that it can attract. Most of us enthusiasts hate the term resort, the VIP system, the constant up sell, but if AT cannot have more than 3 million visitors per year, then they must increase the Average Revenue per Guest if we are to have continued investment. I understand their strategy of aiming at families and stay over guests completely.
They need the Theme Park to attract guests, but the resort to increase the ARPG. I don't think we can have one without the other.
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While you could find a top spin or log flume at a fair or small park, you will not find Charlie or NST, and you will definitely not find a mad house of similar quality (in my opinion) anywhere in the country!
Burbs
TS Team
Actually, Hex is widely regarded as one of the best mad houses in the world!
I prefer Impossible at BPB though.
Croftybaby
TS Member
This is my Dilemma too, and probably a vast majority of Towers SPENDING market. My Daughter is Turning 9 on 19th March, she is 1.3 metres (And kids tend to spend a good few years in the 1.3 - 1.4 height region) While i'd love to pop up to towers and see the newly painted shutters and food/ticket buildings it really doesn't make any sense and would be a total waste of time and money.
Too old for Cbeebies, too small for the coasters. Whats left?
Rob
TS Team
Spinball, Rapids, Duel, RMT, Thirteen, Blade, Twirling Toadstool, Marauders Mayhem, Enterprise and for those who like getting drenched, Battle Galleons.
So 10 rides. The almost shocking thing from that list is the lack of dark rides, not helped by the closures of Hex and Charlie. Some of the best family theme park around the world, including Disney and EP, are full of dark rides that guests of all ages can enjoy.
Martin
TS Member
They definitely need to invest in that family market. Of those rides that Rob listed, only three have been build this side of 2000 (and only two by Merlin), and two of those are coasters, one of which was a replacement for another family coaster anyway.
But I'm not sure how they're going to go about it. I wouldn't say no to another major 1.2-1.3m coaster, but I'm not sure the park really needs it, at least not more than something fitting between RMT and Spinball, something along the lines of Pegasus at EP maybe, but is that something the park would be willing to build?. If the new dark ride at Thorpe is a success it's likely they'll try to repeat that at Alton, it's pretty realistic to imagine them adding a major dark ride in the near future, but unfortunately the problems they've had with N:ST has probably put them off smaller dark rides. And we all know Merlin for whatever reason aren't fans of traditional flats either.
But I'm not sure how they're going to go about it. I wouldn't say no to another major 1.2-1.3m coaster, but I'm not sure the park really needs it, at least not more than something fitting between RMT and Spinball, something along the lines of Pegasus at EP maybe, but is that something the park would be willing to build?. If the new dark ride at Thorpe is a success it's likely they'll try to repeat that at Alton, it's pretty realistic to imagine them adding a major dark ride in the near future, but unfortunately the problems they've had with N:ST has probably put them off smaller dark rides. And we all know Merlin for whatever reason aren't fans of traditional flats either.