Nemesis: General Discussion

JAperson

TS Member
Finally; while I know it might be controversial, I’d get IMAScore in to remaster the soundtrack. I wouldn’t replace it per se, but I’d get IMAScore to do something like what they did to Colossus and Nemesis Inferno’s tracks at Thorpe a few years back, where they kept many of the iconic melodies from the original tracks, but remastered them to be longer tracks with a bit more to them, and changed the more minor parts of the track. I really like what they did at Thorpe, and I think they could do a lot with Nemesis’ track!
I'm sorry @Matt N but I have to disagree. The audio for nemesis is brilliant. It captures the theme of the ride and the atmosphere while you queue. You imply it needs 'more to it' and I can't disagree more. It sounds completely different at 0:30 than it does at 5:08. It's already 29:17. I could see why someone wouldn't like it put I think it's absolutely perfect and I really don't want them messing around with it.
I’d also get an onboard soundtrack on there; if Hulk is anything to go by, it could really enhance the experience!
This would be pretty cool especially if the choose the right parts of the original track.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
I'm sorry @Matt N but I have to disagree. The audio for nemesis is brilliant. It captures the theme of the ride and the atmosphere while you queue. You imply it needs 'more to it' and I can't disagree more. It sounds completely different at 0:30 than it does at 5:08. It's already 29:17. I could see why someone wouldn't like it put I think it's absolutely perfect and I really don't want them messing around with it.

This would be pretty cool especially if the choose the right parts of the original track.
No need to apologise! I knew it would be a controversial choice before posting!

In terms of why I'd do it; as much as I like Nemesis' audio now, I do really like IMAScore's work, and based on some of what they've done for Merlin alone, I think they could do an excellent job with Nemesis!
 

geo4chg

TS Member
In terms of stuff I’d personally do to Nemesis if it were to get a hefty refurbishment; I’d actually do quite a bit.

In terms of the track and train; I’d mostly keep the layout and trains the same, although I’d reprofile some of the more jarring sections of the layout (I’m thinking the two corkscrews and the zero-g roll here) to induce less headbanging and flow a bit more smoothly.

Most of my refurbishment ideas would be in terms of theming. What I’d personally do is capitalise on and build upon the theme in areas they perhaps weren’t able to to quite the same extent in 1994, as well as enhance areas of it.
  • Firstly, I’d do some enhancements to the station, giving the interior a more ambient, themed look to reflect you being inside the monster itself. I’d put some smells, ambient lighting and possibly some smoke in here, like in Wicker Man’s station.
  • Then, I’d possibly put some little thematic details around the layout, as well as possibly some special effects; maybe some fire would work? I reckon some smoke/mist around the layout, in some of the trenches, would work a treat too.
  • I’d also get an onboard soundtrack on there; if Hulk is anything to go by, it could really enhance the experience!
  • Finally; while I know it might be controversial, I’d get IMAScore in to remaster the soundtrack. I wouldn’t replace it per se, but I’d get IMAScore to do something like what they did to Colossus and Nemesis Inferno’s tracks at Thorpe a few years back, where they kept many of the iconic melodies from the original tracks, but remastered them to be longer tracks with a bit more to them, and changed the more minor parts of the track. I really like what they did at Thorpe, and I think they could do a lot with Nemesis’ track!

I just can't see them doing anything like this. Nemesis is too iconic, too well loved to make any changes to the track. For it's intensity, Nemesis is one of the least headbang-y roller coasters out there, and the risk they run is that people will say it isn't as good as it used to be. When I rode it in July I noticed a slight rattle around some of the elements that didn't used to be there but it was still a smooth ride, especially considering its age and intensity.

I would also refrain from adding anything like smoke effects or fire or anything else that alter it from the ride people love. Nemesis is such a good ride it doesn't need any gimmicks or effects. The only re-theming I'd do is spruce up the station interior a little, maybe some better lighting - but again, no need for smoke or smells or anything else.

I do like the idea of onboard soundtrack - but the original is just fine the way it is, no need for a remix or remaster. When you walk into Forbidden Valley and the Nemesis music kicks in it is still a cut above anything else in the park, no need to mess with it.
 

pluk

TS Member
!

In terms of why I'd do it; as much as I like Nemesis' audio now, I do really like IMAScore's work, and based on some of what they've done for Merlin alone, I think they could do an excellent job with Nemesis!

Name me one ride soundtrack which has been redone by IMA that is actually an improvement on the original...

This obsession with Nemesis coming to the end of its life has been going on for years already for some reason. Has there been anything to suggest that's actually the case now?
 
Of course musical taste is subjective, but I feel I could make a strong argument that the current Nemesis score is better than anything IMA could do. They really tend to just go for the jugular in terms of style and arrangement, typically opting to go maximal, full EDM. This can work in small doses, and effectively for a ride like The Smiler, but the Nemesis score has a lot of different shades. As well as the menacing, angular main theme, there are sections that are more foreboding and clearly composed to inspire awe, and maybe even sympathy with the monster.
 

