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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

The basis of the theme park business model in terms of revenue/profit is reliant on thousands of people being in queue lines at any point in time.

Even if you put aside the issue of having to redesign the infrastructure of a park to cater for guests being outside of queues and scattered around other locations - the simple fact you need to give folks something else to do whilst they wait for their virtual queue time to come up costs money.

Extra shows, staff, activities, theming whatever. It would completely alter the cost structure and most likely make the business case for a theme park null and void.
 
The simple truth is that for whatever reason the eligibility is too loose which means that people who don't really need a pass are able to get one. But that ship has sailed now, they've done it to themselves and they wouldn't dare go back and start to kick people out of the programme now.

So they're stuck with whatever rubbish scheme that they can come up with that basically ends up stopping many actual needy people from attending and getting on rides at any kind of busy time of year.

They painted themselves into a corner by being far too open in the first place. Then the great British public have done what we do best, take the absolute p**s out of any good will scheme thereby completely spoiling it for the people who really need it most.
 
I think it’s a dangerous road to go down to assume that the RAP problems are down to people abusing it, or primarily down to people abusing it, at very least. Disabled people are stigmatised enough in day to day life, and even if not intentionally, I think people assuming that they’re abusing the system will make disabled people feel stigmatised and guilty about using things they genuinely need.

Personally, I feel that the increase in RAP usage is largely due to the increased awareness of hidden disabilities such as autism, ADHD and the like, and more people getting the support they evidently need. It’s worth remembering that the Merlin parks have had an RAP system of some form for many, many years, and the problems with it have only really arisen in the last 5-10 years or so. 10 years ago, RAP was not seen as problematic in the way it commonly is today. The issues with the original system have only become apparent with increased usage, and that increased usage is down to increased knowledge of disabilities.

Being autistic, I technically qualify for RAP (or once did, at least), and back when I first went to Alton Towers in 2009, we did use it. My mum and dad said that it was very underused, and we walked onto absolutely everything, but they didn’t want to use it again on the basis that we often got very judgmental looks from people in the main queue and my older sister kept asking questions about what was wrong with me and why I couldn’t queue. I also didn’t really need it in future years, anyway, so I’ve just queued in the main queue ever since. I don’t need to use RAP, so I’ve never personally had a desire to, but that’s besides the point. My main point is that the “problems” with RAP have been a very, very recent phenomenon given how long the system has been in place for at Merlin parks. For many years, the system was by and large unproblematic and worked well for all parties.
 
Matt N said:
Being autistic, I technically qualify for RAP (or once did, at least), and back when I first went to Alton Towers in 2009, we did use it. My mum and dad said that it was very underused, and we walked onto absolutely everything, but they didn’t want to use it again on the basis that we often got very judgmental looks from people in the main queue and my older sister kept asking questions about what was wrong with me and why I couldn’t queue. I also didn’t really need it in future years, anyway, so I’ve just queued in the main queue ever since. I don’t need to use RAP, so I’ve never personally had a desire to, but that’s besides the point. My main point is that the “problems” with RAP have been a very, very recent phenomenon given how long the system has been in place for at Merlin parks. For many years, the system was by and large unproblematic and worked well for all parties.
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This is the issue though, it is easy to qualify without actual need. Like you say, if you wanted to you could obtain one to use for 4 people and i commend you for not doing so. Similarly we always try to use the main queues where possible even if we do have RAP for that day (i recently regaled that we managed the Vampire queue for the first time which was an ambition) but generally the queue times at Merlin parks make that very difficult.

Unfortunately a lot of people are not as considerate as you and will happily take advantage of this system. The data isn't publicly available but i'd be very surprised if the number of card holders hasn't increased massively in the last 5 years. As you say, part of this is increased awareness which is great but there has also been open abuse posted on social media and even anecdotally I expect everyone here has witnessed misuse.

Anyway, i fear the discussion is becoming somewhat circular at this point and sadly none of us are in a position to enact any positive changes to the system. At least the on site experience is generally much better this year.
 
On the wholesale virtual queue, I know but one can dream...!

@Matt N post is fantastic. I can't disagree with anything Matt says, but at the same time I still think there is widespread abuse of RAP. Almost everyone in my family could satisfy the requirements for RAP, but none of us need it - so we don't.

Perhaps RAP users need a "plan" where their day is mapped according to the rides they want. That way you wouldn't have massive RAP queues (defeating the purpose for many) and it would be fair to all customers. But a tricky balance for sure!
 
Smiley said:
Perhaps RAP users need a "plan" where their day is mapped according to the rides they want. That way you wouldn't have massive RAP queues (defeating the purpose for many) and it would be fair to all customers. But a tricky balance for sure!
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But then that becomes unfair, because a RAP user can't change their mind on the day or be flexible. What if a ride they've chosen for one slot becomes unavailable, what are they supposed to do then? What if they've never been to the park before and want to assess a ride, before riding it, to see if it's for them? It no longer provides an equal opportunity of access, which is what the scheme is about, that's the whole point of the timeout too.
 
Just spent 31 minutes attempting to cancel a RAP booking for Chessington and still don't even know if it worked. The agent had so much incorrect information, for example they were insisting you can only have 3 bookings across all attractions despite me linking them to their own website which says it is per attraction and demonstrating i have 4 active bookings so that is clearly correct.

Also when i previously did this a few months ago the cancellation was instant, i could see the update in availability in real time (i checked out of curiosity) whereas now they're saying it will take 24 hours which makes the concept partially redundant. Combined with how long it took and the lack of repercussions, if that's a common experience then i imagine people will increasingly not bother.
 
