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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

Following on from @Matt N's post in the general thread about Thirteen's queue setup being changed (so that ambulant RAP now merge with main and Fastrack at baggage, with all guests using the right-hand stairs to the station), I've seen a few comments on TS' Facebook post showing their concern about ASD guests who find queuing with others in enclosed spaces difficult. This is a fair point, given that Thirteen's indoor queue is quite dark and the Tesla coil effect is very loud.

One commenter suggested why ambulant RAP can't just mix with Fastrack only, this would work as you could have Fastrack and ambulant RAP using the left stairs and main queue using the right (in hindsight though, this would increase the wait time for both Ambulant RAP and Fastrack, and just having one queue to batch will be easier for the gates host).

Only other option I can think of is replacing the exit steps with another ramp so that wheelchairs don't have to push past everyone waiting on the existing ramp.
 
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I can't really think of a fix for that that would be fair to any party, unfortunately. If you split RAP and Fastrack into a separate queue from main queue, that will just make both queues (main and combined RAP/FT) move more slowly, which either keeps you in the dark space longer or at very least makes it feel like you're in there longer.

I think merging RAP and Fastrack with the main queue at the baggage hold is the lesser of the evils, really. It also makes things a lot easier for the batching host, which should make the queue move more quickly anyway (along with ambulant RAP no longer having to get on from the exit side; that has got to improve dispatch times to some degree, surely?).
 
Skyscraper said:
Thirteen's indoor queue is quite dark and the Tesla coil effect is very loud.
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I didn’t even know this existed! Fortunately my son finds being in the dark very exciting so hopefully we get to experience this now.

And to play devils advocate to your point (and not having seen said queue area), if one can’t tolerate that then potentially the ride itself may not be suitable?
 
Bowser said:
I didn’t even know this existed! Fortunately my son finds being in the dark very exciting so hopefully we get to experience this now.

And to play devils advocate to your point (and not having seen said queue area), if one can’t tolerate that then potentially the ride itself may not be suitable?
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the tesla coil is on/off and can be unpredictable to people who havent done it before

to make it predicatable
the tesla coil only goes off after it counts to 13
 
Bowser said:
And to play devils advocate to your point (and not having seen said queue area), if one can’t tolerate that then potentially the ride itself may not be suitable?
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I did wonder that... if you don't like the dimly lit queue and the tesla coil, then surely the drop track portion, with the air cannons, loud sounds and darkness, would be absolutely intolerable? As would the backwards portion, with the pitch darkness and unknown direction of travel?

When we first rode Thirteen in its opening year, I remember my older sister (hated loud noises as a child and still hates them to some degree even now) being absolutely petrified by Thirteen, with the tesla coil being the first thing that set her off, along with the actual drop track portion. I was less scared of loud noises than my sister, but I was also a bit of a scaredy-cat child and was scared by the drop track portion of Thirteen for a good few years (probably longer than I'd like to admit...) and would always put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes. I remember one time as a young child where I actually didn't ride it after queueing because I found the drop track scary the first time... (and I think this was only the second time we'd ever queued for it, when it was still "the new and popular ride", so my parents were a bit miffed with me after we'd queued ages for it...)

I remember the first time we ever went to ride Thirteen back in 2010, me and my sister were worried about it being scary, and my mum and dad were very nonchalant and said things like "don't worry, it'll be that clearly fake and very un-scary sort of spooky theme like Vampire at Chessington!". And then, we arrived at Towers, queued for Thirteen and the tesla coil went off... and me and my sister both nearly had kittens! Good times... I laugh about it now, but we didn't think it was very funny at the time!
 
Matt N said:
I did wonder that... if you don't like the dimly lit queue and the tesla coil, then surely the drop track portion, with the air cannons, loud sounds and darkness, would be absolutely intolerable? As would the backwards portion, with the pitch darkness and unknown direction of travel?

When we first rode Thirteen in its opening year, I remember my older sister (hated loud noises as a child and still hates them to some degree even now) being absolutely petrified by Thirteen, with the tesla coil being the first thing that set her off, along with the actual drop track portion. I was less scared of loud noises than my sister, but I was also a bit of a scaredy-cat child and was scared by the drop track portion of Thirteen for a good few years (probably longer than I'd like to admit...) and would always put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes. I remember one time as a young child where I actually didn't ride it after queueing because I found the drop track scary the first time... (and I think this was only the second time we'd ever queued for it, when it was still "the new and popular ride", so my parents were a bit miffed with me after we'd queued ages for it...)

