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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

Bowser said:
Alton Towers RAP is now fully booked for every date of the summer holidays till September 2nd.

Legoland RAP is now fully booked for every date of the summer holidays till September 2nd.

Chessington RAP is booked till August 26th (bar August 23rd)

Thorpe Park RAP has availability from the 15th August (excluding weekends).

This Is Fine GIF
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Will be interesting to see how many annual pass holders they lose next year because of this.
 
BarryZola said:
Will be interesting to see how many annual pass holders they lose next year because of this.
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It's frustrating because i would love to send that message but in reality we do still manage to make enough trips across the numerous attractions they cover at other times of the year that they're still good value.... for now.
 
Summer dates being fully booked aren't a surprise. Especially as its taken a fair amount of time for it to happen.

However, if they hadn't changed the system, we'd have tonnes of posts stating they should change it as there are 45 minute queues for RAP which prove that they don't "really" need it.

Truly, the parks cannot win.
 
TPick said:
Wondering what you mean by this?
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Simple, MAP holders are regular visitors who know the system inside out so are better able to work around the RAP system than the casual visitor.

You also have the online groups who do often post ways to beat various parts of the Merlin system. Including but not exclusively RAP.

For these reasons it’s the casual visitor who takes the hit.
 
We've used our MAP considerably less since the changes came in as limited by personal circumstances on when we can visit anyway, then layer the lack of RAP availability. Something needed to change so not against it at all but perhaps the system will evolve over the next few seasons to make it... more streamlined? Fairer? 🤷‍♀️ I'm not even sure if it's unfair, it's definitely something! Read lots of disappointment online so far this season (and personally experienced) but the time we did manage to visit Chessy/LLW, there was a noticeable improvement on RAP waiting times, especially at the former, which has also been echoed by wider feedback.

There's work that can be done to make the main queues more accessible in ways that could ease pressure on RAP. Mid-queue toilets, wider lines, rest stops, more shaded areas etc. Also - I may have missed this in the thread so apologies if I have - we personally find the virtual queue system (Chessy/LLW) the better option (over time-out cards etc) is there a stated reason why Towers/Thorpe don't change to this?
 
The queue for RAP at Wicker Man a few weeks ago was huge (and much longer/slower than the FP queue I was in) - but people seemed to have no problem in that queue. I appreciate there are a lot of hidden disabilities that make it difficult for people to queue, but I always wonder how many people really (really!) need it, how many qualify but don't really need it, and how many are just gaming the system.

For context, I would qualify for one due to issues with my legs - but I don't as I don't need it. My Dad would qualify for one (he has a Blue Badge due to mobility issues), but he wouldn't apply either (pride rather than lack of need). If we've reached capacity for the summer, there's something not quite right.....
 
Smiley said:
I always wonder how many people really (really!) need it, how many qualify but don't really need it, and how many are just gaming the system.

For context, I would qualify for one due to issues with my legs - but I don't as I don't need it. My Dad would qualify for one (he has a Blue Badge due to mobility issues), but he wouldn't apply either (pride rather than lack of need). If we've reached capacity for the summer, there's something not quite right.....
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Whilst I respect your right to hold and express this opinion, this thread isn't the most appropriate place to have this discussion and I don't think it's helpful.

We can go back and forth all day on who qualifies and why, we can get into the anecdotes, we could look at some of the data. All we'd achieve is an argument and some very upset participants, or readers.

The people who have RAP are deemed by the system which serves them, and the powers that be, to be in need of it and we should respect that. As you've said we don't know people's individual circumstances.

A more appropriate discussion is how best the park should manage what seems like oversubscribed access to passes. How can the system be improved, made fairer and create an environment where people feel valued, heard and equal? @BooMT had some great suggestions!
 
BooMT said:
We've used our MAP considerably less since the changes came in as limited by personal circumstances on when we can visit anyway, then layer the lack of RAP availability. Something needed to change so not against it at all but perhaps the system will evolve over the next few seasons to make it... more streamlined? Fairer? 🤷‍♀️ I'm not even sure if it's unfair, it's definitely something! Read lots of disappointment online so far this season (and personally experienced) but the time we did manage to visit Chessy/LLW, there was a noticeable improvement on RAP waiting times, especially at the former, which has also been echoed by wider feedback.

There's work that can be done to make the main queues more accessible in ways that could ease pressure on RAP. Mid-queue toilets, wider lines, rest stops, more shaded areas etc. Also - I may have missed this in the thread so apologies if I have - we personally find the virtual queue system (Chessy/LLW) the better option (over time-out cards etc) is there a stated reason why Towers/Thorpe don't change to this?
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Some great suggestions there @BooMT! As and add-on, maybe all future new attractions should be built with step-free queue lines like Disney and Universal, to allow wheelchairs to use them.
 
BooMT said:
Also - I may have missed this in the thread so apologies if I have - we personally find the virtual queue system (Chessy/LLW) the better option (over time-out cards etc) is there a stated reason why Towers/Thorpe don't change to this?
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My understanding for this at Towers is due to the challenges with Wi-Fi/mobile signal in its rural location.

It seems to manage on quiet and medium days, but come peaks like Scarefest and Fireworks and the signal cannot reliably cope with demand.
 
