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Phantasialand: General Discussion

Phantasialand have applied to copyright the name: Rookburgh.

Could this be the new area/attraction currently being built on the site of Race for Atlantis?

However the name does sound very Klugheim-ish - apparently Rook is Dutch for smoke and burgh means castle or free city.
Some on Phantafriends are suggesting that River Quest might be renamed as part of its Klugheim retheme.
Or some have suggested a Klugheim themed hotel with possible sites being the land the park own behind Kaiserplatz and the temporary plant wall in Klugheim, or on part of the mystery car park - for the 2017 the park has built behind Ling Bao a massive dedicated area for parking buses which would free up some of the current car parks.

Intriguing, hopefully some more details will come soon or when the park opens next month.
 
Phantasialand have posted these sneak peak images on Facebook with a caption saying that they are adding more detail to the theming of Klugheim.
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Some people are never satisfied! :p

It's all looking lovely though as you'd expect. Really am glad to see River Quest continuing to get some love. It's always been a bit of an odd duck, but equally understandable given the time and circumstances it was built under. It was a bit of a rush job at a busy time for the park what with the fire, Winjas, Wuze Town and Feng Ju all opening the same year, and Ling Bao well underway for opening the following!

As for Rookburgh... Interesting! A hotel might not be a bad shout, though I didn't think the park was able to re-use much of the land behind Kaiserplatz, or the orchards around it? Would certainly be an interesting one to integrate though. I imagine it'd require being built to straddle the road, essentially extending the tunnel between Berlin and Mexico. This would then allow for some park-view rooms, and another hotel entrance where Taron's cattle pen currently sits.

Another thought I've had is if they are looking to create another sub-area of what was the Mystery area. Klugheim as the town has quite a decisive end at the archway beside River Quest's lifts. Perhaps Rookburgh could be a neighboring area, bringing Mystery Castle and River Quest into the picture. Both have a somewhat darker tone than any of the Klugheim attractions. This could be a way to unify the two attractions and bring them into context with the Klugheim village beside them. A good side and a dark side.

There is something more ominous about the name, certainly in English at any rate. Rook calls to my mind images of crows, often associated with dark, traditional image, and burgh as Kenny points out is German for castle. Both MC and RQ are castles! It's not like you'd need to change much about either of them. I wouldn't touch MC at all, and RQ is already getting a lot of cosmetic attention.

I'd love to see the park do something like this and finally rid themselves of the disjointed Mystery theme.
 
Interesting theory Ian perhaps could be; however the creative team have stated that the refurb of River Quest is to make it a part of Klugheim (Rumours for over a year now suggest it will receive a new entrance next to Raik so it really is part of the area). This means only Mystery Castle is isolated.

The hotel suggestion is on the basis that the orange square on the image below shows the land owned by the park. The yellow square is also owned by the park currently is used for storage but could also be used possibly (you can see in this image at the time Taron track is sitting there).

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If the new name is for the RfA site then another theory I've read is it could be another sub-area of Fantasy. Currently it consists of Wuze Tal (outdoor part) and Wuze Town (indoor part). The queen of the Wuze is Winja - from Winjas Fear and Force. Due to the castle connections of the name it could be Winjas' castle.

Hmm. Personally I'd hope for a new theme topic for the current construction site rather than more Fantasy - it is my least favourite area, there's enough of it + with Hollywood Tour and Temple of the Nighthawk going at some point in the coming years they will also be new Fantasy themed attractions.

I imagine as with Klugheim when the park opens next month the fence blocking the view of the construction site will have something written on it.
 
It's interesting how Phantasialand bounced back from the fire compared to Alton Tower's following the Smiler accident. Of course they're not the same thing. I don't believe that the fire left anyone with life changing injuries (according to CNN 54 people were 'injured'). There was a degree of negligence with the Smiler. I'm not sure what was discovered with Phantasialand. According to Wikipedia there was a cabling fault on their powered coaster and following the fire they spent 2 million euros on fire prevention. Both parks closed for about two weeks following their incidents. It may be that things look different in a few years once SW8 has opened, but so far the two parks seem to have been affected by their incidents in very different ways.
 