I remember the first time we ever went to ride Thirteen back in 2010, me and my sister were worried about it being scary, and my mum and dad were very nonchalant and said things like "don't worry, it'll be that clearly fake and very un-scary sort of spooky theme like Vampire at Chessington!". And then, we arrived at Towers, queued for Thirteen and the tesla coil went off... and me and my sister both nearly had kittens! Good times... I laugh about it now, but we didn't think it was very funny at the time!
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It's not just the darkness and loud noises that's the problem, it's crowded spaces as well. A lot of people with ASD struggle with others being in their personal space, and a dark room would exacerbate that.
 
Skyscraper said:
It's not just the darkness and loud noises that's the problem, it's crowded spaces as well. A lot of people with ASD struggle with others being in their personal space.
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Isn't that still a problem to some degree in the RAP queue regardless of whether it merges with the main queue at baggage or not? From what I've seen of the RAP queues over the years, they don't look very "socially distanced", so to speak; they just look like a regular queue.
 
Skyscraper said:
It's not just the darkness and loud noises that's the problem, it's crowded spaces as well. A lot of people with ASD struggle with others being in their personal space, and a dark room would exacerbate that.
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Surely the point here then is that not every experience in life is suitable for every individual?

If a queue contains stairs, the stairs are in no way part of the experience - they are a way of fitting the queue into a particular space. The stairs prevent certain individuals from trying the intended experience, and so systems/alternative access arrangements should be in place for those who want to experience the attraction, but are blocked by the stairs.

If a queueline is dark and noisy, like the Thirteen queueline around the tesla coil, then that is a part of the experience. It is deliberately put there to heighten emotion, possibly fear, and create a certain atmosphere. If that atmosphere is not tolerable by some, then realistically is the attraction appropriate for them?

I realise that with this post I've effectively split non-ambulant and neuro-diverse conditions into two groups, which isn't my intention, but it's just a good example (hopefully others can be found).

When I was younger, I was extremely adverse to horror, fear and jump-scares, and so avoided scare mazes like the plague. That's discriminatory, no? Why shouldn't I have been able to experience the atmosphere and theatricality of these attractions just because no attempt was made by the parks to create a non-scary access solution without jump scares?
 
Islander said:
Surely the point here then is that not every experience in life is suitable for every individual?

If a queue contains stairs, the stairs are in no way part of the experience - they are a way of fitting the queue into a particular space. The stairs prevent certain individuals from trying the intended experience, and so systems/alternative access arrangements should be in place for those who want to experience the attraction, but are blocked by the stairs.

If a queueline is dark and noisy, like the Thirteen queueline around the tesla coil, then that is a part of the experience. It is deliberately put there to heighten emotion, possibly fear, and create a certain atmosphere. If that atmosphere is not tolerable by some, then realistically is the attraction appropriate for them?

I realise that with this post I've effectively split non-ambulant and neuro-diverse conditions into two groups, which isn't my intention, but it's just a good example (hopefully others can be found).

When I was younger, I was extremely adverse to horror, fear and jump-scares, and so avoided scare mazes like the plague. That's discriminatory, no? Why shouldn't I have been able to experience the atmosphere and theatricality of these attractions just because no attempt was made by the parks to create a non-scary access solution without jump scares?
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WickerMan is quite interesting in this context.

Here you have a queue element that is objectively rather intense (dark, loud, claustrophobic, horror themed) but as a pre-show is an integral part of the ride experience (imo).

There is the option to skip it but this isn't something that is offered, it requires advanced knowledge (and i believe is intended to grant non-ambulant access though anyone can use it)

I'll confess i rarely read the warning signs at the entrance of an attraction (though i'll typically be very aware of what the ride is) but i assume these aspects are warned about before entering the queue? So in the case of both Thirteen and WickerMan people are theoretically aware of potential sensory triggers including the queuing area? And of course if you do have such issues then i'd argue the onus is on you to do your due diligence of whether said attraction is suitable.

