Paultons Park: General Discussion

[TedShatner10]

I don’t think Paulton’s would be looking to build an inverted family thrill coaster when they have an existing suspended family coaster in Flight Of The Pterosaur. Surely they’d want a new coaster to be something quite different, be it an LSM multi launcher, a woodie, a water coaster, etc. It wouldn’t make much sense to spend money on a new ride that looks very similar to an existing ride just with an added inversion or two. Its by adding new and unique experiences to the ride lineup that a park grows.

Maybe not a toned down "Swarm" style coaster (that may be too much of a Flight of the Ptetosaur retread) but my second example off the top of my head, Anubis the Ride, would be a type of ride for Paultons to emulate but with Viking theming?



Either way they already broke ground next to the Cobra for a possible thrill ride in the 1-1.2m range.

 

[owenstreet7]

I don’t think Paulton’s would be looking to build an inverted family thrill coaster when they have an existing suspended family coaster in Flight Of The Pterosaur. Surely they’d want a new coaster to be something quite different, be it an LSM multi launcher, a woodie, a water coaster, etc. It wouldn’t make much sense to spend money on a new ride that looks very similar to an existing ride just with an added inversion or two. Its by adding new and unique experiences to the ride lineup that a park grows.

I believe there's a lot of mixing up going on between an inverted coaster and a rollercoaster with inversions/inverting coaster.

An inverted rollercoaster is a ride model made by B&M where the train is underneath the track. Similar models are made by Vekoma on their SLC and STC models. Nemesis is a prime example of that.

An coaster with inversions is basically any rollercoaster that has an inversion.

Whilst they get away with pretty poor ops at Paultons, I don’t think Raging River was ever particularly busy so would be surprised if it has a notably detrimental impact next year.

Interesting point, last time I went a couple of years ago, it was like a 15/20 minute queue however it was the hottest day of the year so far that year.

I didn't bear in mind UK weather so the impact could be slightly less than in warmer countries. Additionally there is Splash Lagoon.

 

[Bowser]

I believe there's a lot of mixing up going on between an inverted coaster and a rollercoaster with inversions/inverting coaster.

An inverted rollercoaster is a ride model made by B&M where the train is underneath the track. Similar models are made by Vekoma on their SLC and STC models. Nemesis is a prime example of that.

An coaster with inversions is basically any rollercoaster that has an inversion.


Interesting point, last time I went a couple of years ago, it was like a 15/20 minute queue however it was the hottest day of the year so far that year.

I didn't bear in mind UK weather so the impact could be slightly less than in warmer countries. Additionally there is Splash Lagoon.

It's average queue time in the last 6 years didn't exceed 10 minutes and it sat firmly in the middle of the table in that regards. The park also lost the 4D cinema in that time which would have been another higher capacity ride that evidently didn't have a noticeable impact elsewhere (and counterbalanced by new attractions).

Paulton's currently has 36 operating rides and outside of planned closures they are typically all available, which is basically the same number as Alton Towers (without the reliability issues and better demographic spread) so they're generally in a good position to swallow the loss of a ride here and there.

Maybe not a toned down "Swarm" style coaster (that may be too much of a Flight of the Ptetosaur retread) but my second example off the top of my head, Anubis the Ride, would be a type of ride for Paultons to emulate but with Viking theming?

Anubis is far too intense for Paultons imo, even if it is a 1.2m restriction but maybe that's just Gerstlauer for you. Just can't imagine they want to dive straight into a ride that will have children wincing in pain. I think you're right in that a launching coaster with inversions is the way they'll go though and if it had the theming quality of that station then i'd be delighted.

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

The big difference is that my son is just over 1.1m tall so the only rides he couldn’t get on was Cyclonator and Edge.
At Alton there’s no thrill rides/coasters he can go on at the park.
So for value for money Paulton’s wins

 

[Bowser]

At Alton there’s no thrill rides/coasters he can go on at the park.

Can go on Runaway Mine Train and Octonauts though appreciate they're not particularly thrilling (RMT is good tbf).

 

[Matt N]

I think your take on Paultons compared to other parks, as well as in terms of value for money for you personally, somewhat depends on what demographic you fall into.

For me, personally, Paultons is not my favourite theme park in the UK and would not be my go-to choice for a park visit in this country. However, I am a 21 year old with no children who has a liking for thrill coasters. When I attend parks in company (e.g. with my parents), the people I’m with are usually my age or older. So Paultons isn’t really designed for me.

