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Park Audio, Lighting and Everything Geeky

Well I read this thread a few weeks ago, and it certainly wasn't the heated debate it is now!

I profess no knowledge of the subject itself but I might interject and advise your earlier comments of this thread being read on a slow morning... as true.

Assuming that staff are idiots and posting this in a public forum whilst admitting you've never worked at the park really doesn't do you any favours. Is it any wonder JW gave a fleeting insight into the way enthusiasts are viewed by those in the industry, given some of the things expressed here in?

I'm all for free speech. Please continue...
 
Sazzle said:
I profess no knowledge of the subject itself but I might interject and advise your earlier comments of this thread being read on a slow morning... as true.

Assuming that staff are idiots and posting this in a public forum whilst admitting you've never worked at the park really doesn't do you any favours. Is it any wonder JW gave a fleeting insight into the way enthusiasts are viewed by those in the industry, given some of the things expressed here in?
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Since you mention something I said here, who or what are you referring to? I never said staff are idiots and disagreed with a poster who did... I have worked with audio in a Merlin theme park but not Alton Towers like I say, and am trying to speak constructively from experience. Also what exactly has John Wardley got to do with this? Just confused why you pick me out when I seem to be mostly in agreement with you. :)
 
Seems like you're harbouring a slightly guilty conscience there @electricBill? I replied to the thread as a whole, never mentioning any particular post originator at all.

There was a reference to JW earlier in the thread, in particular with a nod to the Air tunnel joke.
 
Sazzle said:
Seems like you're harbouring a slightly guilty conscience there @electricBill? I replied to the thread as a whole, never mentioning any particular post originator at all.
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Crikey this thread. No guilty conscience, I stand by everything I've said, all of which has been constructive. :) You start the post mentioning this thing I posted earlier, as "your" as if directing the whole post at me:

"advise your earlier comments of this thread being read on a slow morning... as true."

If you weren't directing it at me, or if you'd conflated my posts with somebody else's, then no problem.. Anyway I think this topic has long since become a fuss over a fuss, over nothing.
 
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Thought I'd just chip in to say I've meet electricBill and he doesn't work for Alton Towers. Not sure why it's become such a big deal but it was getting very petty.

Moving on...
 
Thanks Tim.. And hopefully that I'm not some negative clueless person who's just on here to whine ? :D:D

Any real discussion in this topic has sadly got swamped by people trying to one-up each other with sly remarks or being petty.

Let's move on from Bose / Ohm and say... What do we think of the new audio improvements on the whole?

Hex aside, the park sounded really good when I visited in the summer, it gave a nice subtle ambience especially around the white bridge. Not the constant 'shopping mall muzak' effect like some theme parks suffer from. Great. :)

Only thing that sounded pretty naff was the Nemesis music playing next to Duel past the toilets, from some pretty poor sounding speakers. I don't think this area needed music, it takes away the impact of the proper music when arriving in Forbidden Valley and looking down towards Nemesis the first time. It was very audible from Haunted Hollow!

Glad to hear the random playlist of X Sector tracks around the Oblivion drop zone has gone too.. Back to just the raw sound of Oblivion dropping into the tunnel, which is awesome. I fink if this area really had to have audio, then a subtle soundscape like the track in Oblivion's queue would be good, not looped music.
 
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Just to set the record straight, it was me who mentioned idiot staff, no one else. Don't want anyone else in hot water because of me.

My opinion is, anyone tinkering with things they dont understand and therefore damaging equipment = an idiot.

I still stand by this statement. :D
 
electricBill said:
Only thing that sounded pretty naff was the Nemesis music playing next to Duel past the toilets, from some pretty poor sounding speakers. I don't think this area needed music, it takes away the impact of the proper music when arriving in Forbidden Valley and looking down towards Nemesis the first time. It was very audible from Haunted Hollow!
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The heritage soundtrack would work better in that area.
 
Hmm but I think that path from Gloomy is such a simple woodland path that it could do with playing either the Gloomy Wood ambiance, or nothing at all. People will be talking to each other and getting to where they want to go, it's only until they turn the corner to look down the Forbidden area that the music should hit them to make a great impression.

If every featureless path had themed music there would be no respite and end up all homogenous 'muzak'. But if its a path with a view to something or an 'active' area (like say the Smiler's outdoor music) then that's where themed audio is really effective.

Not trying to do Alton's job for them, just I always loved the atmospheric way the park did audio and how it made great impressions for people. Some other UK parks way overdo it now with noisy token music everywhere, would be a shame for Towers to go that way?
 
electricBill said:
Hmm but I think that path from Gloomy is such a simple woodland path that it could do with playing either the Gloomy Wood ambiance, or nothing at all. People will be talking to each other and getting to where they want to go, it's only until they turn the corner to look down the Forbidden area that the music should hit them to make a great impression.

If every featureless path had themed music there would be no respite and end up all homogenous 'muzak'. But if its a path with a view to something or an 'active' area (like say the Smiler's outdoor music) then that's where themed audio is really effective.