As an aside, i'd struggle to think of many rides that have queueing areas that can accommodate sensory issues. Obviously the entire point of RAP is that you're not supposed to be spending much time in those areas in the first place, you're waiting your time somewhere suitable to your needs.
 
I will say, currently everyone goes up the right-hand steps which is the Fastrack side, so the shorter indoor section. Also, staff are asking ambulant RAP guests if they are ok with the high sensory indoor section, and if they are not then they will be directed to board at the exit.
 
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Matt N said:
I can't really think of a fix for that that would be fair to any party, unfortunately. If you split RAP and Fastrack into a separate queue from main queue, that will just make both queues (main and combined RAP/FT) move more slowly, which either keeps you in the dark space longer or at very least makes it feel like you're in there longer.
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Why would RAP/Fasttrack move more slowly? If you had two queues arrving to be be batched, one RAP/FT and one main queue, you just prioitise taking people from the RAP/FT side. Also if sold and managed correctly there should be much fewer people in the RAP/FT lane so using 50% of a train for that queue and 50% for main queue should result in RAP/FT maintaining a shorter line as there are fewer people entering it compared to main queue.
If there are 20 people waiting in RAP/FT and 50 in main queue, then taking 10 of each queue on a train despatch means the RAP/FT queue will be empty after two trains, but the main queue will still have people in it. (of course there will be the non-ambulant third queue too).
 
The new setup appears to already be working, as I believe Thirteen had the highest throughput on park yesterday!

jon81uk said:
Why would RAP/Fasttrack move more slowly? If you had two queues arrving to be be batched, one RAP/FT and one main queue, you just prioitise taking people from the RAP/FT side. Also if sold and managed correctly there should be much fewer people in the RAP/FT lane so using 50% of a train for that queue and 50% for main queue should result in RAP/FT maintaining a shorter line as there are fewer people entering it compared to main queue.
If there are 20 people waiting in RAP/FT and 50 in main queue, then taking 10 of each queue on a train despatch means the RAP/FT queue will be empty after two trains, but the main queue will still have people in it. (of course there will be the non-ambulant third queue too).
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Having just one queue in the station makes it quicker for everyone, and easier for the batcher.
 
Skyscraper said:
The new setup appears to already be working, as I believe Thirteen had the highest throughput on park yesterday!



Having just one queue in the station makes it quicker for everyone, and easier for the batcher.
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But Matt was saying that splitting them would make both move slower, when it would make RAP/FT quicker and main slower.
 
Talking of intense sensory-filled queues, anyone got any opinions on the queue for Saw at Thorpe? Going on Saturday, first visit since about 1997, where I rode the pirate ship and got thoroughly put off rides for years!

Currently awaiting autism and ADHD assessments alongside visual impairment, and have a lot of sensory issues - with Thirteen I wear squashy earplugs and that makes the Tesla coil and on-ride effects tolerable. Would this work for Saw? Any other rides I should be aware of in this regard?
 
Vicki said:
Talking of intense sensory-filled queues, anyone got any opinions on the queue for Saw at Thorpe? Going on Saturday, first visit since about 1997, where I rode the pirate ship and got thoroughly put off rides for years!

Currently awaiting autism and ADHD assessments alongside visual impairment, and have a lot of sensory issues - with Thirteen I wear squashy earplugs and that makes the Tesla coil and on-ride effects tolerable. Would this work for Saw? Any other rides I should be aware of in this regard?
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I'd recommend wearing those for both Saw and Walking Dead, the latter especially as the audio in the indoor walkthrough section is incredibly loud.
 
You can also wear ear defenders on the walking dead! I sometimes layer them over earplugs for really loud places like Thorpe (honestly the nemisis inferno queue is louder than saw- I wear my ear defenders until I have to take them off to ride).
 
My son wears ear defenders for all queues and rides. The only one he’s ever been asked to take them off is Mandrill Mayhem, he’s so small he only just fits in the vest and it overlaps the ears so assume it would be the same on Swarm but guessing that won’t be an issue for anyone here as it’s a 1.4m ride anyway.

Sometimes staff ask if he’s going to be ok wearing them with over the shoulder restraints but again he’s so small his head is underneath. For an adult you’d probably be bashing into the sides a lot so might not be much fun.
 
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