Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[Bowser]

Saw an article on bbc about the increase in diagnosis of ADHD.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ejky0dy47o

The numbers are insane. 5-7% of children. Extrapolate that to RAP eligibility including accompanying guests for one condition alone…

 

[DiogoJ42]

According to today's "Dumbing of Age" (a webcomic I read), something as simple as putting on a hat can help those with ADHD focus. Seems like a simple solution to me!
...[citation very much needed]

 

[Bennobo]

In the queue for nemesis inferno, the rap/fast priority on rides compounds the length of the main queue horribly. We had been in the queue for a good 10 minutes near the merge point with no release of the main queue line in that time, just a constant flow of rap/fast track, it's awful. The queue stated 40 minutes, and it's taken an hour and half.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

In the queue for nemesis inferno, the rap/fast priority on rides compounds the length of the main queue horribly. We had been in the queue for a good 10 minutes near the merge point with no release of the main queue line in that time, just a constant flow of rap/fast track, it's awful. The queue stated 40 minutes, and it's taken an hour and half.

That's unusual. Having timed it, on many an occasion, it takes around 15-20 mins to get on Nemesis Inferno, from just before the merge point cattle pen (with the shop). Even at the height of unrestricted RAP on park.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

Virtual queuing is more accessible in that it doesn't require you to physically stand in a queue, but it has a number of other accessibility issues. Firstly you have to do everything through a phone, and for a lot of people fiddling around on a phone trying to get slots for the ride you want is actually more stressful than waiting in a shortish queue. It also creates extra stress making your series of "appointments" on time and not missing your slot, for the less mobile increased walking around the park between the rides you've managed to book for, rather than being able to plan a step-efficient route around the park. Especially if you're actually having to go to the ride area to get a slot and have to come back later.

I spent yesterday at Liseberg where there are virtual queues for most of the most popular rides, and in some cases it created more hassle than the queuing time it saved - when capacity is limited you do just end up grabbing a slot for any time you can, without thinking about whether that's going to work within your plan for the day. It was also kind of annoying having your head in your phone trying to nab slots when you were trying to enjoy a nice meal or something. I noticed it also favoured small groups because it was much easier to get slots for 1-2 riders than 3-4. We probably got more rides in using virtual queues yesterday than we would have otherwise, but as an accessibility aid I don't think it fixes a lot of the issues and even creates new problems.

 

[Bowser]

Virtual queuing is more accessible in that it doesn't require you to physically stand in a queue, but it has a number of other accessibility issues. Firstly you have to do everything through a phone, and for a lot of people fiddling around on a phone trying to get slots for the ride you want is actually more stressful than waiting in a shortish queue. It also creates extra stress making your series of "appointments" on time and not missing your slot, for the less mobile increased walking around the park between the rides you've managed to book for, rather than being able to plan a step-efficient route around the park. Especially if you're actually having to go to the ride area to get a slot and have to come back later.

Virtual queuing using RAP at Chessington and LEGOLAND works brilliantly most of the time. You can only book one ride at a time anyway (except Miniature Speedway) and your slots don’t expire so you can use the most efficient route if so desired. It’s also far more resistant to user fraud (I do agree that timer based virtual queuing is incredibly stressful for RAP users).

The only issue is when ride queues are supposedly full and you aren’t allowed to join, though this at least theoretically prevents the long RAP lines still present at AT from ever materialising.

It’s been in place for 3 seasons now (maybe more) so I think most people are if not comfortable then at least accepting and aware of the digital format. And really with every passing year digital increasingly becomes the norm (which extends beyond theme parks).

Being physically in the ride area to join a virtual queue is a concept unique to one ride at Efteling to my knowledge and being a virtual queue for all patrons, RAP users are able to bypass it if required.

Virtual queues exclusively for RAP vs generalised virtual queuing are very different beasts.

 

[Ted]

It's mad to think as recently as 2008 that the system for RAP at Towers was so lenient that you could just literally just walk on and show your wristband. Chessie stopped it about 2005 and I don't know when Thorpe did it (about 2007 I think?).

I have ASD and potentially ADHD which I'm trying to get a diagnosis for and I no longer bother with the RAP systems at any theme park. The undiagnosed ADHD part of me likes to be on the go constantly and I hate having to wait around 40 odd mins to get my slot for most rides when knowingly I can just queue for it and be more satisfied. Especially now compared to 20 years ago when I'm much more appreciative of the themeing rides have that it can kill time and worst case scenario I can just look at my phone which helps me cope much better.

It reminds me last month when me and my mum went to Italy and when checking in for security at Heathrow, the queue for security was much slower than the main one so what was even the point? I prefer to queue in what ever method is practically less stressful, not hypothetically

 

[Matt N]

In the queue for nemesis inferno, the rap/fast priority on rides compounds the length of the main queue horribly. We had been in the queue for a good 10 minutes near the merge point with no release of the main queue line in that time, just a constant flow of rap/fast track, it's awful. The queue stated 40 minutes, and it's taken an hour and half.

That's very unusual; I've never actually found Thorpe Park that bad for RAP/FT compared to other Merlin parks, personally.

 

[owenstreet7]

In the queue for nemesis inferno, the rap/fast priority on rides compounds the length of the main queue horribly. We had been in the queue for a good 10 minutes near the merge point with no release of the main queue line in that time, just a constant flow of rap/fast track, it's awful. The queue stated 40 minutes, and it's taken an hour and half.

On a peak day, I have found Inferno to have terrible queue times and that being because the staff are prioritising FastTrack and RAP rather than balancing the merging.

I think Nemesis Inferno is a weak area for queue merging and should be looked at. It's operations are not that great and lots of empty seats are on the trains.