Not trying to do Alton's job for them, just I always loved the atmospheric way the park did audio and how it made great impressions for people. Some other UK parks way overdo it now with noisy token music everywhere, would be a shame for Towers to go that way?
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Pretty sure coverage of the Duel outdoor music has lessened in recent years anyway due to the speakers around the top of Duel's graveyard/queueline being turned off.

I distinctly remember you could clearly hear it as you left Katanga Canyon walking into the woods. At least definitely when it was the Haunted House soundtrack. Now you can pretty much only hear it as you get near the house.

And yes I agree the path leading to FV should be playing Gloomy Wood music because it is technically Gloomy Wood, althought maybe only as far along as the toilets.
 
Is the Nitrogenie ( whatever its called) still destroying the atmosphere of Duel? I remember it playing such crappy music that didn't fit area...at all.
 
Alex2020 said:
It's definitely a tough job to fine tune the sound where Hex is based because of the acoustics in the towers, and it's for sure definitely more than just the levels causing the problem. Perhaps they need to alter the EQ for more bass response but then again it depends on the placement of the subs if there is indeed any. From what I remember back in the Bose days they had 802's in the cinema room and 402's everywhere else and in all fairness they're not completely great at bass without subs but I'm assuming the EQ would have allowed for this. I'm wondering whether the EQ was changed to counter act the new installed speaker system.
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You are right about the speaker types. I remember the 402s in the preshow mounted on the roof facing downwards towards the crowd. They could alter the EQ to increase the bass but there is only so far you can go when you don't have the physical speaker driver power to produce the sound. Especially in the large spaces of hex, you would need quite a bit of bass power just to get a modest low end sound. There is no way those 402's or 802's could produce the level of percieved bass in those rooms on their own.

Overall though, it is good to see the park investing in audio.

They did have sub woofers in the octagon and the vault aleast. I remember the subwoofer intemiddently working in the vault for a few years around 2004ish, sometimes going on and off mid ride. The thing with subwoofers is they need to be placed in strategic places based on a rooms design, else you risk having wavelegnths from multiple subwoofers cancelling each other out. Also using the right design of bassbin to project the sound across any given space properly. In my oppinion the sound in Hex now is quite poor, if that is because of budget limitations or incorrect setup is a different matter. That said I also probably have a slightly more critical ear than most.
 
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DistortAMG said:
You are right about the speaker types. I remember the 402s in the preshow mounted on the roof facing downwards towards the crowd. They could alter the EQ to increase the bass but there is only so far you can go when you don't have the physical speaker driver power to produce the sound. Especially in the large spaces of hex, you would need quite a bit of bass power just to get a modest low end sound. There is no way those 402's or 802's could produce the level of percieved bass in those rooms on their own.

Overall though, it is good to see the park investing in audio.

They did have sub woofers in the octagon and the vault aleast. I remember the subwoofer intemiddently working in the vault for a few years around 2004ish, sometimes going on and off mid ride. The thing with subwoofers is they need to be placed in strategic places based on a rooms design, else you risk having wavelegnths from multiple subwoofers cancelling each other out. Also using the right design of bassbin to project the sound across any given space properly. In my oppinion the sound in Hex now is quite poor, if that is because of budget limitations or incorrect setup is a different matter. That said I also probably have a slightly more critical ear than most.
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They should of kept the original subwoofers if they want bother with getting new ones.
 
Bose usually mount the subwoofers in the ceilings on rides. Struggling to remember, but I think in the cinema room they were mounted behind the screen.

I honestly wish they hadn't tinkered with the audio in Hex. Apart from the vault (which did need repairing) all of the other rooms had perfectly working audio.

If a speaker has blown a driver, surely it would have been much cheaper to order replacement drivers direct from Bose for a handful of units, than to replace the entire audio system with another brand and set it up all wrong?
 
DistortAMG said:
In my oppinion the sound in Hex now is quite poor, if that is because of budget limitations or incorrect setup is a different matter. That said I also probably have a slightly more critical ear than most.
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I agree, still not sure why they changed it really, other than the fact it was just a good opportunity to do so whilst the ride was closed for refurbishment and that the Bose system in hex had been there for 16 years - but who cares if it worked and sounded great!

PeteB said:
If a speaker has blown a driver, surely it would have been much cheaper to order replacement drivers direct from Bose for a handful of units, than to replace the entire audio system with another brand and set it up all wrong?
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Exactly! They've just wasted money on a sound system that didn't need replacing completely. That money could have gone towards Duel but that's another story entirely.
 
PeteB said:
They must have been deaf engineers then. Quite litterally one of the worst install jobs I've heard in recent years.

I think the Hex refurb is pretty good but the audio needs revisiting, in all rooms. A real shame as audio makes up a huge part of the experience with that ride.
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I make no comment on how good they where, just know external sound engineers where involved.
 
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