Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[TPick]

But if the SRQ is shorter than the RAP queue, and therefore requires less queueing than RAP, on similarly level ground and the RAP user doesn't require a companion to ride, the SRQ entirely meets their needs.

I think we need to get past this definition of RAP of 'not being able to queue' - that might describe some, but probably not the majority, of RAP users. Try using "not able to use the main queue line" and you might be closer to describing the majority of RAP users.

Yep. Our boy could do around 10-15 in a main queue before completely starting to lose it. He'll lose it in a RAP queue if it is too long as well but people are slightly more understanding in that queue and we know the wait will be shorter.

Years ago at Alton Towers we saw someone hobble into guest services on crutches, pick up the ride access pass and as soon as they got out of guest services and round the corner picked up the crutches and walked off fine. System was easier to abuse then but it still being abused now would not surprise me one bit, especially with the paper time cards still in use.

 

[Bowser]

We need a digital only system, max 4 per group. With ID and names provided for all members.

I’m afraid these stupid people will ruin it for themselves

We already have this at Chessington and Legoland (other than the names of all members aspect, that can't work because your group could change mid-visit).

I don't know if it's the demographics but Legoland is SO much better for RAP. The only issues are a few rides where the unmanned queue merges with either fast-track or main queue but in terms of RAP lines being short and appropriate time-outs being given it works completely as intended in my experience.

Chessington is closer to a digital Alton Towers. People sharing devices, large groups etc. Though outside of Vampire i would say it's rare you're physically waiting in a RAP line at Chessington for more than 15 minutes. Vampire is particularly bad because you'll often get a full queue time-out plus the 30+ minutes of RAP time meaning you've cumulatively waited longer than main queue and you can't dispute it.

 

[Ash]

We already have this at Chessington and Legoland (other than the names of all members aspect, that can't work because your group could change mid-visit).

I don't know if it's the demographics but Legoland is SO much better for RAP. The only issues are a few rides where the unmanned queue merges with either fast-track or main queue but in terms of RAP lines being short and appropriate time-outs being given it works completely as intended in my experience.

Chessington is closer to a digital Alton Towers. People sharing devices, large groups etc. Though outside of Vampire i would say it's rare you're physically waiting in a RAP line at Chessington for more than 15 minutes. Vampire is particularly bad because you'll often get a full queue time-out plus the 30+ minutes of RAP time meaning you've cumulatively waited longer than main queue and you can't dispute it.

So they don’t have it the system then…

The system should be automatically tied into the existing queue times provided by ride ops. And I assume when someone approaches the queue they are then allocated a time to return based on the current queue. At which time people can immediately access the experience. Zero wait.

Names checked against validated ID should be provided before hand or on arrival and kept within the RAP system. This would then prevent double usage/abuse as it wouldn’t allow two names with the same DOB to be used on the same day.

Merlin provide the devices for a deposit and keep the numbers to the level to allow this to be the best possible experience.

This to me would be the fairest thing they can do.

At the moment it’s a farce. And I appreciate some disability’s have good and bad days and some can wait some time but not a long time. But with this system none of that matters as it’s is operated in a way people get on instantly. None of this waiting 15 minutes business, that’s not fair on people who need the system.

As I’ve said previously, Merlin have created this monster, now they need to put it right. Inline with the rest of the theme park industry

 

[Bowser]

The system should be automatically tied into the existing queue times provided by ride ops. And I assume when someone approaches the queue they are then allocated a time to return based on the current queue. At which time people can immediately access the experience. Zero wait.

This is what happens though. Except the zero wait part obviously, that's not feasible due to other variables but yes ideally it should be a short wait, which like i said it generally is at Legoland, typically 1 or 2 cycles depending on the ride.

Names checked against validated ID should be provided before hand or on arrival and kept within the RAP system.

This happens too but only for the RAP holder, not the people accompanying them as thats not viable.

Merlin provide the devices for a deposit

Don't see the point of this, almost everyone has a smart phone. They may already rent devices or batteries but not something i've looked into.

Below is what it looks like btw. You select your ride and a QR code appears for the operator to scan when you arrive at the queue, which updates your wait time for the next ride according to the queue times (which you can see).

 

[Ash]

This is what happens though. Except the zero wait part obviously, that's not feasible due to other variables but yes ideally it should be a short wait, which like i said it generally is at Legoland, typically 1 or 2 cycles depending on the ride.