The Swarm is another example where operations could be improved - it's got empty seats often and the batching is a free for all. It is especially congested at the front. I think it may be an idea for the bag hold building to be removed so a batching area can be created. I've been on Mandrill Mayhem today and think having the Swarm follow a similar batching process could speed things up a lot and enable for a single rider queue to be added. On busy days, it does seem to have similar problems to Inferno with the merge points as well.

 

[rob666]

It isn't merge points that are the problem, it is fasttrack and rap abuse.
What happens at the merge point is down to the chase for filthy profits, not bad design.

 

[Skyscraper]

This is what Merlin should be clamping down on... People selling RAPs online!




Apparently LL are terrible at checking photocards, which doesn't help.

 

[Bowser]

Somewhat interesting last minute visit to Chessington. Main points of note were:

- Vampire and Tiger Rock weren't scanning so you basically had unlimited rides if you wanted. Surprisingly the queues were pretty short other than when we first arrived and Vampire was all the way down the path which i thought was a bad omen but the queue cleared very quickly. Also Tiger Rock didn't open till almost 3pm.
- Vampire they were putting a lot of RAP on each time. Usually it's only 2 or 3 rows but they were doing at least 4 each train. The first time i noticed we went over the main queue it wasn't even at the Coke machine which should be about 20 minute but was advertised at 70 minute.
- When we first joined the aforementioned long Vampire queue there was a large group of about 8-10, half adults and half children and they were audibly boasting about being in the queue jump line.

Apparently LL are terrible at checking photocards, which doesn't help.

I don't believe we've ever had to show our ID on a ride at Legoland. I may be misremembering but it's very rare if it does happen. Chessington they asked on everything except the rides where the scanners weren't in use today.

 

[Skyscraper]

Comments like this really annoy me.



They're ignoring the fact that if the cap wasn't a thing they would still be complaining as their autistic son would have to wait 1hr+ in most RAP queues like before it was introduced.
And no, it is not discrimination, Merlin are simply trying to make RAP waits shorter, given the whole point of the system is you wait virtually then ride after a short wait. But obviously it has got so out of control now that any change is controversial. For that reason, the RAP system is broken beyond repair in my opinion.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

Comments like this really annoy me.



They're ignoring the fact that if the cap wasn't a thing they would still be complaining as their autistic son would have to wait 1hr+ in most RAP queues like before it was introduced.
And no, it is not discrimination, Merlin are simply trying to make RAP waits shorter, given the whole point of the system is you wait virtually then ride after a short wait. But obviously it has got so out of control now that any change is controversial. For that reason, the RAP system is broken beyond repair in my opinion.

But it has become nigh-on impossible to get a RAP booking now especially for the popular events. If you're genuinely not able to access rides without RAP and you can't book it, then obviously the venue isn't accessible. I can see why people are hacked off.

Unfortunately disability provision does rely on those with disabilities being a small minority. That's no longer the case, and you can't provide everyone with preferential treatment because then by definition it's no longer preferential.

Merlin are royally stuck with this one.

 

[Skyscraper]

But it has become nigh-on impossible to get a RAP booking now especially for the popular events. If you're genuinely not able to access rides without RAP and you can't book it, then obviously the venue isn't accessible. I can see why people are hacked off.

Unfortunately disability provision does rely on those with disabilities being a small minority. That's no longer the case, and you can't provide everyone with preferential treatment because then by definition it's no longer preferential.

Merlin are royally stuck with this one.

Yeah that's a fair point, the only option I can think of of splitting the RAP prebook system into ambulant and non ambulant, that way those in wheelchairs would always be guaranteed a slot. Obviously it wouldn't be 100% safe from abuse though.

I just don't see what other changes could be made, I think they need to start from scratch during this coming closed season.

 

[Benzin]

If they checked in early August they hadn't even released the Scarefest days.

Looking elsewhere though, is it still discrimination given that venues for concerts/football/etc. only have limited numbers of disabled seats available? Or it is just because suddenly they can't skip the queues like they could last year? Or surprised that the popular dates to visit are going to be busy?

Agree that Merlin probably need to revisit it. But removing the booking system is not the answer, as it'll just revert back to RAP queues becoming ridiculous again.

 

[Bowser]

The answer remains to split the release of slot allocations (be it 50% advance, 50% on the day or some other ratio) to prevent the savvy hoarding them and to improve the booking amendment system imo.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

Furthermore, you can increase capacity of the RAP allocation by better management of ride-by-ride RAP allocations on the day - whether by a timeslot system or limiting the number of rides you can access per day using the pass. Even with the lowered capacity you are still going to get silly queues for Wickerman at dusk on Fireworks weekend because the queue capacity is completely unmanaged.

 

[Bowser]

Furthermore, you can increase capacity of the RAP allocation by better management of ride-by-ride RAP allocations on the day - whether by a timeslot system or limiting the number of rides you can access per day using the pass. Even with the lowered capacity you are still going to get silly queues for Wickerman at dusk on Fireworks weekend because the queue capacity is completely unmanaged.

Yes this is what happens at Chessington and Legoland with the digital systems, though it's not without problems as previously discussed.

 

[Skyscraper]

Furthermore, you can increase capacity of the RAP allocation by better management of ride-by-ride RAP allocations on the day - whether by a timeslot system or limiting the number of rides you can access per day using the pass. Even with the lowered capacity you are still going to get silly queues for Wickerman at dusk on Fireworks weekend because the queue capacity is completely unmanaged.

Well yes that is a good point, no matter how much they lower the cap if everyone goes to the ride at the same time it will get a long queue.

The answer remains to split the release of slot allocations (be it 50% advance, 50% on the day or some other ratio) to prevent the savvy hoarding them and to improve the booking amendment system imo.

A good start would be limiting everyone to one pre-book at a time per park, instead of three. But no doubt the MAP brigade would throw all the toys out of their pram if that was the case.