Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[GooseOnTheLoose]

You would think that each park would reserve / ring fence RAP spaces for potential hotel guests. It would effectively introduce a pay for guaranteed RAP backdoor option, but it's decent customer service for your hotel guests. They could release the unused hotel ring-fenced RAP spaces on the day, allowing for a small number of last minute unplanned visits.

This is the first season of this system, and I'm sure it's going to evolve for the next. An opportunity to learn from mistakes.

 

[AT86]

You would think that each park would reserve / ring fence RAP spaces for potential hotel guests. It would effectively introduce a pay for guaranteed RAP backdoor option, but it's decent customer service for your hotel guests. They could release the unused hotel ring-fenced RAP spaces on the day, allowing for a small number of last minute unplanned visits.

This is the first season of this system, and I'm sure it's going to evolve for the next. An opportunity to learn from mistakes.

Agreed. Having a separate allocation for hotel bookings, with the ability to secure the RAP slot at the same time as booking a hotel room would be a far better customer experience.

 

[Alphe86]

Ultimately the solution needs to be more attractions.
The more people can spread across attractions the more RAP you can offer without the days of 50+ min rap queues on anything worth riding.

I would like some alternative RAP (wristband?) for CBeebies and Walliams only as this would free spots up as well.
I realise it’s not gonna be a huge amount but we do see regularly people using RAP in this areas with much younger children , who would never ever get on any of the substantial attractions where as inversely , others won’t be interested in the kids rides

 

[LoopyLou]

I had emailed both AT and TP about this whole mess, expressing that I had wanted to book Merlin hotels for spooky season, but only found out about the change in the RAP system last night only to discover there is no RAP availability left on any weekend dates during the event.

I haven't heard anything back from AT yet, but I got a largely copy/pasted response from TP apologising for the "disappointment" it may have caused, and that the change was necessary due to the strain on the RAP system etc. Basically, all the same stuff that's in the FAQ which I've already read through.

They didn't bother to address my question as to why I was never informed of the change despite them having had my contact details for years. They claimed that it won't always be the case that you have to book weeks or months in advance to secure RAPs, but how could they possibly know that? Surely, for big events like Scarefest & Fright Nights, there will always be a need to book well in advance because people will just keep on booking up as many dates as they can in the hope of obtaining something they might be able to use.

They then told me, similarly to what some of you guys have said, to keep an eye on the RAP booking page, as they do get last-minute cancellations. Again though, this completely ignores the part of my email where I told them I am not local and need to book accommodation and such to make the trip possible. I can't rely on the faint hope of last-minute cancellations to obtain a RAP on the day of my visit because if I turn up and can't get one, I'll have to leave, and will have wasted money on both hotels and park tickets

Overall, it read like a very cold and uncaring response, though I shouldn't be surprised at this point since I've been stabbed in the heart by Merlin several times in the past.

 

[Bowser]

That sounds like too much extra stress to me

Yep, it is an extra level of stress and the bane of our theme park experience this year.

Essentially all of the Merlin parks are now dysfunctional outside of a handful of off-peak days, with a combination of regularly closed rides and queue times that are inaccessible unless you can bag an elusive RAP slot (and even then it's no guarantee seemingly).

I'm not sure if it's something you're able or willing to do but we visited some parks in Europe this year (Plopsaland and Efteling) and it was pure bliss in comparison. Even in the UK the likes of Paultons and Drayton are far far superior experiences in terms of accessibility, so as much as there are aspects of the Merlin parks we love, i'd recommend spreading your wings and finding alternative experiences.

 

[TPick]

As an aside it’s nice to hear from someone else who was both unaware of the changes and reliant on last minute visits as despite my protestations some people seem reluctant to accept we exist.

We have been MAP holders and RAP users for ages and were sent no notification of the changes - it was actually on this forum that we found out rather than something from Merlin. We also used to visit last minute quite often - many a time we planned not to do much for a day but the house was being destroyed by lunchtime and we would nip to one of the parks for the afternoon.

I think to be fair the blame lies far more with RAP users who block-book dates months in advance on the off-chance they'll visit, rather than when they know they will. It's simple abuse of the system.

Agreed. I admit we block book but I think we have only once not used the booking (we tried to get it cancelled but that is another story). Problem for RAP users now I find is that you don't book a day because you specifically want to go that day, you book it because that is the first day available for weeks - slightly different mindset now.

 

[TPick]

Good question and one i don't know the answer to. The website says:

• There will be times when Reserve and Ride holders will be required to wait past their allotted wait time due to unforeseen circumstances.

That makes it sound like it works the same as RAP. In which case i'd imagine Fast Track customers are getting priority as you're going to be straight to guest services if you've shelled out several hundred pounds and 6 rides are showing up as full.