I think the reason they were handled in such different ways is because they are two such different incidents.

What if The Smiler had caught fire and been burned to the ground? Would it have had as much press scrutiny as it has? Probably not. Undoubtedly there'd still be a lot of finger pointing and blaming done, as seems to be the norm in our society at present (I detest this whole blame/compensation culture, in case you can't tell :p), but there's much less to be held accountable for, unless perhaps there is proof of arson.

The timing and nature of the attractions involved are also very different. The Bobs were both very dated attractions which would have vanished from the park years ago were it not for the blaze. The facades were mostly foam and incredibly tired, which only added to the fire.

The Smiler by contrast was the star attraction which everyone was hearing about! The fact it had only been operating for a few months at the time of the incident, coupled with the already questionable track record the press had helped instill in it, meant that it really hit home. Throw in the extent of the injuries and you have one hell of a scoop which can go on for months/years.

Injuries with the fire were I believe mostly smoke related. The fact the park was able to clear the rides and surrounding area and avoid anything more severe is very impressive, especially given the fact this happened during normal operation in a dense area of the park. However, with these circumstances there's only so long you can string a story out for.

After the incident PL already had most of their following developments underway in one form or another, so were able to press forward with plans and quickly introduce all their new attractions. At the time the park was (and arguably still is) beginning to go through a major transformational period, starting to remove most of their older hardware and invest in newer, more modern attractions, Mystery Castle being one of the first. They were already reinventing their image.

Towers on the other hand was perhaps in a more passive position, banking on The Smiler supporting income for another few months to see them through the budget cuts to new attractions. They'd just done CBeebies to update one of their weaker areas. The crash completely derailed plans. I also have to wonder with the nature of their incident compared to PL how it would be perceived if they opened 4-5 new rides almost immediately afterwards. No doubt the press would be able to give this some spin!

The only other thing I can also throw in is the shift in communication and culture. The way we absorb news is radically different to how we did in 2001. We now have the viral factor thanks to social media and newer digital news sources. When The Smiler news broke it was all over Twitter and Facebook. Photos and videos emerged within minutes. We didn't have to wait for tomorrows headlines or the 6 o'clock news. We saw it unfold in real time. Whether you wanted to or needed to, you knew what had happened! Even just compared to the RMT incident it's a very different landscape to what we witnessed in 2015.

Yes, there are photos, videos, and news reports of the PL fire, but far fewer than you'll find of Smiler.

So yes, both parks have handled them in very different ways, but they are both very different circumstances, and I find it difficult to compare them too directly :)
 
I don''t know a lot about the Phantasialand fire. It says a cabling fault on Wikipedia. Was there any negligence? According to the CNN report a coaster shut down stranding riders on a ride which was on fire (Gebirgsbahn I believe), but they were all evacuated in time. But because I'm not massively familiar with the incident I don't know how close the fire was to the guests on the ride, whether there was ever a significant risk to the guests on the ride etc. I get the impression that the evacuation went smoothly. Alton Tower's were prosecuted for the Smiler accident. I've not heard that anything like that happened to Phantasialand which is another difference. Looking at the coaster in question I suspect people weren't really stuck on it and probably could in most cases climb out if they needed to. It's not like one with OSTRs where they really would be stuck on it. Nonetheless people 'stuck' on a burning coaster is still a story if you want it to be, but as you say it's a different kind of incident. There wasn't the human interest story with the victims being interviewed.

It's a fair point that the Alton Tower's accident probably had more coverage because it was their newest rides and I do agree that social media contributed to the Smiler story. With more people having smart phones you also get more pictures and video etc.
 
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Phantasialand posted this on Facebook with a caption saying their off season mission to make their finished attractions even more finished is underway.

Seems Chiapas is also getting some new theming work.

Together with the last phase of the River Quest's retheme/refurbishment, the second phase of redoing the rockwork around Black Mamba, additional theming in Klugheim and construction for 2018 they are certainly busy this off season.
 
I really hope they do some stuff around the first hill, it's easily the worst looking part of the ride...
 
I really hope they do some stuff around the first hill, it's easily the worst looking part of the ride...

