Park Audio, Lighting and Everything Geeky

[Dave]

Just like Electril Bill has said many times that you need proper scenic artists and lighting designers to properly do things on rides. The same goes with audio too. The acoustics of buildings like the one Hex is in, are very complex. They audio system needs to be set up properly by a proper sound engineer who takes into account the acoustics of the space to tune the system. Lots of complex maths and equations are involved but it is an essential process to get the sound correct for the specific space. You simply cannot just place speakers any where and hope for the best. You also cannot just swap a speaker for a different one in the same place and expect to get similar results.

Hex had sound engineers come in for the new speaker system. It wasn't just plonked in by the park.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

To be honest, I don't really care about what brand speakers there are as long as the audio sounds nice in that environment and having the audio on a surround sound system when they want it to be immersive.

 

[DiogoJ42]

To be honest, I don't really care about what brand speakers there are as long as the audio sounds nice in that environment and having the audio on a surround sound system when they want it to be immersive.

As the saying goes, "right tool for the right job".

And one thing is certain: Merlin definately has some right tools.

 

[Alex2020]

The narrator throughout Hex has always had quite a lot of low end to his voice. Bose had it sounding spot on. I bet they have skimped on the sub woofer power. Seeing as they cost the most money.

The Bose system in Hex was spot on. The right speakers for the job were used but as with everything nowadays when Alton had the audio system replaced they went with a cheaper solution rather than getting Bose back in to replace what they already had. I wonder what model Ohm subs they're using in there now.

 

[Dave]

The Bose system in Hex was spot on. The right speakers for the job were used but as with everything nowadays when Alton had the audio system replaced they went with a cheaper solution rather than getting Bose back in to replace what they already had. I wonder what model Ohm subs they're using in there now.

I love a good Merlin slagging match but the speaker change had nothing to do with cost, Towers preferred Ohm.

A lot of folk dislike Bose, personally I think their headphones are great but their speakers are overpriced for what you get.

 

[Alex2020]

I love a good Merlin slagging match but the speaker change had nothing to do with cost, Towers preferred Ohm.

A lot of folk dislike Bose, personally I think their headphones are great but their speakers are overpriced for what you get.

The Bose system they had in Hex didn't need replacing in my opinion, they didn't need to spend any money replacing it. It had been in there for 16 years and was still going strong so is that not a testament to its quality? I just think it was unnecessary. For my tastes anyway it sounds too tinny now which is a shame because solid bass adds so much to an dark ride.

I agree about the cost of Bose speakers, but at least if they get replaced replace them with something equally as good if not better.

 

[Dave]

I agree about the cost of Bose speakers, but at least if they get replaced replace them with something equally as good if not better.

Ohm is the same quality as Bose, the next level up of speaker manufacturer wouldn't consider theme parks as a customer.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I'm sure the problem with Hex can be fixed even with the current speaker system, although it will now cost to bring someone back to resolve it and so it likely won't happen.

Changing it was a strange decision in the first place when it sounded fine in the cinema. It now sounds very distracting and really hurts your ears depending where you stand.

 

[Alex2020]

I'm sure the problem with Hex can be fixed even with the current speaker system, although it will now cost to bring someone back to resolve it and so it likely won't happen.

Changing it was a strange decision in the first place when it sounded fine in the cinema. It now sounds very distracting and really hurts your ears depending where you stand.

Exactly, even more cost for something that didn't need changing in the first place. I would love to know what happend to those Bose speakers though. Shame really because everything else on Hex is really nice! The sound is very harsh now.

 

[John]

I don't think the brand of speaker they're using has much to do with anything really, the audio levels in the projector room seem slightly too high for the setup they're using, but that's about the only issue as far as I can tell.

 

[ChristmasPud]

The problem sounds like a lot more than just levels but I agree one brand or the other doesn't necessarily guarantee anything (though this seems to be the principal that they changed the system on in the first place, as they now prefer Ohm around the park to Bose).

Like's been said, these actual Ohm & Bose speakers are probably more or less the same, what matters is whether it sounds good for the purpose.

The preshow audio is obviously meant to be impressionable to deliver the tone of the preshow and build up to the rest the attraction, with the wonderful deep voice-actor and the music - which used to be great and now just sounds harsh for some reason. Like bad EQ, x-over, poor new amps or bad installation? none of us could know the cause because it needs a proper sound engineer to inspect it..