Would be interesting to know if it is the same system. Closing a queue for RAP users but leaving the same queue open for fast track seems a little unfair.

 

[rob666]

Capitalism is basically unfair.
Pay extra to step over the plebians.
I have money, move over.

 

[LoopyLou]

I'm not sure if it's something you're able or willing to do but we visited some parks in Europe this year (Plopsaland and Efteling) and it was pure bliss in comparison.

Honestly, I would love to be able to do that and will be forever jealous of anyone who can, haha. Unfortunately, I don't even possess a passport, as travelling abroad is far too stressful for me

Perhaps if I had an allocated carer that could handle some of the stressful aspects, it might just about be possible, but I've been on a waiting list for a care assistant (who would be with me 1 day of the week in order to enable me to go out and about) for over 3 years and still haven't got one. In the meantime, I have my dad, who does as much as he possibly can, bless him. I will be forever grateful that I have a dad willing to help, but he too is also on the autistic spectrum and has other problems of his own that make it difficult for him to travel.

We did have a trip to Paultons once while in the general area on holiday, and it was the most hassle-free theme park experience we've ever had in our lives! I would go as far as to say it was a relaxing day, and relaxing is not usually a word I can associate with theme parks, haha. If Merlin parks were as pleasant as that particular trip to Paultons, it would make a world of difference.

 

[sock]

We did have a trip to Paultons once while in the general area on holiday, and it was the most hassle-free theme park experience we've ever had in our lives! I would go as far as to say it was a relaxing day, and relaxing is not usually a word I can associate with theme parks, haha. If Merlin parks were as pleasant as that particular trip to Paultons, it would make a world of difference.

I agree! I noramlly come back from the theme park feeling like I've been hit by a truck (but still had fun), but Paultons there was just no stress. It was so much more anjoyable.

 

[LoopyLou]

Capitalism is basically unfair.
Pay extra to step over the plebians.
I have money, move over.

I actually used to do just that for the sake of my own sanity, haha. Long before I was on medication that badly impacts my bladder, and before I had my various diagnoses of different conditions both mental and physical health-wise that make queuing difficult, I would save up all year just to be able to afford unlimited fast tracks. All because of some bad memories of meltdowns at theme parks as a kid. It was the only way I knew how to make theme park trips bearable. If I couldn’t obtain or afford fast track, I just had to accept that I wouldn’t be able to go. I didn't know why I found them unbearable, or that RAP was even a thing that existed.

Sadly, with the price rises, even if I save up, I still can’t afford fast tracks nowadays. If that were still an option, I would probably do it just to avoid having to rely on RAP.

With almost all my issues being non-visible (unless I have a more visible toilet incident, which sadly has happened before >.<), I find it extremely uncomfortable getting the judging glares from people while in RAP queues. Sometimes I have avoided joining even short 5 min RAP queues not because of my access needs, but because I don’t always have it in me to stand in a space for any length of time where I’m going to be judged like that

Being aware of what people tend to think isn’t very nice. I wish I had a way to transplant my experiences into their brains so they might understand how difficult it is to go out and do things when you have certain impairments.

There are very few places in general where I actually feel like I can comfortably use my Nimbus card ever since my therapist recommended getting one years ago to help me go out more and access places. She was worried that I avoided going out because of the difficulties created by my various issues and that I would wind up becoming a shut-in (a perfectly valid worry because I pretty much am a shut-in for that very reason!) She had hoped the Nimbus card might help facilitate better access for me to places I'd otherwise discounted going to.

I wish I had money to eliminate such problems because at least then, the sideways looks of disgust would be for a different reason.

 

[imanautie]

Would be interesting to know if it is the same system. Closing a queue for RAP users but leaving the same queue open for fast track seems a little unfair.

Within loqueue the system powering it, for most rides there's 2 "queues", one for rap, another for everyone else using reserve and ride (paid and comps), each queue independently tracks it's capacity and closes off, however some (cough cough dragons fury) are getting left manually closed off.

Edit: of course, you are correct in assuming the paid offering usually is higher.

 

[Bowser]

Honestly, I would love to be able to do that and will be forever jealous of anyone who can, haha. Unfortunately, I don't even possess a passport, as travelling abroad is far too stressful for me

I understand. The only thing I would add is depending on where you live, Plopsaland is very doable in a day by car. In fact for us as southerners it’s closer than a trip to Blackpool! You can stay in your car the entire time if you want when getting the train.

Equally there’s accommodation and a water park on site too. It really is as easy as driving to a theme park in the UK. It’s pretty much one straight road for 35 minutes out of the train till you reach De Panne.