They might do but it is possible that may come as part of a refurb/additional theming to Colorado Adventure.
This picture of the Chiapas model shows what was proposed in 2013.
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On Phantafriends many are thinking CA will get the River Quest treatment to further integrate the ride with the Mexico area and just like RQ it is being phased.
When Chiapas opened (or the year after i cant recall) CA received a repaint and the wood in the track was replaced. For the 2016 season it was mechanically overhauled and the trains received new wheels and chassis.
On Phantafriends many expect the 2020 project to be a replacement of Geister Rikscha and with that a refurbishment/Redevelopment of the china area and the area around Colorado Adventure.
 
Can't they just update Geister Rikscha? I know they'll just destroy it and replace it with something ridiculous but it'd be nice to keep the cheesey one...
 
The updates for River Quest and Colorado Adventure both sound stunning and exciting. I enjoyed both rides on my visit there, but definitely agree they both could do with some theming enhancements, especially the former.

As for Geister Riksha's potential removal, I'm mixed. The ride is certainly dated and one of their older attractions, but I love the atmospheric VIBES. Plus not to mention Phantasialand may be short on dark rides soon given they've already removed 2/3 and only added one more.

I'd rather they just gave it a massive overhaul and modernise the ride system than completely rip it out, which will probably happen next year if previous development is to go by.
 
Geister Rikscha - Future Speculation
(also another ton of writing about Phantasialand proving I have too much spare time)

Most likely the next project after the current RfA project will either be replacing Geister Rikscha or Hollywood Tour + TOTNH.

Given the load of evidence for Colorado Adventure's refurb and how PHL love immersive theming and the fact the station and some parts of the ride still look extremely Western rather than Mexican I certainly believe we will see CA be transformed.

With regards to Geister Rikscha I would like to see it stay but get modernised/updated. It is the oldest ride in the park at the moment as well. But between the two dark rides up for potential demolition I am allowed to admit I would prefer to keep Hollywood Tour?

Since Geister Rikscha runs mostly underneath the entire China Square (some fire escape doors come out in Raik's queueline) the only thing that could replace it is another Chinese Dark Ride in the same space.

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The most popular suggestion online is that the building that houses the above ground part of GR, the China Snack and stalls and the last remaining section of the Silbermine Hall will be flattened. This area is shown in the green box in the picture above.

Evidence in support of this:
The last remaining section of the Silbermine Hall was used as a workshop for Klugheim is now empty and unused. Next to China Snack there is a large gate/doorway to Klugheim which comes out at the top of the main bridge through the area. It is currently only used by staff on occasion however some believe it may be opened up for people to use in the future while the China to Colorado Adventure street is a construction site. With Klugheim there was a new Crepes stall meaning if the China stall went (temporarily or permanently) it wouldn't leave a gap in the food line up.

Also there were rumours about a China construction project back when work started on Klugheim on Screamscape. Now that isn't a reliable source but on occasion Phantasialand rumours (eg. a second small Vekoma coaster in Klugheim, RfA was to close in 2015) do come to pass. And since Phantasialand plan these projects many years in advance it is extremely likely back then they already knew what would happen. (Chiapas was 7 years in the planning).

The suggestion is that a new themed transition between China and Mexico would be created. Phantasialand have been in recent years striving to redevelop the whole park with full immersive 360° themed areas. As seen with Fantasy, Berlin, Mystery and Mexico. China and the part of Mexico CA is in hasn't received this treatment yet and there is isn't that much of a transition between these areas.
A new dark ride would make use of GR underground hall and a new above ground part. There might be room for a new small flat as well?
Of course new themed eateries.
Colorado Adventure's station and queueline could be rebuilt to fit with the Mexican theme - it has been suggested that CA could receive a new more prominent entrance from the main path where the current exit of CA + GR is now. The idea being to make the small square there fully Mexican themed. New Mexican and mining theming and new rockwork around the layout would look great. Also I am not sure if it is true but a Phantafriends forum member said that due to the sound barrier walls of Chiapas and Klugheim surrounding CA the warehouses to enclose the track are no longer needed so they could be removed or partially opened up. Tbh if I wouldn’t mind if they just filled the warehouses with theming.