 

[Alex2020]

It's definitely a tough job to fine tune the sound where Hex is based because of the acoustics in the towers, and it's for sure definitely more than just the levels causing the problem. Perhaps they need to alter the EQ for more bass response but then again it depends on the placement of the subs if there is indeed any. From what I remember back in the Bose days they had 802's in the cinema room and 402's everywhere else and in all fairness they're not completely great at bass without subs but I'm assuming the EQ would have allowed for this. I'm wondering whether the EQ was changed to counter act the new installed speaker system.

 

[PeteB]

Hex had sound engineers come in for the new speaker system. It wasn't just plonked in by the park.

They must have been deaf engineers then. Quite litterally one of the worst install jobs I've heard in recent years.

I think the Hex refurb is pretty good but the audio needs revisiting, in all rooms. A real shame as audio makes up a huge part of the experience with that ride.

 

[NemeTime]

I think the cinema room need its levels adjusting. Turn down the high and the master volume and turn up the bass and add a subwoofer if needed. The rest is okay but needs more bass so adding or turning up the subwoofers would help it.

The original Bose system sounded great, but with some adjusting the new OHM speakers could sound just as good.

 

[Spike]

I love how some people are getting bent out of shape because they've changed their preferred brand of speaker manufacturer.

There are other more important issues going on with the park that are far more worrying than bloody speaker brand choices.

Bose are overpriced tat like 'Beats by Dre', half the speakers in the park hardly ever worked or would crackle, if another company is offering better speakers at a better price it makes perfect sense to go for that option.

 

[ChristmasPud]

Bose are overpriced tat like 'Beats by Dre', half the speakers in the park hardly ever worked or would crackle, if another company is offering better speakers at a better price it makes perfect sense to go for that option.

lol I don't think you've really read much of this topic. I don't see anybody getting upset by losing their 'favourite brand', if anything this is Alton Towers going round replacing Bose speakers because their own favourite brand is Ohm. This would be fine if they were some kind of improvement, but pointless if the originals worked just fine anyway and since some of the new results are actually worse (Hex). But as has been said lots of times this isn't necessarily down to the brand.

No company is 'offering better speakers at a better price', that's not how it works. Bose isn't my favourite and I don't own any products by them, but I know that 'Beats by Dre' or whatever is a totally different product to a permanent outdoor speaker. Bose produced good hard-wearing outdoor speakers which is why Tussauds used to go for them often and struck a deal. A different brand could be just as good if they paid for good speakers to suit the purpose.

 

[Spike]

No company is offering better speakers at a better price, that's not how it works.

That's not how it works? Oh okay, in future all business' should stick with their current supplier and ignore competitive offers from companies offering the same kind of product for less then. Thanks for the lesson in business there Bill.

Bose isn't my favourite and I don't own any products by them, but I know that 'Beats by Dre' or whatever is a totally different product to a permanent outdoor speaker.

Well I have owned Bose speakers and can tell you from experience they're overpriced and you're paying for the name. Beats still create speakers and audio devices, of course it's a valid comparison to show that paying for a name does not get you quality all of the time. If it's fine with you I'd like to use the consumer brand ALDI to further prove this point. I know ALDI don't produce 'permanent outdoor speakers' but they do however offer the same quality food in most cases than their rivals at a much cheaper price. Further to the first quote, why have ALDI taken a huge share of the market? it certainly wasn't their name was it? it was about offering the same quality for a lower price, is that also "not how it works" either?

Bose produced good hard-wearing outdoor speakers which is why Tussauds used to go for them often and struck a deal. A different brand could be just as good if they paid for good speakers to suit the purpose.

Walking into Forbidden Valley with the wonderful Nemesis area music distorted and crackling through Bose speakers, Th13teen queue line not long after it opened, half the speakers had blown, Charlie's area music crackly and water damaged. Good hard-wearing?

 

[ChristmasPud]

I don't really think this is adding anything to the discussion because you're just mistaking what people are saying. And for domestic speakers (which are completely different), Bose obviously wouldn't be a good choice, so your experience with domestic Bose products is not relevant really.

That's not how it works? Oh okay, in future all business' should stick with their current supplier and ignore competitive offers from companies offering the same kind of product for less then. Thanks for the lesson in business there Bill.

