• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Monorail Refurbishment

Thing is, running shuttle buses is definitely far more efficient given the distances involved, so you can see why they'd be reluctant to invest in the Monorail. The question arises though, do the park see the Monorail as an experience?

In my view they certainly should. Theme parks are all about escapism. As soon as you start putting people on a bus they're straight back home trying to get to work/uni/college/school on time. Yes monorails are in most cases inferior to buses in terms of operational efficiency, but in the context of a "Theme"park, they're an important way of maintaining escapism. They still feel futuristic to people today!

If I were Towers, I'd be investing heavily in the Monorail ASAP before it gets any more dilapidated. Buy some new walk-through trains with higher capacities, remove the need for driver operation completely with signalling upgrades, and make the stations feel a little more magical. Your first impression of the park shouldn't be a rear extension of a garden centre.
 
GJMarshy said:
Thing is, running shuttle buses is definitely far more efficient given the distances involved, so you can see why they'd be reluctant to invest in the Monorail. The question arises though, do the park see the Monorail as an experience?

In my view they certainly should. Theme parks are all about escapism. As soon as you start putting people on a bus they're straight back home trying to get to work/uni/college/school on time. Yes monorails are in most cases inferior to buses in terms of operational efficiency, but in the context of a "Theme"park, they're an important way of maintaining escapism. They still feel futuristic to people today!

If I were Towers, I'd be investing heavily in the Monorail ASAP before it gets any more dilapidated. Buy some new walk-through trains with higher capacities, remove the need for driver operation completely with signalling upgrades, and make the stations feel a little more magical. Your first impression of the park shouldn't be a rear extension of a garden centre.
Click to expand...
Getting on the monorail is probably my earliest memory of being at Alton Towers, and walking up to the station still gives me goosebumps! I'd love them to invest proper money into it, including making the station far more special, make it the portal to the magic of the Towers that it should be. Might be asking too much, but you're so right about the escapism part. It's absolutely part of the experience of visiting, and so unique to the UK (I think?).
 
They are spending significant investment into the Skyride, I have high hopes we could see investment into this too. You could argue that Skyride is more of an experience than this, but this is equally as much of an experience if you ask me. It all depends if the park see it that way.

That said, with Bianca at the helm and the new Merlin on the purse strings, we have the highest chance we have ever had in recent times that this will get the refurbishment it desperately needs. Rather than being mothballed. Skyride would never have got the treatment it needed had Merlin not gone private I do not believe. That attraction would be closing for it's final time right about now.
 
DistortAMG said:
They are spending significant investment into the Skyride, I have high hopes we could see investment into this too. You could argue that Skyride is more of an experience than this, but this is equally as much of an experience if you ask me. It all depends if the park see it that way.

That said, with Bianca at the helm and the new Merlin on the purse strings, we have the highest chance we have ever had in recent times that this will get the refurbishment it desperately needs. Rather than being mothballed. Skyride would never have got the treatment it needed had Merlin not gone private I do not believe. That attraction would be closing for it's final time right about now.
Click to expand...
What's your reasoning behind thinking Bianca is going to completely turn this park around? People are treating her like she's the third coming of Christ. I'm still not exactly sure what her job even entails?
 
RIPCorky said:
What's your reasoning behind thinking Bianca is going to completely turn this park around? People are treating her like she's the third coming of Christ. I'm still not exactly sure what her job even entails?
Click to expand...

I am not saying she is going to completely turn the park around, I am saying we have the highest chances under her leadership of seeing a monorail refurbishment. But, because you mention it, she is making all the right steps so far to turn the park around...not perfect by all means, nothing in life ever is, but she is certainly going in the right direction for the park, a breath of fresh air.

