Speaking of handrails, have they added them to the fence on the exit of Spinball yet as they were missing in photos taken.
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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion
- Thread starter Leigh
- Start date
Bowser
TS Member
To qualify for an Access card you need to demonstrate any form of disability. Mobility, neurological, hearing difficulties, anxiety and so on. This can be permanent or temporary.
To have the queuing icon on your card you only need to fill in an online form stating your case. This element is reliant on honesty. (Similarly there are other icons).
It has been suggested in this thread that Merlin accept Access cards regardless of the queuing symbol requirement.
So as you can imagine, if they desire, most people can either qualify themselves or have a family member do so.
I understand the intention of making the system accessible in comparison to the endless hoops and bureaucracy one has to jump through to access any State provision in this country but it’s not without its flaws.
My point was that a lot of the data dosn't seem very useful, as knowing that someone like 13 is good and all, but what could they change to use that data?I give up, as you have no clue about data analytics, marketing, customer experience management, merchandising,.... To quote Lord Kelvin: "When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it".
And to quote @Smiley "If you can't measure it, you know absolute zero"
you have said they can market merchandise, but I don't think a popup notification would be as effective as exiting into a gift shop.
in addition most of the data you could get from alternate scouces not requiring millions of pounds (or billions in disneys case) investing for instance using the mobile app's location data to see which ride you are queueing for, or for some cost a bluetooth reciever to check what queue you are in technology that is used in many other places especially in consumer markets reducing its cost.
Also numbers?
What can I say I have 500 data about customers which can effect virtually nothing.
My argument was rarther than inconvieniance guests (See BPB discussion for their turnstiles, comes up every couple of months) cost millions of pounds and require upkeep for little to no profit and only benifiting people in rare circumstances, or to try to prevent RAP misuse
or they could spend that millions of pounds into a new flat ride, increasing capacity improving guest experience and possibly generating foot fall.
edit: the data could also be manipulated, for instance if your family likes rita, but you don't like the launch so go on 13 a few times is 13 your favourate or did you want to stay close to your family?
I know people who hate a lot of thrill rides, they will hapily do the ride opposite 5 or so times waiting for the rest of us to finish.
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Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
The park can gleam more from this sort of data than you'd think. They can gleam information about guest flow around the park, ride throughputs, what rides guests are using, the most popular rides, what demographics are using different rides, what rides certain demographics are riding most... the opportunities are endless!
In terms of the uses for this data; the park could use it for all kinds of means. They could ascertain where the knife should fall when planning things like staggered openings, for instance, and they can also see how well ride operations are doing, how accurate queue times are, see what certain demographics are enjoying, see what the guest populace as a whole is enjoying... there are all kinds of reasons why a theme park might want to know this sort of data and gather it on a large scale.
With that being said, I agree that there are probably less costly ways to do so. Alton Towers had technology that probably did most of the heavy lifting for this sort of data collection as long ago as the mid-2000s, when they did that DVD thing that was basically a spycam... wasn't it called YourDay or something like that?
Fair point, that is some acctual reasonable use cases with that data I just don't think the money for a disney style system would justify the data, especially as you said there are alternatives for cheaper and easier methods
imanautie
TS Member
They actually already get this data, attractions.io gives them heat maps of visitor locations around the resort.
Islander
TS Member
The percentage of app users isn’t huge though, so the heat maps aren’t really much use
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ug Bugs
And the subset of those who allow location access, and then approve the sharing of that location information, is even smaller.
Finally, someone who understands. I wasn't suggesting Merlin implement a Disney-style system, but something lighter. Covers your ticket entry, RAP, FP, perhaps drink/food combos, etc. As for Disney, they have around 60m visitors a year - so if tech can nickel-and-dime them for an extra $10 they're good for ROI.
I just want to be clear - I'm trying to suggest alternates for RAP that benefit RAP users. I was quite disappointed last time at AT when I FP'd Wicker Man, rode it (superb!) and on exit the RAP queue hadn't moved much. The current model isn't working
flyingguitar
TS Member
I have seen a few people claiming this to be a uk thing, but I think it happens a quite a few other park, I recall a couple months ago (maybe years) disney was trying to change their disability service (DAS service) because too many people were claiming they can't queue, (kinda similar to what is happening with RAP) and there was some internet backlash on it. I am not sure if it did fix the issue, or if disney are still struggling with it.
end of the day, many people would rather not queue and walk up to the RAP and walk on, so even if you stop people with rap from being able to use the regular queue people will probably still try to game the system so they don't have to stand in the queue and there would probably still be work arrounds (2 tickets is less than a ticket and a fast pass, buy 2 use one for RAP the other for normal queues and you can queue then use a fast pass.
Benzin
TS Member
I think the DAS was only the WDW one, which by virtue of being WDW was obviously very busy.