This happens too but only for the RAP holder, not the people accompanying them as thats not viable.



Don't see the point of this, almost everyone has a smart phone. They may already rent devices or batteries but not something i've looked into.

Below is what it looks like btw. You select your ride and a QR code appears for the operator to scan when you arrive at the queue, which updates your wait time for the next ride according to the queue times (which you can see).

That’s fair enough, I’ll agree to disagree on what is viable or not.

 

[John]

I've been saying for ages that it needs to provide a return time for each ride, based on the capacity of that ride. No more long queues at rides due to demand exceeding what the ride can reasonably accommodate.

Users should be registered for an electronic system which is linked to their entry ticket/AP to avoid duplicate accounts being set up. Everyone joining any given group would have to scan in and each ticket would only work once.

All of this would avoid the silly workarounds they're trying for Hyperia - an electronic system would just allocate spaces in the order reservations was made. Users can then choose whether they want to virtually wait 3 hours to ride or if they'd rather wait less for something else, in exactly the same way as people considering joining the main queue would do.

 

[Bowser]

I know it’s not a popular opinion on this forum but I’ve been researching for our first trip to a European park and the main reason RAP seems to work as intended there compared to the Merlin parks is the quantity of users rather than digital vs analogue systems (in fact they all seem to be card or wristband based so far).

From all accounts even DLP, arguably the busiest park on the continent, has a fully functioning system without many issues.

Unfortunately Pandora’s box is open and the culture of entitlement or cheating the system isn’t going to change, especially at parks with notoriously poor ride availability which realistically will never be resolved.

So with that in mind, a firm capping of daily numbers does seem the only way to make the system viable here, otherwise it increasingly alienates those who need it most.

 

[rob666]

If BPB could manage a fair system using cheap qbots, a decade ago...then Merlin are a third division player.
All the tech is there and available...we just need the willingness to implement a thorough system.
Which, of course, costs money.
So they continue to fudge along incompetently.

 

[Benzin]

Costs money and they're afraid of the backlash from those used to be able to cheat the system.

Whilst those who actually need it get lumped in with everyone else. Just want to have some form of accessibility without the hassle or abuse/ableism.

I do think there is a huge difference in the culture surrounding disabilities on the continent. Very rarely did we see other RAP equivalent users on our visits. Although there are still a few parks that needed catching up at least we could avoid things via Fastrack purchases. An annoyance yes but saved the day.

Thorpe could've maybe done something similar to Mandrill Mayhem initially but I don't think that was particularly well done for those visiting unawares. But the system at Chessie/Lego seems to be the best solution available currently so why it hasn't been rolled out company wide confuses me.

Allowing one ride only is fine for the initial hype. It'll probably go back to normal next year but considering the potential time outs on offer it's a balance the parks have to look at. I'm sure many would trade lifelong/temporary disabilities in order to be able to queue 3+ hours for a rollercoaster normally.

 

[Alphe86]

The Lego and Chessington system works because the average person per attraction is significantly lower then AT as there’s 1) more rides and 2) less people.
We had a great time with my boy at Lego and Chessington passholder day and the system for his RAP worked flawlessly (a little too well - ended up buying Mandril fastpass after his first RAP ride as he loved it so much he couldn’t wait to go again…. But his RAP was timed out for 45 mins).


On exceptionally busy days though it’s just as crappy. A friend waited over 35 mins in vampire RAP after having the QR code scanned and ended up their boy melting down and leaving without riding.

Not saying it’s worse than AT now.. just no different.

Hopefully by tweaking RAP applications over time things can be refined

 

[Bowser]

Hopefully by tweaking RAP applications over time things can be refined

I think it was fairly well established in here a few months ago that Nimbus have loosened the application process meaning the number of RAP users will likely increase each year (combined with more diagnoses that increase has the potential to be rather sharp).

Not saying it’s worse than AT now.. just no different.

The only notable difference functionally imo is the paper system gives more opportunity for fraudulent use whereas digital means you have to spend significant portions of the day buried in your phone.

The Lego and Chessington system works because the average person per attraction is significantly lower then AT as there’s 1) more rides and 2) less people.

Not sure i fully agree with this.