If I were looking at it from the standpoint of a younger family with kids below 1.2m, could I see why Paultons might be preferable for them to a Merlin park? Absolutely. The 0.9m-1.2m demographic in particular is a real downfall of the likes of Alton, whereas it’s where Paultons thrives, with a wide range of excellent attractions for this age range. I think Alton does below 0.9m better than they do the 0.9m-1.2m middle ground, admittedly, with CBeebies being relatively substantial, but Paultons also thrives here with Peppa Pig and the like.

I think I would still say that Paultons is somewhat weaker for people above 1.2m, though. Once you get into the adult groups and older families with kids above 1.2m, I think that’s when the Merlin parks arguably begin to become the more attractive proposition. That older age/height restriction bracket is where the likes of Alton begin to thrive and Paultons falls down.

I would very much call Paultons a “young family park” at present rather than a park that appeals to the whole family, and that’s largely why I haven’t gone back since I first visited in 2021. Paultons are excellent at what they do and have a promising future, and I can’t take that away from them, but what they do is not really targeted to my demographic.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

even if their business/company model is flawed and bloated next to Paultons'

Paulton's business model is in acquisition and leveraging it's assets to expand the business of the park. It's copying the Merlin playbook. As of December 2023, Paulton's debt is at £19,131,961, which is up from £2,193,598 in 2022. They'd just finished off paying the loans from Peppa Pig before this current expansion.

It's important to note that Paulton's Park do not account for investments against their annual operating costs, which means their investments do not impact their profits. They only account for them with debt. The drop in operating profit cannot be explained by the opening of Tornado Springs, for example, outside of increased running / operating costs.

They quote falling visitor numbers and increased energy costs as being the two major factors impacting their profit, in addition to economic uncertainty. The parent company has started to diversify their property portfolio, in an attempt to tide the park over and keep a sustainable level of investment going.

 

[TedShatner10]

Anubis is far too intense for Paultons imo, even if it is a 1.2m restriction but maybe that's just Gerstlauer for you. Just can't imagine they want to dive straight into a ride that will have children wincing in pain. I think you're right in that a launching coaster with inversions is the way they'll go though and if it had the theming quality of that station then i'd be delighted.

But at the same time Paultons has nothing much to lose if it has the one Anubis or even Smiler grade thrill coaster for the entire park in the Viking area, when most of the younger or more timid guests won't be left out (when the Viking area will have an inevitable new kids coaster, plus flatrides, with the relatively tamer pre-existing Cobra and Edge likely incorporated into Viking area too).

 

[Bowser]

But at the same time Paultons has nothing much to lose if it has the one Anubis or even Smiler grade thrill coaster for the entire park in the Viking area, when most of the younger or more timid guests won't be left out (when the Viking area will have an inevitable new kids coaster, plus flatrides, with the relatively tamer pre-existing Cobra and Edge likely incorporated into Viking area too).

Smiler is an extreme thrill though. Then you’re creating a situation where you have one ride aimed at teen/adult thrill seekers in a young family park.

Makes more sense to have a Mandrill/WickerMan level coaster imo that is a graduation from the existing rides. I appreciate technically Anubis is in the same range, I just personally think it’s a particularly intense example. You could of course have levied the same case at Plopsaland so what do I know!

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

But at the same time Paultons has nothing much to lose if it has the one Anubis or even Smiler grade thrill coaster for the entire park in the Viking area, when most of the younger or more timid guests won't be left out (when the Viking area will have an inevitable new kids coaster, plus flatrides, with the relatively tamer pre-existing Cobra and Edge likely incorporated into Viking area too).

I don’t think that there would be any point whatsoever in Paulton’s getting a “Smiler grade coaster”. That’s a pretty extreme ride by the way and that’s not the kind of thing that the park would be looking for (and I think it would actually be quite an intimidating ride).

When it comes to thrill level and forcefulness there’s a space that a lot of parks are now targeting which is in between a ride like Cobra and an extreme forceful thrill machines like Smiler. Think of a ride that might have an inversion or a launch but puts fun at the forefront of the experience. Looking around at European parks you can see that Phantasialand absolutely nailed it with Taron and F.L.Y which both fit in to that sweet space. The family thrill track of the RMC single rail that Walibi Holland are building may well fit in to that same area. Kondaa at Walibi Belgium is another one, as is Baron 1989 at Efteling and Valkyria at Liseberg. The thrill level of these kind of rides, and also importantly the fun level, is where Paulton’s should be looking to. Wicker Man is another one, the theming obviously takes centre stage but behind it there’s a damn fun coaster.