Also, given the weird nature of the American parks usually not legally being allowed to ask about disabilities etc, essentially the current system prevents people from taking advantage. Even if it's more "what can we do to provide you with comfort".
Probably also really enforced a divide between certain disabilities being deemed more important than others. But given that the parks tend to have accessible queues they had done most of the work towards equality.
As Diogo says though, it was getting ridiculous. Didn't some families effectively 'rent' their disabled kids out?
Also, given the weird nature of the American parks usually not legally being allowed to ask about disabilities etc, essentially the current system prevents people from taking advantage. Even if it's more "what can we do to provide you with comfort".
Probably also really enforced a divide between certain disabilities being deemed more important than others. But given that the parks tend to have accessible queues they had done most of the work towards equality.
As Diogo says though, it was getting ridiculous. Didn't some families effectively 'rent' their disabled kids out?
flyingguitar
TS Member
if I recall it was people on tic tok telling you how to get at DAS for free fast passes, as Disney will just ask and they would say they were <insert disability> and then show other people how they did it and it caused a big thing.Wasn't part of the Disney problem that wheelchair users were openly advertising themselves "for hire" to people who wanted to "skip the line"?
If so, at least they were trying to share the benefits around!
Disney solution is simple. Force Magic Bands for everyone, and stop people from joining a queue when they have a DAS reservation. The benefit becomes a bit moot, other than they can spend the intermediate time watching parades or shopping ($$$).
I can't stress enough that I want "real" RAP users to have a great experience like the rest of us - but it becomes a moral struggle when I qualify for RAP and don't use it, when so many who don't qualify do (simple statistics). Otherwise I'm wanting to take my emotional support donkey on Smiler.....
I can't stress enough that I want "real" RAP users to have a great experience like the rest of us - but it becomes a moral struggle when I qualify for RAP and don't use it, when so many who don't qualify do (simple statistics). Otherwise I'm wanting to take my emotional support donkey on Smiler.....
flyingguitar
TS Member
what is it with you and magic bands, do you work for their manufacture. many people as you said would still prefer to use magic bands and get free fast pass for the day and be able to plan and watch the parades, and would still probably result in a similar result the problem is how they verify people, and there is a balance that has to be found with being too invasive, too much beurocracy etc vs no questions asked.Disney solution is simple. Force Magic Bands for everyone, and stop people from joining a queue when they have a DAS reservation. The benefit becomes a bit moot, other than they can spend the intermediate time watching parades or shopping ($$$).
I can't stress enough that I want "real" RAP users to have a great experience like the rest of us - but it becomes a moral struggle when I qualify for RAP and don't use it, when so many who don't qualify do (simple statistics). Otherwise I'm wanting to take my emotional support donkey on Smiler.....
Bowser
TS Member
Disney solution is simple. Force Magic Bands for everyone, and stop people from joining a queue when they have a DAS reservation. The benefit becomes a bit moot, other than they can spend the intermediate time watching parades or shopping ($$$).
I can't stress enough that I want "real" RAP users to have a great experience like the rest of us - but it becomes a moral struggle when I qualify for RAP and don't use it, when so many who don't qualify do (simple statistics). Otherwise I'm wanting to take my emotional support donkey on Smiler.....
There is of course a much much easier solution that costs nothing, if you make it so only those who need it qualify.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
How exactly do you determine if someone “needs” it, though? That’s the minefield that this opens up, and that’s why I’d argue that it’s not necessarily that “easy” of a solution.
Conditions like autism and ADHD are spectral conditions that affect everyone who has them very differently, so you can’t simply make certain conditions eligible and certain conditions not eligible.
Many neurodiversity conditions are also fluctuating to an extent, so someone might need an RAP on one day and not on the next. Or they might need the RAP for some queues, but not for others.
owenstreet7
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
I would say this is why I disagree with the idea of Merlin assigning red RAP automatically to those with neurodiverse conditions which I heard has happened in recent years.
Over to the Merlin situation, I believe the criteria may have been tightened (correct me if I'm wrong) and we are in a transition period so those eligible previously might not be eligible when they renew.
In a few years time with tweaks to resolve teething problems and everyone being eligible under current criteria, I hope that it would be more manageable for people who genuinely need RAP.
Bowser
TS Member
Fair points, I may have been hyperbolic on the ease of implementation. It was more in comparison to the suggestions of “magic bands”.
I believe Disney now do video call assessments prior in the US?
I don’t know if that’s the solution but the overarching inclusivity seems only to end up excluding those who need it most. I’d certainly be happy to take part in such a scheme if it was professionally conducted.
As it stands they seem to be putting plasters on a leak which only causes another to burst.
The criteria has been loosened, eligibility is greater than ever.