JAperson

TS Member
Of course musical taste is subjective, but I feel I could make a strong argument that the current Nemesis score is better than anything IMA could do. They really tend to just go for the jugular in terms of style and arrangement, typically opting to go maximal, full EDM. This can work in small doses, and effectively for a ride like The Smiler, but the Nemesis score has a lot of different shades. As well as the menacing, angular main theme, there are sections that are more foreboding and clearly composed to inspire awe, and maybe even sympathy with the monster.
I have to agree! As much as I like some of what IMAscore has done. Particularly Wicker Man and the Smiler I'm not sure they should do all the music for Alton Towers. I can't hurt to have a bit of variety and I'd personally like the next ride to have music done by someone else just for a change.

Nemesis' music has got to be one of the greatest theme park audio tracks anywhere. Along with Oblivion, Helix and the original Vampire soundtrack at Chessington.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Name me one ride soundtrack which has been redone by IMA that is actually an improvement on the original...
I think music is very much a matter of opinion myself.

In terms of naming a ride track that IMA did that I feel was an improvement; I’d personally say that Nemesis Inferno at Thorpe was a big improvement (particularly the Inferno Reigns track when compared to the original theme tune), and I’d also say they did a great job with Colossus as well, although I rather liked Colossus’ original score, so I’m unsure if the improvement is as profound. I do absolutely love both Nemesis Inferno and Colossus’ new IMAScore soundtracks, though!

Admittedly, I think Nemesis has a strong soundtrack to begin with, and it’s of course very iconic, so it isn’t something they should prioritise or place emphasis on doing by any means, but I do think IMAScore could do a good job with it. If they did a soundtrack in the same vein as Nemesis Inferno & Colossus’ remastered ones and kept the main melodies in while reworking some of the minor bits, then I think they could do a great job myself!

I’m sorry if I’ve infuriated anyone here, though; I guess I might be a little bit biased, as I love IMAScore…
 
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Matt.GC

TS Member
I love the Nemesis music (yes @Rick it still blast out as soon as you enter FB and prominently by the ride and is as awesome as it ever was), one of the best tracks on park. The last thing Merlin need to focus on is tinkering yet again with music, one of the few things that isn't wrong with their parks.

If any parts of layout will be changed, it'll be very slight and not noticeable to most guests for foundation and maintenance reasons only. No need to change any other element of it. Why would anyone want to tone Nemesis down? Would defeat the point in the ride and it's original design.

A retrack, fix the monster theming and a system installed to return the red water would be a starting place for me. I want to see some work done on the pit by removing some of the tatty weeds so you can see the theming by the turnaround and the bus once more. A general clean and maintenance around the pit, station, queue line etc and I'm happy. No need to reinvent the wheel with Nemesis otherwise they might as well just rip it out and chuck something cheap it it's place. It needs restoration not changing.
 

pluk

TS Member
I think music is very much a matter of opinion myself.

In terms of naming a ride track that IMA did that I feel was an improvement; I’d personally say that Nemesis Inferno at Thorpe was a big improvement (particularly the Inferno Reigns track when compared to the original theme tune), and I’d also say they did a great job with Colossus as well, although I rather liked Colossus’ original score, so I’m unsure if the improvement is as profound.

Well, of course music is completely subjective, but I couldn't agree less. The new NI theme is utterly soulless and bland, its only redeeming feature is the glockenspiel section taken from the original. The same goes for Colossus, but to a lesser extent, largely because more of the original survives.
 

Matt N

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Well, of course music is completely subjective, but I couldn't agree less. The new NI theme is utterly soulless and bland, its only redeeming feature is the glockenspiel section taken from the original. The same goes for Colossus, but to a lesser extent, largely because more of the original survives.
Each to their own, I guess!

I personally love those two tracks, but I do rather like the vast majority of IMAScore's work, so maybe I just like their style more than most? I don't really know enough about music and sound techniques to go much more in depth than that... I guess I might have a different opinion if I was more of a music/sound geek.
 

Heidi

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Wicker Man
Slightly off topic but speaking of soundtracks i realised recently the opening of Eyeless by Slipknot reminds me of the Oblivion soundtrack and wanted to see if anyone else agreed haha
 

geo4chg

TS Member
I love the Nemesis music (yes @Rick it still blast out as soon as you enter FB and prominently by the ride and is as awesome as it ever was), one of the best tracks on park. The last thing Merlin need to focus on is tinkering yet again with music, one of the few things that isn't wrong with their parks.

If any parts of layout will be changed, it'll be very slight and not noticeable to most guests for foundation and maintenance reasons only. No need to change any other element of it. Why would anyone want to tone Nemesis down? Would defeat the point in the ride and it's original design.