Now I’m not saying that Paulton’s should be looking at a B&M dive coaster, but rather that the experience that kind of ride offers makes so much more sense than them getting an all-out thrill machine. I do think an Intamin Blitz would be a brilliant ride there, but if you just dial that a notch down you probably get their new Family Thrill LSM coaster that can have inversions but crucially also has a ride height that could be as low as 1m making it super accessible to their target audience of families groups who will be visiting whilst still being a step up in thrill terms to what they currently have. Even an Icon would be a better choice than a Smiler.

 

[owenstreet7]

I don’t think that there would be any point whatsoever in Paulton’s getting a “Smiler grade coaster”. That’s a pretty extreme ride by the way and that’s not the kind of thing that the park would be looking for (and I think it would actually be quite an intimidating ride).

When it comes to thrill level and forcefulness there’s a space that a lot of parks are now targeting which is in between a ride like Cobra and an extreme forceful thrill machines like Smiler. Think of a ride that might have an inversion or a launch but puts fun at the forefront of the experience. Looking around at European parks you can see that Phantasialand absolutely nailed it with Taron and F.L.Y which both fit in to that sweet space. The family thrill track of the RMC single rail that Walibi Holland are building may well fit in to that same area. Kondaa at Walibi Belgium is another one, as is Baron 1989 at Efteling and Valkyria at Liseberg. The thrill level of these kind of rides, and also importantly the fun level, is where Paulton’s should be looking to. Wicker Man is another one, the theming obviously takes centre stage but behind it there’s a damn fun coaster.

Now I’m not saying that Paulton’s should be looking at a B&M dive coaster, but rather that the experience that kind of ride offers makes so much more sense than them getting an all-out thrill machine. I do think an Intamin Blitz would be a brilliant ride there, but if you just dial that a notch down you probably get their new Family Thrill LSM coaster that can have inversions but crucially also has a ride height that could be as low as 1m making it super accessible to their target audience of families groups who will be visiting whilst still being a step up in thrill terms to what they currently have. Even an Icon would be a better choice than a Smiler.

Absolutely spot on!

I don't think Paultons are likely to get a really extreme rollercoaster at this stage or in the next few years.

Most likely, it'll fit very similarly to the rides mentioned in Europe where both thrillseekers and families would enjoy this coaster alike.

I believe Paultons are sort of emulating the Plopsaland route where they're going for a thrilling rollercoaster that families can still ride. Anubis as mentioned earlier is the sort of investment they'd be smart to look at.

Plopsaland did invest in Ride to Happiness 12 years after Anubis so it isn't outside of the realm of possibility a coaster like that will eventually come to Paultons.

I kinda see them supplementing their family thrill offering afterwards with let's say a Water Coaster, Woodie, Juvelen/Big Bear Mountain esque coaster, Mack Powered Coaster etc. before eventually going for that Ride to Happiness esque intense coaster.

Paultons and Plopsa have often had comparisons to one another and I wouldn't be surprised if they're inspired by how Plopsaland approached things and are taking a similar sort of approach.

 

[pluk]

They quote falling visitor numbers and increased energy costs as being the two major factors impacting their profit, in addition to economic uncertainty.

Where have you seen this? IIRC the last trading update given for the financial year 2023 were that the visitor numbers were near identical on the previous year, and considering they had absolutely nothing new, the early impact of cost of living was hitting and people were back to holidaying abroad they were really happy and possibly a little surprised with that.

No doubt energy prices and inflation will have hit profits when the ticket price has not increased in line with those costs.

I'm certainly no accuntant, but I was under the impression Paultons remains very cash rich, with reserves of 15 - 20 million? If so I'm surprised they would chose to carry so much debt, even if debt is no bad thing if it is leaving them with a stronger operating buffer.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Where have you seen this? IIRC the last trading update given for the financial year 2023 were that the visitor numbers were near identical on the previous year, and considering they had absolutely nothing new, the early impact of cost of living was hitting and people were back to holidaying abroad they were really happy and possibly a little surprised with that.

No doubt energy prices and inflation will have hit profits when the ticket price has not increased in line with those costs.

I'm certainly no accuntant, but I was under the impression Paultons remains very cash rich, with reserves of 15 - 20 million? If so I'm surprised they would chose to carry so much debt, even if debt is no bad thing if it is leaving them with a stronger operating buffer.