At Legoland you're probably right, especially as the target demographic means most customers are able to access most rides and general ride availability is quite high. They also have overall longer opening hours and all year round access bar a few months but they have similar visitor numbers to AT.

Chessington has fewer attractions than AT though and some abysmal throughputs. Sounds like you went on a quiet day if Mandril was operating on the timeout system rather than virtual queue? Generally RAP users only get 1 ride on Mandrill a day and that requires many hours of desperate slot refreshing.

 

[Alphe86]

Mandril isn’t using virtual at all this season. Was passholder day

 

[TPick]

On exceptionally busy days though it’s just as crappy. A friend waited over 35 mins in vampire RAP after having the QR code scanned and ended up their boy melting down and leaving without riding.

Vampire has to be one of the worst RAP queue lines. Those metal steps are so slippery when it is wet and it is so cramped when you get into the building. We have had many a major meltdown in that queue, so much so that if it is out of the door and up the stairs we just don't bother.

Out of interest, does anyone know if there is standard procedure to be followed with regards to how many are let through from main queue before letting a group from the RAP queue. Or is it just at the digression of the staff managing the queues. Obviously rides are different and require different systems but would be interesting to know if for example Vampire is one group every train if there are people in the RAP queue, and Dragons Fury is one group from RAP every 5 cars or something, and Wickerman is one group per every X number of people from main queue. I have noticed that the system for loading from RAP queue seem to change on the same ride from one day to the next and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. Hope that makes sense .

 

[Mick]

Vampire has to be one of the worst RAP queue lines. Those metal steps are so slippery when it is wet and it is so cramped when you get into the building. We have had many a major meltdown in that queue, so much so that if it is out of the door and up the stairs we just don't bother.

Out of interest, does anyone know if there is standard procedure to be followed with regards to how many are let through from main queue before letting a group from the RAP queue. Or is it just at the digression of the staff managing the queues. Obviously rides are different and require different systems but would be interesting to know if for example Vampire is one group every train if there are people in the RAP queue, and Dragons Fury is one group from RAP every 5 cars or something, and Wickerman is one group per every X number of people from main queue. I have noticed that the system for loading from RAP queue seem to change on the same ride from one day to the next and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. Hope that makes sense .

Each ride probably has its own policies and even that’d be at the discretion of the ride operators based on busy-ness etc I guess.

On Thirteen on Sunday when it was on a one train service and a 100 minute queue, on each train they left the back two rows for RAP, then filtered through the normal and fast track queues at an equal-ish amount per train.

 

[bigal_06]

That email certainly suggests they are capping RAP tickets as it says it aligns with resort capacity.

Doing some digging and here are the current RAP capacities for each park.

Alton Towers - 860
Thorpe Park - 946
Chessington - 960
Legoland - Varies based on dates - For example 1St April 750, 2nd April 787, 6th April 825, 15th April 637, 16th April 225.

Unclear on what the capacity means as in that's how many slots are available or how many people using RAP in total?

 

[John]

I was thinking those numbers weren't very big until I remembered that you can multiply them by up to 4 to get the number of people actually using RAP queues. At Thorpe/Chessie it could be half the total guests!

 

[BarryZola]

Let's hope that's taking into account how many people are in each party too.

 

[Bowser]

Doing some digging and here are the current RAP capacities for each park.

Alton Towers - 860
Thorpe Park - 946
Chessington - 960
Legoland - Varies based on dates - For example 1St April 750, 2nd April 787, 6th April 825, 15th April 637, 16th April 225.

Unclear on what the capacity means as in that's how many slots are available or how many people using RAP in total?

How have you obtained these figures?

They make absolutely no sense on the face of it. Why would Legoland have such variation? Why would they have any variation? Why would AT have the lowest capacity?

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Why would AT have the lowest capacity?

Least amount of attractions, especially when you remove Cbeebies.

 

[bigal_06]

How have you obtained these figures?

They make absolutely no sense on the face of it. Why would Legoland have such variation? Why would they have any variation? Why would AT have the lowest capacity?

I am a programmer and I can see the figures in the background from the website.

Take Alton Towers for 1st May for example - this is what I can see:
"available": "804",
"capacity": "860",
"used": "56"

All the parks have variations probably based on expected numbers and probably staffing reflects this but Legoland is the one that varies the capacity so much. Perhaps because Legoland is aimed at kids more so than the other parks so not as busy during school days.