The RAP system there is great, no reservation required and no time outs on usage. Most staff speak some English, certainly those at guest services and there’s a Pizza Hut for easy food if you need it.

 

[Smiley]

Also how has the data side improved disneys business? It isn't like the bands give that much data, potentially just where people spend their money or what fadt passes they get, but both of these could be possible to track anyway.

You obviously know little about the Disney system. It knows where you are all the time - which ride you are on, which ride car you are in (to link your photos as you ride), how long you spent queuing, how long you waited/eat for, which characters you interact with, etc... Not suggesting you need all that for RAP but.... The data is ESSENTIAL to their business so they can maximise park capacity.

Making RAP digital with simple NFC tech (that can't be easily copied) can easily stop people from "queuing whilst waiting in a RAP queue" , almost remove the RAP physical queue. You could also use it as a " FP-lite" for regular visitors, by offering a "virtual queue" at reduced cost.

Some people see problems. Others see opportunities.

 

[imanautie]

You obviously know little about the Disney system. It knows where you are all the time - which ride you are on, which ride car you are in (to link your photos as you ride), how long you spent queuing, how long you waited/eat for, which characters you interact with, etc... Not suggesting you need all that for RAP but.... The data is ESSENTIAL to their business so they can maximise park capacity.

Making RAP digital with simple NFC tech (that can't be easily copied) can easily stop people from "queuing whilst waiting in a RAP queue" , almost remove the RAP physical queue. You could also use it as a " FP-lite" for regular visitors, by offering a "virtual queue" at reduced cost.

Some people see problems. Others see opportunities.

The problem is the cost per tag does add up quickly for the higher security tags, not helped by there's basically only 3 companies actually making good quality chips to go inside...

 

[jibbsie]

You obviously know little about the Disney system. It knows where you are all the time - which ride you are on, which ride car you are in (to link your photos as you ride), how long you spent queuing, how long you waited/eat for, which characters you interact with, etc... Not suggesting you need all that for RAP but.... The data is ESSENTIAL to their business so they can maximise park capacity.

I am aware of how their system works, and I would say it dosn't do much for their buisness,
the detecting which seat you are in requires a specific sensor which I don't think is on many rides and even with this system you still have to link your photos at a terminal thing after the ride (or did it was 2019 when I last went)
besides apart from automatically linking your photos, what else dose it do?
What data can you get from knowing little timmy has been on Big thunder mountain 3 times today?
and maximise park capacity? how?
what changes are they making to the park appart from reccomend rides/resturants that aren't busy in the app, something which could be done using the sales/queue length of the place.

Making RAP digital with simple NFC tech (that can't be easily copied) can easily stop people from "queuing whilst waiting in a RAP queue" , almost remove the RAP physical queue. You could also use it as a " FP-lite" for regular visitors, by offering a "virtual queue" at reduced cost.

they can be easily coppied using a device like an android watch and it can require more expence to get it working more securley,
I had 2 ideas of what you meant by stopping people queueing with RAP:
is your idea to use nfc tags to detect when you are in a queue?
the international standard states that NFC has a maximum range of 3 feet, you will need a lot of NFC readers or go for a custom implementation like disney has to detect this (Expensive!), and what is stopping someone from hiding / taking off their band when in a queue or using an nfc blocking bag it only takes one viral tic toc to imediatly destory that system.
it also requires staff to know exacally who is the RAP user, from my understanding assuming they use a technology similar to NFC the tags don't give an accurate position they just ping when they are energised by an NFC reader, so a couple of groups of people could be in one ares.

alternativley you use the BPB stle and have turnstiles on each queue, this is costly and inconveniences everyone using it.

the virtual queue idea dosn't sound to fun and often they end out with multiple hour queues as people just book them and do other stuff and are willing to wait extra for the same ride and will probably lead to a worse experience of not getting on many rides.

 

[imanautie]

I am aware of how their system works, and I would say it dosn't do much for their buisness,
the detecting which seat you are in requires a specific sensor which I don't think is on many rides and even with this system you still have to link your photos at a terminal thing after the ride (or did it was 2019 when I last went)
besides apart from automatically linking your photos, what else dose it do?
What data can you get from knowing little timmy has been on Big thunder mountain 3 times today?
and maximise park capacity? how?
what changes are they making to the park appart from reccomend rides/resturants that aren't busy in the app, something which could be done using the sales/queue length of the place.