I pulled the accounts of Paulton's Park Ltd, Paulton's Park Services Ltd, Paulton's Properties Ltd and their parent company Heronswood Holdings Limited from Companies House last night, going back to 2009 (don't I know how to party).

Paulton's Park Ltd has £1,026,098 cash in the bank. Visitor numbers are comparable with 2022, (Paulton's accounts follow the calendar year), but are down since 2019. They explain 2021 as a one off event, with people unable to go abroad.

I misquoted Paulton's debt / Creditors: amounts falling due within one year, as the scan I had wasn't great. The figure £19,137,967 actually comes from their total assets, less current liabilities, which is one line under "Creditors: amounts falling due within one year". Paulton's Park Ltd's debt falling within one year, for 2023, was actually £4,693,535.

I've only gone as far back as 2016 for these graphs, because Paulton's Park Ltd's accounting structure and ownership changed after they were purchased by Heronswood Holdings Limited (also owned by the same family). Heronswood Holdings is asset rich with a total equity of £92.5 million, but they have interests outside of the park.

 

[pluk]

So turnover, debt, profit and equity all pretty stable over a hugely tumultuous trading period which has lacked signifant investment since Tornado Springs. Outstanding really, and certainly doesn't appear to show any issue with their strategy or trajectory.

Just had a look at the accounts myself (what an exciting Saturday night!), and one of the most important figures as I understand it isn't included in the above. Profit reserves are sitting fairly steady at £16m, and this is what they really have at at their disposal should they need it, not just the £1m I'm the bank.

 

[Jb85]

So turnover, debt, profit and equity all pretty stable over a hugely tumultuous trading period which has lacked signifant investment since Tornado Springs. Outstanding really, and certainly doesn't appear to show any issue with their strategy or trajectory.

Just had a look at the accounts myself (what an exciting Saturday night!), and one of the most important figures as I understand it isn't included in the above. Profit reserves are sitting fairly steady at £16m, and this is what they really have at at their disposal should they need it, not just the £1m I'm the bank.

Not quite…. Cash is cash, equity is something different…..

However, if they needed to raise cash via loans etc then a strong balance sheet makes lending more desirable. With equity at that level they should have no issues raising funds…

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Not quite…. Cash is cash, equity is something different…..

However, if they needed to raise cash via loans etc then a strong balance sheet makes lending more desirable. With equity at that level they should have no issues raising funds…

Just to reiterate your point, equity is a holding in an asset, at cash value, which isn't yet realised. This could be part ownership of land, or shares in another company. It's not at immediate disposal and isn't a "reserve" like in the traditional sense. In this case it's the Net Value of all of their assets, which includes Cash at bank and in hand.



It would also be remiss to leave out that Paulton's Park also has outstanding, non-cancelable, minimum lease commitments of £16,114,762, as of December 2023, which is almost equal to their entire equity.



And looping this back to the original point, this is also how Merlin operates.

Though Merlin are no slackers and the impending deaths of their theme parks feels a tad exaggerated now, even if their business/company model is flawed and bloated next to Paultons'

Paulton's Park hasn't created some sort of new lean and amazing business machine. They raise capital against their existing assets, refinance bank loans when it suits them, and the parent company diversifies its portfolio when the park needs additional help. The only difference is that Paulton's Park is doing this for one site only, compared to 130 attractions around the world.

 

[Jb85]

@GooseOnTheLoose this threads getting interesting the accountant in me is interested in the geekery
Which Goose accountancy school did you go to?

Interesting that they have such high lease commitment’s and are effectively leasing the park.

 

[Bowser]

Does anyone know the wind tolerances here? Was thinking of going Sunday but it’s currently forecast to be rather gusty.

Hoping they’re rather resilient due to lower rides…

 

[BooMT]

Does anyone know the wind tolerances here? Was thinking of going Sunday but it’s currently forecast to be rather gusty.

Hoping they’re rather resilient due to lower rides…

I've been a couple of times with high winds, whilst there was downtime, we still had good experiences.

Here's a link to a useful page on their website:

Weather Info Paultons

 

[Bowser]

I've been a couple of times with high winds, whilst there was downtime, we still had good experiences.

Here's a link to a useful page on their website:

Weather Info Paultons

How did that work out? Were rides opening and shutting or were lots closed all day?

It’s a 2+ hour drive for us so don’t really want to take a chance. Shame as current forecast is sunny but gusts up to 45mph