Bowser said:
This is the issue though, it is easy to qualify without actual need.
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I think this is the difference between the UK and the US too.

Things might have changed but from what I've read in the US they can't ask for proof of medical history type stuff. Therefore at Disney they would ask the question of "what needs do you have". So if its I can't stand in the queue, you rent a scooter or wheelchair and join the main queue. If its I find the main queue sensory overwhelming due to being in a crowd, then you get an access pass to wait out the queue time elsewhere. Its not "I have autism so should get different access" its "I cannot wait in the queue due to my needs". I think that different framing comes back to what Matt N said of being technically able to get it even if you don't need it.
Disney have made a lot of further changes this year though to exclude more people and I've not read up on them more recently, as they did have the same issue as in the UK of too many people needing to use it, even after they stopped giving access cards for many physical needs.
 
Incidentally, I did notice when Googling “alton towers queue times” recently that “alton towers queue jump autism” is one of the top Google Search recommendations that comes up when you type in “alton towers queue”…
 
Not really read anything about this, so I am wondering what are people doing to game or try to beat the system?

We know people that have a child with a neurodiverse disorder, and will openly admit that the child is more then capable of waiting in the main queues but they get RAP just because they can.
 
TPick said:
Not really read anything about this, so I am wondering what are people doing to game or try to beat the system?

We know people that have a child with a neurodiverse disorder, and will openly admit that the child is more then capable of waiting in the main queues but they get RAP just because they can.
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And I think this is why the way the current system works bugs me more than it should - because as an ND person myself I would qualify for RAP and so would my kids, but we can queue, so we do. It's not easy, but we manage. Before RAP was pre-book only it always stood out to me that each morning the longest queue on the park was at Guest Services - a 30 minute queue for the "people that can't queue".
 
Each to their own, but I personally could never bring myself to apply for RAP even if I wanted it (I don’t).

I already feel like a right fraud applying for things like Disabled Student’s Allowance, even though the help I got through DSA helped me immeasurably in university and I dare say I may not have obtained the degree outcome I did without it. Even though though the help it gave me during my undergraduate degree was invaluable, and I think it will be the same in my coming postgraduate degree if I’m successful in applying, a small part of me feels like I’m not disabled enough to deserve it, and worries that I’ll be seen as a “lazy benefit scrounger” by wider society, or someone who “gamed the system”…

I don’t need RAP even slightly (I have no problems with queueing), and I would feel a bit morally wrong applying for it even though I may possibly be eligible for it due to having diagnosed ASD (I don’t know what the exact criteria are). Even putting aside moral quandaries, I don’t even want it; the main queue most likely moves faster and doesn’t necessarily take a huge amount longer.

Each to their own, however; many, many people will view applying for RAP as the right decision for them, and I respect their decision entirely.
 
TPick said:
Not really read anything about this, so I am wondering what are people doing to game or try to beat the system?

We know people that have a child with a neurodiverse disorder, and will openly admit that the child is more then capable of waiting in the main queues but they get RAP just because they can.
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If my friends were in that position, and did that, I would tear them a new one. Its exactly this kind of selfishness that ruins the day for everyone else.
 
Matt N said:
the main queue most likely moves faster and doesn’t necessarily take a huge amount longer.
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The opposite of this is true when it’s functioning as intended. Again AT seems the anomaly of the Merlin parks but regardless of whether a queue is advertised as 30 minutes or 120 minutes RAP users will be around 5 minutes wait. This has certainly been our experience this year, even at AT (though reports do seem to suggest something has changed over the summer). That’s the entire point of the system besides providing suitable queue line access.
 
Matt N said:
I’ll be seen as a “lazy benefit scrounger” by wider society, or someone who “gamed the system”…
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You're not gaming the system, you're not scrounging. You're demonstrably thriving and highly achieving more than you would have done, precisely because of the additional support you've been given. You've already justified the schemes in your reply. They're designed so that you don't feel overwhelmingly crippled, or unable to progress, because of your disability / neuro-divergence. This is the system working as intended. This is the system investing in you, to get the best out of you. This is the system giving you an equal opportunity.
 
jon81uk said:
I think this is the difference between the UK and the US too.

Things might have changed but from what I've read in the US they can't ask for proof of medical history type stuff. Therefore at Disney they would ask the question of "what needs do you have". So if its I can't stand in the queue, you rent a scooter or wheelchair and join the main queue. If its I find the main queue sensory overwhelming due to being in a crowd, then you get an access pass to wait out the queue time elsewhere. Its not "I have autism so should get different access" its "I cannot wait in the queue due to my needs". I think that different framing comes back to what Matt N said of being technically able to get it even if you don't need it.
Disney have made a lot of further changes this year though to exclude more people and I've not read up on them more recently, as they did have the same issue as in the UK of too many people needing to use it, even after they stopped giving access cards for many physical needs.
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That's what nimbus *claim* to do...
 
Another update in the never ending RAP saga of Merlin, i've just discovered that whilst AT allows you to amend a booking online it doesn't allow you to cancel it so once again i have no option but to allow a slot to go to waste 😫

At least the queues will be slightly shorter for those on-site i suppose but the system is still a mess. I did politely mention to Chessington when i attempted cancelling their booking that they need to revamp the online system and the agent said they've had a lot of feedback to that degree so hopefully it's coming. Replicating the MAP booking system would be the obvious move imo.

Edit: I've amended the bookings instead to random future dates which at least means they're available for others to use if anyone wants them!

Edit edit: Wow, they updated in real time and then by the time i posted this they were gone!!! :eek:
 
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