they can be easily coppied using a device like an android watch and it can require more expence to get it working more securley,
I had 2 ideas of what you meant by stopping people queueing with RAP:
is your idea to use nfc tags to detect when you are in a queue?
the international standard states that NFC has a maximum range of 3 feet, you will need a lot of NFC readers or go for a custom implementation like disney has to detect this (Expensive!), and what is stopping someone from hiding / taking off their band when in a queue or using an nfc blocking bag it only takes one viral tic toc to imediatly destory that system.
it also requires staff to know exacally who is the RAP user, from my understanding assuming they use a technology similar to NFC the tags don't give an accurate position they just ping when they are energised by an NFC reader, so a couple of groups of people could be in one ares.

alternativley you use the BPB stle and have turnstiles on each queue, this is costly and inconveniences everyone using it.

the virtual queue idea dosn't sound to fun and often they end out with multiple hour queues as people just book them and do other stuff and are willing to wait extra for the same ride and will probably lead to a worse experience of not getting on many rides.

Disney magic bands are multi radio devices, they have 13.5mhz which is passive and basically NFC, used for tap applications, a ultra high frequency (860-960mhz) passive tag , as well as a 2.4ghz active tag.

They can use the uhf and 2,5fhz radio for quite long range detection without needing a tap, funny enough uhf is used in some logistics facilities to track items location without needing to be actively scanned, it's also used in freestyle bottles.

Passive: the radio is unpowered(no battery required), it is given power to operate wirelessly by the reader, active is where it's actively transmitting using its own power source, typically active will provide the longest distance.

 

[Skyscraper]

An important thing to remember is that a lot of Autistic and neuro diverse people don't like wearing wristbands due to the feel of them on their skin (and can have meltdowns if forced to wear them), so unless the carer is allowed to wear them it wouldn't work.

 

[Smiley]

Like I said, some people see problems; others opportunities. First off, Mifare classic would be fine because the card is only valid for 1 day, would have to be registered on the system, and the system can detect if you're in 2 places at once. Cloning cards would serve no purpose. NFC can be integrated into a wristband, card, lanyard, almost anything (or used from your phone). Just scan it on entry to the queue (low cost implementation). It can also be used for the FP system.

As for Disney, the MagicBands help to "nickel and dime" you. It helps with the overall customer experience, with understanding customer shopping/riding/eating habits, routes, queues, where people stand/watch parades, pretty much everything. If little Timmy rode Big Thunder Mountain 3 times, it must be his favourite ride - so wouldn't he like a BTM "super-rider" pack sent to his hotel room for only $34.99 Inc his personalised photos, fridge magnet, and other crap. And if he's visiting tomorrow, a free FP (but not for his parents, they have to buy them at $10 ). That's $50 of nickel'n'diming!

 

[jibbsie]

As for Disney, the MagicBands help to "nickel and dime" you. It helps with the overall customer experience, with understanding customer shopping/riding/eating habits, routes, queues, where people stand/watch parades, pretty much everything. If little Timmy rode Big Thunder Mountain 3 times, it must be his favourite ride - so wouldn't he like a BTM "super-rider" pack sent to his hotel room for only $34.99 Inc his personalised photos, fridge magnet, and other crap. And if he's visiting tomorrow, a free FP (but not for his parents, they have to buy them at $10 ). That's $50 of nickel'n'diming!

dose it? because they aren't really using it as individual pricing isn't a thing, and I don't think they have that many long range recievers (the type that can detect the band from further than a meter) like wise I can't see any evidence of them advertising using that data.

besides how useful is this data?
the pictures aren't automatically assigned to a band, they have to be tapped at a diaplay after the ride, so timmy must have tapped the display to tell them he is in that picture, they can't see where he stands or the route (although they could use the location data from the app for most of these)

a lot of your ideas could be achieved, probably better using differnt technology for example face ID (that way not only people who pay for a band can be nickle and dimed, and it did exist before disney introduced magic bands I think face book was using it in 2010) or maybe just the location data on a phone (you can see if someone is queueing for a ride, and can notify them with details of the ride or other stuff.

Like I said, some people see problems; others opportunities. First off, Mifare classic would be fine because the card is only valid for 1 day, would have to be registered on the system, and the system can detect if you're in 2 places at once. Cloning cards would serve no purpose. NFC can be integrated into a wristband, card, lanyard, almost anything (or used from your phone). Just scan it on entry to the queue (low cost implementation). It can also be used for the FP system.

back on topic to RAP how is your idea of using this, is it to just use the bands to scan for RAP?
what differnce is it between the current ticket system?
Use the bands to see if they are in a normal queue?
what stopps someone from taking the band of and putting them in a locker or into one of those nfc blocking pouches (or just some foil)
make all guests go through a turnstile, even the normal queue to ensure no RAP usere are in the queue?
this inconveniences everyone else, and could impact the accesability of the normal queue for guests as some can be quite tight.