Certainly most seem to be leaning towards GR being replaced and a CA refurb for 2020.
However it might be a totally different redevelopment. Maybe they will really only modernise GR and add new theming to CA. But who is to say PHL stick to the major project every two years cycle or they expand onto a new bit of land or there is a hotel. PHL might surprise us.

However if a ride is leaving for something new in 2020 we'll know this Christmas. So question is will this be Geister Rikscha's or Hollywood Tour + TOTNH's last season?
 
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From what I've seen and heard, I'm strongly betting it will be Geister Riksha for the chop next, at least as we know it.

I'd actually argue that I prefer it to the Hollywood ride, but that's just personal opinion. I don't think Hollywood and Nighthawk have reached their time just yet, as not only would their demise pull a notable support coaster and dark ride out at once, but would also mean rehoming Fantasmica. The park's dinner show venue which was only refurbished a couple of seasons ago and has no alternative venue just yet.

The above refurbishments and points make it sound highly likely the Mexico/China area is the next for redevelopment which based on previous trends suggests early 2018 could mark the end of Riksha's 36 years of existence.

Although the redevelopment could also see the removal of the Chinese food stalls and silvermine remnants, considering most of Riksha is underground likely means it can only be replaced by another dark ride type attraction, should it be ripped out and not updated.

This would be reassuring as this would leave just two major dark ride attractions (if RFA's replacement isn't one) considering there used to be five.

I'm also wondering what the future will hold on hotel expansion, especially given the plans a few years ago to make the park a resort which sadly didn't go to plan.
 
Can't they just update Geister Rikscha? I know they'll just destroy it and replace it with something ridiculous but it'd be nice to keep the cheesey one...
Under normal circumstances I'd say keep the transit system and retheme it, but given that myself and Ashlee got stuck on it a couple of years ago when the car's door refused to open...
 
Rather than doing up the theming on RiverQuest, perhaps they need to make sure the damn ride works.

It has been broken on my past two trips.
 
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Phantasialand have shared some pictures of River Quest's new theming.
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https://phantasialandblog.de/river-quest-in-stein-gemeisselt/

Rough translation:
"We make something new look old," jokes Annette Pieck, project manager at Phantasialand, referring to the current design of the whirlpool of Rapids ride "River Quest". "The environment of the vortex must look as if the water masses had already done their powerful work here for an eternity, and nature would recapture its place." What was once here is only present in fragments. The stone guards and weathered pillars bear witness to this along the fairway. The Portuguese company Universal Rocks is entrusted with the implementation of all the specifications of Annette Pieck in order to make this environment so impressive. While the experts have created the extraordinary basalt rock in Klugheim last year, the masonry of "River Quest" is also impressively worked with spatulas, sponges and brushes. What looks like years of weathering exposed or destroyed by raw natural forces in wind ropes, are man-made precision-formed works of art: thus crusted surfaces with plastered plaster, so mosses and lichen spread on the stones.


The design of an extraordinary thematisation requires a loving look for detail and, in the case of "River Quest", also on nature itself. "We work down to the smallest element, such as up to these filigree roots, which rise on the rough wall surface "Says Annette Pieck. "Everything affects the overall experience, even if it is not perceived immediately or consciously. Just the water swirl of "River Quest" offers us many possibilities to shape the character of this particular attraction. The actual nature serves us as the best example. It has to look realistic in order to create a coherent atmosphere. "
And that is indeed the case. What makes the appearance of real wood here is based on a welded steel framework, a plastic mesh and cement, which is applied by the experts of Universal Rocks. "The supporting pillars look quite rotten, with deep notches and broken edges. What is created here is impressively realistic and can not be distinguished visually from real wood. Just as we want it, "says the project manager proudly.

The ornamentation of the earlier elements is also impressive. In addition to the red and green frieze along the exterior wall and the diamond-shaped ornaments between the former windows in the masonry, the stone carved hexes have also been preserved. It is said that the former builders, with these formations, paid homage to the Klugheimer Basalt, which also extends into the sky in hexagonal columns.
 
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