Islander said:
I think that's unfair - I'd argue there's no more appropriate place than an enthusiast forum where we do just discuss all things theme park...
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The discussion I don't think is appropriate, because of its sensitivity and likelihood of causing upset to people, is around whether people who have RAP deserve it or not, or whether they should qualify, or whether they need it. The conversation isn't then about all things theme park, it becomes a ranking of disabilities and how we feel that justifies RAP entitlement.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
Whilst I respect your right to hold and express this opinion, this thread isn't the most appropriate place to have this discussion and I don't think it's helpful.
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It absolutely is. We've had extreme scenes like Manor opening where people who 'can't queue' were joining what was clearly a multiple hour wait even before it opened, and regular RAP queues easily hitting the 60 minute mark. Clear abuse of the system, and evidently not from a tiny minority. Some people need to be told no.

This discussion is intrinsic to the debate on how the park can and should manage the RAP demand. There is quite strong criticism from some understandably frustrated people at the changes made, but this has to be considered in the context of it achieving an overall improvement from where we were before with a totally gridlocked park.

I'm hoping it is going to be the start of their changes and what we have now isn't considered to be the final product. I maintain what they really need to do is remove the demand, and to do that they need to comprehensively remove the advantage that still exists of abusers being able to be in two places at once.
 
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GooseOnTheLoose said:
The discussion I don't think is appropriate, because of its sensitivity and likelihood of causing upset to people, is around whether people who have RAP deserve it or not, or whether they should qualify, or whether they need it. The conversation isn't then about all things theme park, it becomes a ranking of disabilities and how we feel that justifies RAP entitlement.
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I don’t think anyone could argue that 100% of RAP users are entitled to use it - there is absolutely abuse of the system.

To state person X or condition Y should not be using RAP would be inappropriate, but to more generally query whether everyone using it should be is, I think, a valid discussion to have, and shutting said conversation down (or attempting to) is actually I think counterproductive.
 
pluk said:
It absolutely is. We've had extreme scenes like Manor opening where people who 'can't queue' were joining what was clearly a multiple hour wait even before it opened, and regular RAP queues easily hitting the 60 minute mark. Clear abuse of the system, and evidently not from a tiny minority. Some people need to be told no.

This discussion is intrinsic to the debate on how the park can and should manage the RAP demand. There is quite strong criticism from some understandably frustrated people at the exchanges made, but this has to be considered in the context of it achieving an overall improvement from where we were before with a totally gridlocked park.

I'm hoping it is going to be the start of their changes and what we have now isn't considered to be the final product. I maintain what they really need to do is remove the demand, and to do that they need to comprehensively remove the advantage that still exists of abusers being able to be in two places at once.
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Islander said:
I don’t think anyone could argue that 100% of RAP users are entitled to use it - there is absolutely abuse of the system.

To state person X or condition Y should not be using RAP would be inappropriate, but to more generally query whether everyone using it should be is, I think, a valid discussion to have, and shutting said conversation down (or attempting to) is actually I think counterproductive.
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I agree that generalised discussion of whether the system is appropriate, and ways to improve it, should happen and that active dialogue may help improve them. I was trying to head off a potentially dodgy discussion path with what I felt was a measured response, which was empathetic to those who might feel victimised if such a hypothetical discussion were to occur. It was an attempt to encourage sensitivity to other other people's situations.
 
It would appear that we've strayed back into the territory of backseat diagnosis and treatment of people with hypothetical disabilities.

Can we stick to discussing the provisions the park have or could have in place, rather than trying to assess who should or shouldn't be eligible for RAP?

That is the only way this topic stands any chance of not continuing going round in circles, channelling 'old man yells at cloud' VIBES.
 
Smiley said:
The queue for RAP at Wicker Man a few weeks ago was huge (and much longer/slower than the FP queue I was in) - but people seemed to have no problem in that queue. I appreciate there are a lot of hidden disabilities that make it difficult for people to queue, but I always wonder how many people really (really!) need it, how many qualify but don't really need it, and how many are just gaming the system.

For context, I would qualify for one due to issues with my legs - but I don't as I don't need it. My Dad would qualify for one (he has a Blue Badge due to mobility issues), but he wouldn't apply either (pride rather than lack of need). If we've reached capacity for the summer, there's something not quite right.....
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From my brief excursion to Europe and research into other parks, it does seem like the UK has one of if not the lowest qualification threshold for RAP amongst theme parks. We also have arguably greater social awareness of lesser known disabilities, particularly neurological, though if that is the case it will likely only be temporary imo.

In reality this in of itself need not necessarily be an issue, as parks like Paultons and Drayton use the exact same qualification as Merlin and function perfectly well.

It's when you combine it with the generally poor ride availability, operations, culture of "beating the system" and business model of cheap subscription customers coerced into fast-track purchases prevalent at the Merlin parks that the system becomes unworkable for those who need it most.

I'm sad to hear of your observation in the WickerMan queue because by all accounts the system works brilliantly at Legoland and Chessington for those who manage to get a slot. I'm curious as to whether people are still finding ways to cheat the system at AT due to the physical cards? Or perhaps it was merely an unfortunate coincidence that the RAP users onsite all happened to convene at the same ride simultaneously?
 
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