New UK emergency alert system discussion

[jon81uk]

This alert system is the equivalent to someone shouting from a phone mast to all nearby phones that can hear. A town crier doesn’t need your details to be able to shout a message at you. There is no privacy issue. With the town crier if you don’t want to hear you put your fingers in your ears.

On iPhone if you really want to put your fingers in your ears then to turn off the sliders they are at the very bottom of the notifications page

 

[rob666]

This is a system used by governments in countries around the world. The UK is simply catching up, and with things like extreme weather becoming more common, and in the wake of previous terrorist incidents and disasters such as Grenfell, this alert system has the potential to do more good than harm.

As far as factual evidence goes, there is no data collection, there is no database, and none of your information is taken for this system to operate. It's designed to send information, not collect it. Using the internet, going on social media, and even using these forums, is far more damaging to your personal data than the emergency alert system will ever be.

If you're not happy with the emergency alert system (can't say I understand why), you can opt-out, it's there in black and white on the UK Gov website:


...and if you're really paranoid about your personal data, then perhaps cease all ties with your electronic devices and the internet, maybe quit your job, don't speak to anyone, ditch your car, go live in the wilderness, find a cave, then all your personal information is safe and sound.

The cave next door to mine is currently vacant.

 

[Dave]

The best evidence that this is not a privacy issue is none of the respected independent privacy watchdogs are concerned.

If they are comfortable then I respect that over conspiracy theories.

 

[Rick]

As @jon81uk said, this is the digital equivalent of someone shouting at you through a traffic cone.

@RyanUK if you have an iPhone, Apple already know more about you than you do.

Alton Towers need to implement this so @Ethan can be notified when The Smiler has a train added/taken off the circuit to know how many trains they're currently running.

History would suggest that they don't always know themselves ...

 

[Alsty]

Through the non existent data base of phones that were attached to masts at that time - but that has to have the supposition that those masts are still operational to send a signal. In a suspected terror attack all of the mast signals will be cut off. In a major catastrophe the mast infrastructure will be rendered powerless

Do you use a mobile phone? I hate to break bad news for you but your device already appears in the database for the cell you're connected to right now. It also appears in cells you've been connected to in the past.

You've raised the argument about mast signals being cut in an attack before. The cellular network already has the means to identity priority traffic. For example if a network is saturated then it will disconnect existing calls to facilitate a new 999 call. The network could conceivable disconnect all traffic except the emergency calls and emergency alerts if it wished to. The system is more sophisticated than somebody pulling a plug out the wall.

 

[Rob]

I wondered how on earth this thread had 3 pages of discussion in such a short space of time. Turns out it is really rather hilarious!

As others have said, if you have privacy concerns about an emergency alert system that does not use or hold any of your personal data, then you really should completely stop using mobile phones and the internet completely.

I quite like the idea of an alert that could potentially help save my life.

 

[Skyscraper]

There is no database of telephone numbers for the alert system to work, the cell site is simply instructed to broadcast a push message with no acknowledgement of receipt from the mobile devices.

I thought you had to acknowledge the alert before you can use your phone as normal again?

 

[Rick]

I thought you had to acknowledge the alert before you can use your phone as normal again?

You acknowledge the alert but your device doesn't acknowledge receipt or reading of the alert to the infrastructure that broadcast it. It's "fire and forget" technology, hence the test.

 

[Alsty]

Craig is referring to an acknowledgment from the device itself to the cell network, like an ACK in networking parlance.

 

[Ethan]

Alton Towers need to implement this so @Ethan can be notified when The Smiler has a train added/taken off the circuit to know how many trains they're currently running.

You're not wrong. Operations are the most exciting bit finding out how efficient rides are on a given day. It's good to have an idea of how many riders per hour they're getting through and therefore determine how busy each ride is. For example based on throughputs I've figured out that a 70 min queue for Rita is equivalent to a 51 min queue for Wicker (if it were on 3 trains)

 

[DavidRock]

Having been put of tje localised test a while back I can confirm that the warning tone made me jump the 1st time the push notification was received.

As mentioned above some people will like it and some people won't. Each to their own. Also cell tower tracing is also used when a person goes missing. The police can contact the phone provider and find out which cell the last signal was pinged off possibly narrowing a search area.

I'm just more prepared for the warning tone the 2nd time around this time.

 

[rob666]

The three minute warning siren tests used to scare the crap out of me in the sixties and seventies...you were never quite sure.

 

[Joel]

The lack of EAS alerts in the UK is frankly still astonishing to me, and I’m glad they are finally rolling it out here.