A retrack, fix the monster theming and a system installed to return the red water would be a starting place for me. I want to see some work done on the pit by removing some of the tatty weeds so you can see the theming by the turnaround and the bus once more. A general clean and maintenance around the pit, station, queue line etc and I'm happy. No need to reinvent the wheel with Nemesis otherwise they might as well just rip it out and chuck something cheap it it's place. It needs restoration not changing.

My 7 year-old is fascinated by the music around the park and loves how as far as Sub-Terra they play the Gloomy Woods music and then as you turn the corner and the Nemesis bridge comes into view the main Nemesis track kicks in, just as you start to get a glimpse of the ride. He was very annoyed when we stopped for coffee that in the seating area you can't hear Nemesis due to Funk'n'Fly, though hopefully that's just temporary.

Agreed on the layout and theming. The less changed the better really. I suppose a full retrack, with replacement footers etc, would require a lot of clearance of the planting that has grown in the pit to allow for machinery etc - not quite back to 1994 levels but would be a lot less "green" that it is now.
 

Jb85

TS Member
Name me one ride soundtrack which has been redone by IMA that is actually an improvement on the original...

This obsession with Nemesis coming to the end of its life has been going on for years already for some reason. Has there been anything to suggest that's actually the case now?

Well - I think basic logic that suggests it’s in its end of life cycle in its current form.

Even if these things were designed to run for 40 years - were already 27 years into that. And let’s not forget there must be some significant stress on the supports etc given how it’s been built.

I don’t for one think it will be removed - but I can see a full refurb, new trains, software, re- tracking, etc within the next 3-5 years to ensure that it lives on into its 50’s
 

D4n

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Taron
Corkscrew lasted 28 years.
Grand National and Big Dipper are about a century old.
Dragon Challenge lasted for decades, operating 12 hours days all year long, and wasn't particularly knackered when it closed down.

Why does logic dictate that Nemesis is at the end of its life cycle? It simply isn't.
 

Skyscraper

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Nemesis
Corkscrew lasted 28 years.
Grand National and Big Dipper are about a century old.
Dragon Challenge lasted for decades, operating 12 hours days all year long, and wasn't particularly knackered when it closed down.

Why does logic dictate that Nemesis is at the end of its life cycle? It simply isn't.
I've got a feeling it could be to do with the location; think the supports may need re-setting into the ground.
 

TheAverageNerd

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Taron
I've heard rumblings (so obviously these may be false) that the supports and foundation structure for the loop are really struggling and have been for the last couple of seasons. There has been some work done to this area in the past if I'm not mistaken?

I think it's a bit silly to compare Nemesis to the likes of Corkscrew and a couple of woodies at BPB personally. Both woodies you mentioned have been re-tracked extensively over their lifetimes, something that all woodies undergo a lot quicker than steel coasters. Nemesis is only a year or so younger than Corkscrew was when it closed, and it has a hell of a lot more stress exerted on the track than Corkscrew ever did. I would say that the ride is nearing the end of it's natural operating life. I fully expect it to use the exact trains that are currently on it, and it may not even be a full re-track. All we can do is speculate until something happens, but I strongly believe that something is due to happen within the next couple of seasons. I guess we shall have to see.
 

Ben

TS Founding Member
Favourite Ride
Your Dad
I remember, somewhere sensible, hearing that if Nemesis does ever reach "end of functional life" then Merlin will do pretty much everything within their power to keep it, with suggestion the budget available could cover a full replacement.

Nemesis is as iconic as the park now, while corkscrew in the 80s made Towers a "theme park", Nemesis was the one that made international fame and started* the SW series which has kept the park going since the 90s, were into its 4th decade.
Id put money on Oblivion, Rita and 13 all leaving before nemesis.

Also, the score is great, please keep imascore away....builds to generic crescendo.


* - yes it wasn't the first SW, but the first constructed
 

MakoMania

TS Member
Nick Varney did say at the Nemesis 21 event in 2015 that he could not imagine Alton Towers without Nemesis. I am sure they’ll do whatever is required to keep the ride, whenever that may be necessary.
 

rob666

TS Member
If there were problems with the loop foundations a couple of years ago, then they would have been fixed a couple of years ago.
They would not have let the ride run for two years with substandard supports that were failing.
Liability issues on a very large scale if a failure occurred with that knowledge.
We have heard the same tales, every year, for a decade.
Best mates mum cuts the hair of one of the engineers...he said it was closing for good.
That was the tale about eight years ago.
Still open.
Bits get hairline cracks, they get xray checked and repaired.
Problems with individual supports and footers...likewise.
Does anyone have a single shred of actual evidence regarding upcoming closure for essential repairs?
If so, would they like to share it?
 
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