MAP Christmas/New Year Sale

[GAGrathea]

Yeah, like, my quality of life would be significantly lower if I didn't have my regular theme park trips - they're my primary source of escapism as well as the primary place I see a significant number of friends.

For me, speaking as an individual, going regularly does not reduce the quality of trips (in comparison to years in which I visited the park once or twice), it just changes the experience and makes it more enjoyable for other reasons. Maybe I don't get blown away by the surprise of Hex or queue in fear for Nemmy, but the joy I get in other ways and the sense of being back in a place which makes me truly happy more than counterbalance that. And I know I'm not the only one for whom this is the case.

Thus, for me personally, the MAP's a perfect arrangement: I can go to all the main tourist attractions in the UK that I love, as many times as I like, at the drop of a hat, and at ultimately little expense for the product I'm getting.

In return, Merlin get the price of my pass, and the parks each get a lot more out of me as far as Food & Bev, merch, and accommodation is concerned than they would from the average yearly-visiting guest. This works out well for me as the food & merch & accomm I get is cheaper than usual, and some of the money I spend goes towards a small part of improving/maintaing the parks that I love in some way (or if not, paying some of my friends' wages).

Happy days

 

[TheMan]

Apologies if that doesn't get my intended message across, I'm very tired and typing on my tiny iPhone keyboard!

Came across fine Buff

As I say, they are squeezing more from it anyway - I am a case in point. It was a no brainer, as for others I knew, now they think twice or don't - like I didn't last year. What is more, when I go, I spend less on park because of the hassle and poorer atmospheres, and everything is increasing in price making overall potential spends pretty high now.

They get you in, you spend your money, you feel you had value on entrance, so are more easy with your wallet. I used to do that, they went past that envelope for me though. Distance/cost/value was outweighed by negatives.

I am not the only one thinking this way either.

As far as I am concerned, they have reached their ceiling, if they push it up much more in this economy like they did last year, having gates suffer - they will get a rude surprise.

Alton, if they ever open The Smiler will be ok - but it will be a false position, and unless the economy improves, they will certainly feel it later.

You are not acting as Theme Park enthusiasts, you are acting as Merlin enthusiasts, as you are not really recognising the long term damage this ever growing captive audience is creating.

I am a theme park enthusiast, and what Merlin are doing here worries me and I talk about it often. Every extra penny you spend that you perceive as "value" (which isn't, it is false pricing), is an extra penny not spent at competitor.

Not against the pass, or again saying it isn't still great value, never have said that - is it good for you personally, or in the industry as a whole? No. Not remotely so.

 

[GAGrathea]

Not against the pass, or again saying it isn't still great value, never have said that - is it good for you personally, or in the industry as a whole? No. Not remotely so.

Yes, it is good for me personally because it lets me do exactly what I want to do at a cheaper price.

Yes, as already discussed, by Theme Park industry standards it's the best value annual pass offered by any company.

 

[TheMan]

Not against the pass, or again saying it isn't still great value, never have said that - is it good for you personally, or in the industry as a whole? No. Not remotely so.

Yes, it is good for me personally because it lets me do exactly what I want to do at a cheaper price.

Yes, as already discussed, by Theme Park industry standards it's the best value annual pass offered by any company.

I was talking on a different level to just finance mate, I mean long term - it is damaging, other theme parks will suffer, competition will suffer, and your choices will be limited, and therefore your life experiences.

I work in the music industry, I have watched it decline in the same way. It is obvious when you have seen it intimately.

Enjoy the value now, you will pay later.

 

[thefatone]

Aww bugger. Visiting a park because it's close to me often is bad for me.

I imagine the overwhelming majority of passes are sold because people are in the nearby locality. They're a big seller, something around 160,000 passes I last read (was it in a financial report?).

As for industry, I doubt it. I use mine because i'm nearby, and not having one doesn't mean I'll suddenly travel a few hundred miles to visit oakwood every weekend.

Merlin are quite sensitive to the economy, i'm sure they know their pricing and strategies. They're very good at marketing, and you cannot market something well at the wrong price.

 

[Dave]

Spending money at Merlin parks rather than competitors is a completely different issue and that's based on the monopoly Merlin has with theme parks, you could scrap the MAP tomorrow and that wouldn't change as they would still own those parks and enthusiasts would still err towards Merlin as the own 4 of the top 5 parks.

There is no false perceived value as value is all about perception. It differs from person to person and you can try and say its a false value but then you are not accepting the underlying individuality of value.

Yeah Merlin have an advantage with their portfolio and its stifling creativity in the UK industry but that is not to do with the MAP

 

[Tom]

I respect people's points but there are/were 200,000 pass holders in the UK, if Nick Varney is to be believed. There aren't 200,000 individuals on all of the enthusiast forums combined, so we aren't representative of people no longer considering a pass worth it, even at these sale prices. I believe many will not be encouraged to renew at £99 as opposed to the £78 offered last year.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

 

[GAGrathea]

Not against the pass, or again saying it isn't still great value, never have said that - is it good for you personally, or in the industry as a whole? No. Not remotely so.