Either an audio contractor will select their products they believe to be most suited to the project (whether its a new attraction or a redo of an audio zone) and give their overall price as part of the tender, in which case speakers are bought from the speaker company based on their value and merits, not purchased by the park. Or the park's in-house tech department will go to Bose or Ohm or whatever and buy whichever models they believe to be most suiting (which has happened recently).

But if a speaker brand has to 'offer' alternatives and say 'we'll sell you better speakers at a better price', then it wouldnt make any sense for the park to go 'jolly good, we'll replace all our existing speakers at a cost of 100s of £1000s with whatever you're offering'. The park or contractor has to decide what the purpose and function of the speakers are first, because different speakers have to do different things in different environments, and have to last many years of constant use in theme parks.

It's a specialist market, not a consumer market, not a shopping trip to Aldi.

Walking into Forbidden Valley with the wonderful Nemesis area music distorted and crackling through Bose speakers

Are you talking about the newly added speakers from Gloomy Wood that sound crackly and awful? This was added this year, after the change from Bose, and probably uses old spares they put in the bushes and sound like they're overloading. Not necessarily anything to do with the brand, and not a professional install so there could be all sorts of reasons why this area sounds awful.

Do you realise how robust a piece of kit has to be to play outdoors for constant hours of operation for years at a time? What about the Bose speakers that had been playing around Nemesis for 20 years and seemingly still worked fine (replaced as of this year)? If I'm right Alton Towers weren't even using the full quality master of the Nemesis music for the last 10ish years anyway, so that might explain what you were hearing.

I've worked with audio in theme parks and know some of the UK's best theme park audio contractors. It's not my 'personal opinion' that they're hard wearing, that's the industry's years of experience with them. Tussauds Studios struck a huge discount for Bose products when most audio projects were in house, so parks were hardly "paying for the name" either. Other options are now being trialled and used, so long as those results are also good, that's fine...

 

[Spike]

I'm so glad you're not in charge of the finances at Alton, or any business for that mater.

'We're in the market to upgrade our audio systems within the park - Product A & Product B are the same quality, do the same job and both are suitable for our needs. Product A is a recognised brand but costs more, Product B is lesser known but cheaper. Let's got for product A!!'

The Bose speakers in Forbidden Valley crackled like hell, the Sub-Terra speakers only lasted a short while as well and they were Bose. I'm also going suggest Alton are at fault as well as they don't strike me as a company who have dedicated audio engineers and would have more than likely installed the speakers in a way which could have caused the damage in the first place, which is probably why they decided on audio engineers for Hex.

I'm also interested to know why you think domestic speakers are a bad choice but speak so highly of their commercial products? Surely the level of 'quality' should stretch through their entire range at those prices if they're that good?

I also find the funny that "I don't see people getting upset by losing their 'favourite brand'" when you appear to working for Bose's cancellation team

 

[ChristmasPud]

I'm also interested to know why you think domestic speakers are a bad choice but speak so highly of their commercial products? Surely the level of 'quality' should stretch through their entire range at those prices if they're that good?

Because, like I said theyre built to do two completely different things. I keep saying like a broken record, brand alone doesn't guarantee anything. A brand may be good for permanent outdoor but poor for domestic, just like Bose. Where have I spoken "so highly" of their theme park products? I have simply explained why Bose were a reliable choice during the Tussauds days and that, for whatever reason, the changes to the Hex system made it worse.

I also find the funny that "I don't see people getting upset by losing their 'favourite brand'" when you appear to working for Bose's cancellation team

lol literally re-read all my posts and you'll see at no point am I saying it's wrong by default that Alton Towers have stopped using Bose outright. I said that the original Bose system in Hex worked fine and was built for purpose, so why make it worse? No doubt you will continue with this bizarre trajectory that I'm a Bose fanboy and am trying to defend spending more on worse products for some reason, so I won't bother to explain myself anymore.

I'm also going suggest Alton are at fault as well as they don't strike me as a company who have dedicated audio engineers and would have more than likely installed the speakers in a way which could have caused the damage in the first place, which is probably why they decided on audio engineers for Hex.

Um, yes and no but you're clearly guessing? I mean I was speaking from experience and what I understand to be the case, but if this is a guessing game, then...