Having experienced EAS alerts in the USA first hand in terrifying circumstances, I find it an incredibly reassuring and important system for the communication of critical information to help save my life, or that of others around me.

I’m disappointed that so many people are spreading misleading information to disable the alerts for many reasons, but it is their prerogative to do so I guess.

I look forward to the inevitable complaints again when people say they didn’t receive an alert about a serious situation around them affecting them, and others did, with the inevitable cries of unfair and select distribution of information as second class citizens

The level of intelligence shown by people in reaction to the announcement is also astonishing to me, especially when seemingly most people haven’t attempted to research sound information on how the system works - it is probably one of the most privacy driven and respecting mass communication systems I am aware of in my life.

 

[RyanUK]

Well, a generalised response here - I can see why some people might not want to opt out. But surely it would be nice to be given the option? Every person in this country with a working mobile phone seriously doesn’t need to test this - remember it’s our government we’re talking about here and although it’s better than it was under Boris, it’s still a bit shaky. Vaccines for Covid weren’t mandatory, nor should this be.

 

[rob666]

Mobile phones are not mandatory.
Never have been.
When they become compulsory, I will move caves and not register my new address.

 

[Craig]

Well, a generalised response here - I can see why some people might not want to opt out. But surely it would be nice to be given the option? Every person in this country with a working mobile phone seriously doesn’t need to test this - remember it’s our government we’re talking about here and although it’s better than it was under Boris, it’s still a bit shaky. Vaccines for Covid weren’t mandatory, nor should this be.

Again, you do have the option without risking your privacy by having an opt out database... turn the alerts off in notifications, then you'll never get them.

This nationwide test is also an opportunity to raise awareness of how the alert behaves on people's phones and how it will sound so that people can be aware of it in future. As mentioned, there are strict rules on the threshold for these alerts being met. The response organisations responsible for sending them will be fully aware that every message needs to be of worth to the public, else they will switch them off. I can't see this being overused or used inappropriately as a result. Mandatory vaccinations have zero relevance to a one way information service used for emergencies, and we have a Covid topic for further discussion on that (although a LOT has been said in the past about that anyway!).

 

[RyanUK]

I have, and…?

Already done months ago. I even have the Covid settings turned off. Don’t need anyone interfering in my phone.

@Craig Here’s me previously replying to others saying that I have the settings turned off. However, some seem to think that with these settings turned off, you might still get an alert and be involved in the test.

Mobile phones are not mandatory.
Never have been.

Read again - when did I imply phones aren’t mandatory? I didn’t.

Vaccines for Covid weren’t mandatory, nor should this be.

 

[Craig]

@Craig Heres me previously replying to others saying that I have the settings turned off. However, some seem to think that with these settings turned off, you might still get an alert and be involved in the test.

Who seems to think though? If it's just what you've heard, it's incorrect. If you have emergency alerts switched off, you won't receive them. That's as per government advice and within the technical specifications set by various standardisation organisations such as ETSI in Europe:

Read again - when did I imply phones aren’t mandatory? I didn’t.

The point @rob666 is making is that the comparison that mandatory vaccinations aren't equivalent to mandatory notifications on a mobile phone (which as I've explained now, they aren't), as mobile phones are not mandatory to own.

 

[RyanUK]

On Sunday night you replied to me basically saying that I can’t opt out. And have reiterated that once or twice since. Look at it however you like, but if those settings are turned off on my phone, which they are, then I am opted out. At a network level I’m still in, but personally, no.

 

[Craig]

On Sunday night you replied to me basically saying that I can’t opt out. And have reiterated that once or twice since. Look at it however you like, but if those settings are turned off on my phone, which they are, then I am opted out. At a network level I’m still in, but personally, no.

And you'll note in my reply that I said exactly that. I was referring to "opting out" as though people wanted a database for that purpose. My full explanation was:

You can't "opt out" precisely for privacy purposes. There's no database of people to send the alerts to, it's cell broadcast technology that's used to send the alert to all devices attached to the network with no knowledge of who each individual subscriber is or acknowledgement the message has been received. It's the same reason you receive those emergency alerts on your UK phone in other countries such as the US. It's also why this test is needed, as with no confirmation of receipt, the only way to verify they're being received is by having a sample cross section of the population signed up to provide confirmation and feedback that they received the alert.

So that emergency alerts option on your phone doesn't stop you from actually receiving the alert, but does stop the phone from processing the cell broadcast message as an alert to you. Basically a do not disturb specifically for emergency alerts.