Yes, it is good for me personally because it lets me do exactly what I want to do at a cheaper price.

Yes, as already discussed, by Theme Park industry standards it's the best value annual pass offered by any company.

I was talking on a different level to just finance mate, I mean long term - it is damaging, other theme parks will suffer, competition will suffer, and your choices will be limited, and therefore your life experiences.

I work in the music industry, I have watched it decline in the same way. It is obvious when you have seen it intimately.

Enjoy the value now, you will pay later.

Okay... Long term. Other significant theme parks which share the 'catchment area' (if you will) for the MAP...

So that's, erm...Blackpool and Drayton, one of which is popular by its name alone and the other of which already gets far bigger crowds than it can cope with on peak days.

Blackpool's AP costs about a thousand pounds, making it an unviable spend for most, a Drayton Manor one costs roughly the same as a Towers one.

Merlin and Tussauds before them have had the country's overall theme park monopoly for basically as long as there's been a theme park industry in Britain (Blackpool doesn't count). What's your proposed solution to this "suffering" you perceive my annual pass causing?

 

[Wilsy]

The value of the pass to me is personal, it means I can spend as many days as I want with friends with only a one-off cost.

I wouldn't be able to afford to visit all the independent theme parks on a weekly basis, but because of the Merlin Annual Pass I can visit most of the UKs best theme parks (and a bunch of midway attractions that I don't really care about)

I'm only going to visit the independent theme parks a maximum of once per year, but I'm going to visit Merlin attractions every few weeks. This means the pass has a lot of value to me.

 

[Dave]

I respect people's points but there are/were 200,000 pass holders in the UK, if Nick Varney is to be believed. There aren't 200,000 individuals on all of the enthusiast forums combined, so we aren't representative of people no longer considering a pass worth it, even at these sale prices. I believe many will not be encouraged to renew at £99 as opposed to the £78 offered last year.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

Are we aware of a drop in purchased MAP's?

They usually extend the sale most years from memory.

 

[TheMan]

Yeah Merlin have an advantage with their portfolio and its stifling creativity in the UK industry but that is not to do with the MAP

How do you think they create it? I am not even the person saying the pass isn't good value remember...

I am neither completely pro, nor anti the pass... I am capable however, of taking a step back, piecing those rather obvious parts of the puzzle together and realising what they are up to.

Captive market. Captive Money. Strangle competition.

It is a very simple business premise that Merlin are actually exceptional at rolling out, how on Earth you think you can single the Pass out as not being a huge part of that really does suggest total denial.

Why else do Nectar cards, Clubcards, Shell Cards and everything else exist?

That is one point that is completely self evident.

Replying to other points:

You are all completely demonstrating how they have, quite brilliantly, captured the market. As fellow theme park enthusiasts, if you can suggest that is good for the industry we are never going to agree.

Their false wealth position, meant they could essentially "buy" their way to the top.

Merlin are the Man City of Theme Parks and you are lapping it up without realising, or you realise and actually don't care.

I do.

 

[smudge]

I worked out last season I would have payed £1800 without a pass just on park entry and car parking (if paying full price)

That was the point I was trying to make, you wouldn't have paid that.

I also put it to people that make the "value for money" claim that most people enjoy things less when they overindulge.

Yes, you may spend money on doing things elsewhere rather than visiting attractions if there was no pass, but a pass is simply a method of luring you away from from doing that.

I should say that I have a pass (a Premium one at that) but you will never hear me say it represents good - and certainly not excellent or fantastic - value for money. It is what it is - it suits my needs, but it is still a tool of monopolisation.

I also went to Silverstone for the Formula 1 last year, but that is a once-a-year event held over a single weekend - it isn't comparable at all.

It is comparable in terms of monetary value which was my point.

Infact I also went to the f1 for the weekend, but I certainly wouldn't pay for it. I got one years unlimited access to the majority of the uk attractions for myself, my wife & son - I would not sacrifice that for 2 days of personal indulgence. (Although if I was single I may well do).

I agree that there is no way I would spend £1800 on visiting merlin attractions in a year & also completely agree that there is no way you even contemplate visiting that much if you didn't own a pass but I also find it contradicting that you own a premium pass yet don't agree that it is good value for money. What would be the reason otherwise?

I know full well that this is only a money making scheme to profit merlin, but I cant agree that it is not excellent (or even 'fantastic' value for my situation.