She seems very receptive to guest feedback, very open to criticism and what the park are doing behind the scenes and why. She seems very focused on guest experiences and doing the best for the guest. During her short tenure we have gained decent investments into starting to paint and clean the park, something neglected for years, we have have started to see new pieces of theming added to the park with previous mothballed things like the rapids waterfalls and Wickermans flames turned back on. We have also seen Horizon postponed with a decent, fully themed flat ride to be installed into FV for next year...aka the correct move to help move the park forward properly. We've seen the steady introduction more themed foods across the park with the addition of decent looking, long term structures like the new F&B unit between GW and FV. Non of this would have happened before, well there is no speculation because it did not happen.

I've been fair, tried to highlight things that she specifically would have had chance to influence and change in her tenure. Non of this is subjective or opinion pieces either, these are all objective improvements made to the guest experience. We are far from the end, that is normal, Rome was not built in a day but it is clear the ship is slowly being turned into the right direction. The ship still has to sail in that direction once turned, but it is clear we are turning course.

We then have the final but huge elephant in the room, the parks other major pierce of transport infrastructure is currently undergoing a huge multi million pound refurbishment, again, something that needed doing years ago but was never done. Perfectly in line with Merlin running attractions into the ground before removing them, a staple of their modus operandi from decades gone by. This seems to have changed for the better now, we have huge evidence to support this. So if Bianca wants the monorail done, I am confident she can get it done. Based on her focus on guest experiences and improving them, I am also confident she can not only get it done, but will want it done.



I stand by what I said, we have the highest chance now than we have ever had in seeing the Monorail get the work it needs, for all of the above mentioned reasons.
 
Last edited:
I too hope she can! But worth remembering individuals rarely hold that much power. It’ll be a group decision amongst board. She can propose what she likes, but a majority have to agree to it to make it a credible decision.

It’s less about the individual running the park that matters, but the company they keep, and indeed the company in general.

Obviously it’s not quite the same, but having worked on committees in various sectors, getting decisions like those made is far more difficult that it might first appear. The biggest hurdle is to convince everyone else your plan is right before asking the question. I’d imagine should she be looking to invest in the monorail that’s exactly what she’ll be doing, however that takes valuable time and effort, that may possibly be better spent on other things.

It’s all a question of priorities.
 
GJMarshy said:
I too hope she can! But worth remembering individuals rarely hold that much power. It’ll be a group decision amongst board. She can propose what she likes, but a majority have to agree to it to make it a credible decision.

It’s less about the individual running the park that matters, but the company they keep, and indeed the company in general.

Obviously it’s not quite the same, but having worked on committees in various sectors, getting decisions like those made is far more difficult that it might first appear. The biggest hurdle is to convince everyone else your plan is right before asking the question. I’d imagine should she be looking to invest in the monorail that’s exactly what she’ll be doing, however that takes valuable time and effort, that may possibly be better spent on other things.

It’s all a question of priorities.
Click to expand...

I agree, but she can be the push and the drive to sell the idea to the board, something she seems VERY talented at doing from her vast experience across multiple parks / groups / countries. Of course it will always be a group decision, but this is almost always spearheaded and pushed to boards by a small group or an individual.

The biggest clue more than anything is the fact Skyride is getting a MAJOR refurbishment, this never would have happened under old Merlin.

We have the highest chance now than we've had in 20 years, I have never once said it WILL happen, just we have the highest chance. The right people are in the right places right now to make it happen.
 
Last edited:
GJMarshy said:
Thing is, running shuttle buses is definitely far more efficient given the distances involved, so you can see why they'd be reluctant to invest in the Monorail. The question arises though, do the park see the Monorail as an experience?

In my view they certainly should. Theme parks are all about escapism. As soon as you start putting people on a bus they're straight back home trying to get to work/uni/college/school on time. Yes monorails are in most cases inferior to buses in terms of operational efficiency, but in the context of a "Theme"park, they're an important way of maintaining escapism. They still feel futuristic to people today!