You are correct in also stating that is is bringing me away from spending money at other places, but for what I'd pay I'd say I get more at a merlin attraction than anywhere else. And we still do do other things, but even when we go to a country park for a day, for example, we will pay £5 parking then £15-20 on some lunch, not to mention other inevitable costs such as ice cream etc etc a trip to AT still seems a bargain.

For me personally all the holidays in the world couldn't beat the thrill of riding nemmy in the pissing rain on a cold morning in April, waking down towers street hearing spinball and screams in the distance, overlooking the towers, walking past duel hearing the b&m roar in the distance.

I would say the map is 'fantastic' value for money at almost whatever price because seeing that smile on my sons face when we are at that place is priceless.

Anyway - each to their own, but please don't accuse people who think the map is 'fantastic value' as lacking in intelligence.

 

[Dave]

TheMan they created the monopoly by taking a company that had a lot of midway attractions and Lego parks and buying out a company that had a bunch of theme parks and a couple of midways.

Ironically it was the company that was bought-out that had the annual pass already, not the aggressive monopoly seeker

 

[Scott]

Merlin kinda inherited the parks from Tussauds though didn't they? All they have done is build up a portfolio of midway attractions to go alongside the parks in order to create a pass which is amazing value for money.

The passes themselves are not killing the industry. Merlin aren't either. Yes they practically have a monopoly, but independent parks still pull in crowds despite the fact that the MAP exists. The Merlin parks are (arguably) the only ones to have a national pull, and that means that the MAP is very useful - particularly when the midway's are included which are spread out across the country. Most of the other parks have a smaller catchment area and thus aren't always in direct competition with MAP users.

They haven't 'captured' the market and blindly led us all to supporting their monopoly. They own the best theme parks in the UK and as enthusiasts we like to visit them. I don't really see why the MAP is killing the industry, if anything it is helping it by encouraging more people to be engaged with theme parks. Maybe after visiting a few places on the MAP, some people might be encouraged to try other parks?

 

[GAGrathea]

We want to go to certain theme parks, multiple times a year: specifically Alton Towers but also Thorpe Park, and Chessington. If nothing else because these parks do good things and offer different experiences at different points in the year.

By happy coincidence, there's a pass which allows us to do this for a price which is reasonable.

Also, unlike other tourist attractions such as major football stadiums, the food available is actually very reasonably priced compared to eating out somewhere (moreso with the discount we're given), so we're more than happy to pay for that.

That's it. There are no spreadsheets, no stocks and shares we're worrying about, we're consumers and there's a product which suits us to a tee.

Again, most of us who bought Freedom Passes this year happily spent £50 or more on mazes in previous years. Because they're a quality product which we enjoy.

There is nothing more to it.

 

[Tom]

I'm on wind down mode and a phone now but I'll just say I did say my pass suits my needs. It's adequate/acceptable to me otherwise I wouldn't have bought it but I find it difficult to describe it too positively when I know what sort of tool the product is used for by the company en masse.

I fully accept that it's up to what the individual values, as Dave said. However I was trying to get people to think about why they do so and many have explained why magnificently. However others have only emphasised my point about how plans are made as a result of ownership - not passes purchased as a result of plans.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

 

[GAGrathea]

Yeah, the passes facilitate plans, because the alternative would be me not having enough money to go to all the theme park events (before we think about regular days) that I wanted to, and sitting at home bored. Or me going bankrupt from my desire to visit so much.

 

[TheMan]

However others have only emphasised my point about how plans are made as a result of ownership - not passes purchased as a result of plans.

Exactly, and myself and Tom, the two most vehemently outspoken about it, have both owned/continue to own passes.

They are a creeping giant. Clearly excellent at business and understanding how to buy loyalty. Once you have that loyalty though and a captive market, which you are, things creep up.

Do you think there would be supermarket price matches if only one existed? Of course not. It is only competition of some kind, that drives that necessity to provide value.

Imagine how many small independent shops could be open with Tesco's profits alone.

They are also in a false economic position against other parks, by having vast amounts of wealth behind them that skew the market, and enable them to create artificial value. That wont exist forever and it will re-balance.

Much of what I did in the music industry, at my own time and expense, was to assist in that exact kind of re-balance after too few, became too dominant, artificially.

The other points are a little daft though, everyone here knows they own a bit more than a sprinkling of UK theme parks and a few fish tanks.

 

[GAGrathea]

If it's going to rebalance then we've got nothing to worry about.

Awesome .

 

[smudge]

That's the thing... There will always be plans. But the alternative is not only more expensive, but less satisfying. We are consumers as mags says, we buy the product that suits us. We are not monopolised by merlin, we just choose that their 'option' is better value for us than anything else.

@theman - everything you say is correct, and I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but right now there is no denying that the map is the best value at present as far as uk attractions go.

In 100 years when merlin rule the world I will be dead, so for now I will enjoy their pass and take advantage of it as I please. If I or anyone deems their price to be excessive we will not consume.