If I were Towers, I'd be investing heavily in the Monorail ASAP before it gets any more dilapidated. Buy some new walk-through trains with higher capacities, remove the need for driver operation completely with signalling upgrades, and make the stations feel a little more magical. Your first impression of the park shouldn't be a rear extension of a garden centre.
Click to expand...
I would argue that shuttle busses probably wouldn't work, as the traffic isn't the best currently now lest add 10 or so busses traveling throughout the carparks, and that isn't really considering there isn't really a good route
 
DistortAMG said:
The biggest clue more than anything is the fact Skyride is getting a MAJOR refurbishment, this never would have happened under old Merlin.
Click to expand...
The skyride is being refurbished, extremely slowly...lets face it, all this work could have been done in 2022, or 2023, in a single season.
We don't know what would have happened under old Merlin, we can only give a personal opinion.
They couldn't just walk away from the skyride, due to accessibility issues and the withdrawal of access with the rides closure.
Three different disability groups have told me so.
So it must be true.
Hence the big dodgy legalese sign by the skyride.
Back on topic, the monorail is both a decent attraction in its own right, and a mobility aid.
But they could get rid of it far easier with a land train service, and more disabled parking by the entrance(s).
 
RIPCorky said:
What's your reasoning behind thinking Bianca is going to completely turn this park around? People are treating her like she's the third coming of Christ. I'm still not exactly sure what her job even entails?
Click to expand...
I think that Bianca has performed her PR duties exceptionally well. She has put her face on video and mad a lot of statements. Ultimately she has created a perception of "doing a great job".

The fact is that Towers is/ was run down. I never put isolated maintenance requirements down to management, however, the number of issues over the last few season has been notable and as such suggests a lock of proper operational/ mechanical management. The park was (and sort of still is) in a bit of a state. The majority of the big projects attributed to her (Hex, Nemesis, Skyride etc.) re not choices as such, they are things that have had to happen with the only real alternatives being removal.

I would suggest that Bianca has done nothing of note so far, other than creatively spin some situations to make them seem like positives. If anything, Arguably the biggest decision Bianca has made has been to remove the Retro Squad - so reducing ride availability. I am not saying that she is or isn't doing a good job (I honestly have no clue to the extent of her role), I am just suggesting it is far to early to make any assumptions - give t a couple of years and we will see where the park is.
 
Proper investment for me would be getting it run on solar power if not all ready. Two huge roofs that can give you a little tipple of the good sun stuff.

The trains look awful now. I've not been inside one for a few years so dunno the state, but last time it was looking a little worn out.

Shuttle buses are a good idea. The amount needed to run effectively, plus getting qualified drivers would not be worth it for the park in my eyes. You would be aswell just investing in the monorail. Get up to modern standards. I would never go full autonomous. Just be too dangerous.
 
Slugjc said:
Shuttle buses are a good idea. The amount needed to run effectively, plus getting qualified drivers would not be worth it for the park in my eyes. You would be aswell just investing in the monorail
Click to expand...

Shuttle busses make the most economic sense. The completely refurbish the monorail you are effectively paying for a new E-ticket ride (£10m-ish). To implement a shuttle bus system using 2 busses (airport apron style) and build dedicated bus lanes, you are looking at well under £1m (apron style buses are 200k each, 200k for ground works). It is not a business decision I would want to make - people love the smelly, dirty, inefficient monorail!

Unquestionably, busses would be substantially cheaper and offer far more flexibility. The question would be, would removing the monorail substantially devalue the perceived value of Towers? The monorail does have the 'Disney effect' - this just isn't transport, it's a Monorail experience.
 
But the infrastructure of the park is not set up for buses. On a busy day when cars are queued or crawling along the entrance road to get parked the buses ferrying people between the hotels/car parks and entrance would be stuck in that traffic and vice versa at the end of the day.

You can allocate a lane for buses only, but that just squeezes the cars into one lane and causes mayhem (just as it did for the first day of the run event last November as an example).

Therefore when factoring in buses it’s not just the buses themselves, but the significant road improvements/expansions that would need to come in with it.

At this point the business case just stacks towards investing in the monorail, especially when you include the value of the ‘experience’ element that the monorail brings over buses.
 
AT86 said:
Therefore when factoring in buses it’s not just the buses themselves, but the significant road improvements/expansions that would need to come in with it.
Click to expand...
I don't think the road improvements would need to be as significant as you think. They could re-route existing traffic quite easily without causing more congestion and utilising the now vacant monorail footprint to build bus-ways. If done right, they could simply use a single track with passing places to minimise costs.

Implementing busses would be substantially cheaper than a full refurb of the monorail - even when you include groundworks. The question for Towers would be -'is the replacement of the monorail with busses substantially devaluing the product'?

1. With the removal of the monorail, turn that track into a paved bus-way. Reroute the exit from the lower carpark as shown
1711278230291.png

2. Rework the exit from the car park as shown. There is an existing road which could be used. The bus lane would take the existing path as shown.
1711278523020.png
3. Use the existing road (shown) as a bus lane. After demolition of the monorail, create a paved lane to the entrance as shown.
1711278612365.png
 

Attachments

  • 1711277989112.png
    1711277989112.png
    525.6 KB · Views: 14
RIPCorky said:
What's your reasoning behind thinking Bianca is going to completely turn this park around? People are treating her like she's the third coming of Christ. I'm still not exactly sure what her job even entails?
Click to expand...
I think it's fair to give her the props for what she's been overseeing thus far. Her background is solid and that shines through in how the park is now operating IMO, especially knowing there's still so much more to come down the pipeline with Skyride, Hex, Horizon, Ocean, further refurbishments, Scarefest etc. I haven't even been since after Smiler opened and it feels to me like a different park. After years of the park stagnating a tad, I think it's great to see people celebrating those at the park who now genuinely want the place to flourish - it's such a special, unique place so it deserves passionate, experienced management.
 
Any other alternative form of transport to replace the monorail would require extensive infrastructure and new traffic controls. We don't exactly know what the monorail needs, but the infrastructure is there, and it just needs the money to keep it going. It's likely why Skyride is receiving £millions and not being removed, as in the long run, they would have to look at an alternative form of transport that would likely cost more/become more complicated than refurbishing Skyride.

RE: Bianca. What sets her apart from her predecessors is that she has openly spoken publicly about the park and not hidden in an office. She has openly acknowledged the failings of the resort and stated she seeks to improve things. The Skyride will be a prime example of her/the new management at Towers aiming to improve infrastructure/the guest experience. We can only speculate what 'old Merlin' would have done, although I suspect the Skyride would have remained SBNO indefinitely. At least there is a sign that Towers/Merlin will spend quite a bit to keep it running in the future, and if so, that gives hope for the monorail/Towers Street/other sections of resort infrastructure.

The monorail has plodded along for years, so it's clear that old and maybe new management are not so keen on removing it.

In the wider context of the resort/new management, etc., it will take a few seasons for us to notice whether things are changing for the better or not. Let's not forget there are 10-15 years of neglect to work through. Many parts of the resort have been crumbling away for years. 'Fixing' Alton Towers was never going to be an overnight job.
 
cloudburster said:
how the park is now operating IMO
Click to expand...
The park has not been operating well.

cloudburster said:
Skyride, Hex
Click to expand...
These are only beig done because they were both broken beyond reasonable repair. The only other option would be for them to be removed.
cloudburster said:
Horizon, Ocean
Click to expand...
Project Horizon is a major Capex project and, I am sure, has been in progress for many years. I would suggest Bianca's influence on that is limited.
Project Ocean is a welcome addition. I will remind you, however, it is a long way off and 3 flat rides have been removed to make way for one.
cloudburster said:
I haven't even been since after Smiler opened and it feels to me like a different park.
Click to expand...
Smiler opened over 10 years ago. A lot has changed in 10 years, very little of it has been down to our Bianca.
 
To be fair the retro squad have been replaced by 2 rides - Nemesis Sub Terra and Project Ocean, neither of those two rides were there when the retro squad were brought in so it’s only fair to count both of them, you’ve also got a new ride in Curse albeit one which is a partial refurb of an existing one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top