-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
Russia vs NATO
- Thread starter GaryH
- Start date
Matt.GC
TS Member
But again a very hypothetical question that's been debated ever since the Americans bombed Hiroshima, yet nearly 70 years later no one has the answer to it.
There's still no reason to think that a sudden escalation of a nuclear nature is closer that it was a week or 2 ago.
Quite amusing news today from the Kremlin.
So the 4 territories annexed of which Ukraine has reclaimed parts of….. although the Russian government were officially signing the paperwork today, they are now going to consult the “locals” of each region to ask them where they think the borders will be!
So they have annexed regions every don’t control, not know where the borders are!
www.themoscowtimes.com
So the 4 territories annexed of which Ukraine has reclaimed parts of….. although the Russian government were officially signing the paperwork today, they are now going to consult the “locals” of each region to ask them where they think the borders will be!
So they have annexed regions every don’t control, not know where the borders are!
Russia to 'Consult' Locals on Annexed Ukraine Regions' Borders – Kremlin - The Moscow Times
Russia plans to confer with residents in two Moscow-annexed regions in Ukraine while determining the exact borders of the areas to be integrated into Russia, the Kremlin said Monday.
Times are reporting the “nuclear train” has been spotted moving through Russia towards the Ukraine border.
Putin ‘orders nuclear military train to Ukraine’
President Putin is set to demonstrate his willingness to use weapons of mass destruction with a nuclear test on Ukraine’s borders, Nato is believed to have warn
www.thetimes.co.uk
Meanwhile NATO is searching for a nuclear armed Russian sun which has disappeared from its base 2 days ago in the artic circle believed to be armed with Poseidon nuclear drone torpedos.
NATO fears Russia preparing to test Poseidon nuclear torpedo for the first time
NATO fears that Russia may be readying to test its Poseidon nuclear-tipped torpedo, often referred to as a "doomsday weapon," for the first time, the Italian publication La Repubblica reported on Oct. 2.
Does this mean a nuclear war? No I don’t believe so. But I expect we will see the firing of a nuclear weapon somewhere in an open space, perhaps in the sea, in the next few weeks with Putin hoping the detonation will scare the west and Ukraine into backing down.
Escalate to de-escalate (as Putin cited the USA doing against Japan in 1945). Is the only thing Putin has left. Hopefully China will start to distance itself from Russia should they detonate such a weapon, after all, its main customers and source of income are the west!
Alsty
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Fury 325
In what can only be described as a significant escalation, the only bridge between Crimea and Russia has been destroyed. We're not quite sure who was responsible but this will be a big set back for Russia.
Crimea bridge partly reopens after huge explosion - Russia
The explosion wrecked one section of Europe's longest bridge, reportedly killing three people.
www.bbc.co.uk
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
On a promising note, a senior UK government source, as well as numerous other military analysts, are suggesting that the Ukraine counter offensive is moving at such a rate that the war could be “over by Christmas”, with Ukraine having pushed Russian forces out of the Donbas and retaken all of their territory by the end of the year: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20044327/ukraine-war-over-by-christmas-russian-army-total-collapse/
(I apologise, as I know some people don’t like The Sun, but the other sources, including The Times, were all behind a paywall.)
I know that “over by Christmas” is a familiar line from WW1, but this is not simply being said as propaganda by the government… this is agreed upon by multiple government sources and military analysts who have intelligence regarding the situation on the ground in Ukraine.
These analysts really think that Russia’s move has backfired to such an extent, and that Ukraine is pushing back so brilliantly, that Ukraine could have won the war by the end of 2022.
(I apologise, as I know some people don’t like The Sun, but the other sources, including The Times, were all behind a paywall.)
I know that “over by Christmas” is a familiar line from WW1, but this is not simply being said as propaganda by the government… this is agreed upon by multiple government sources and military analysts who have intelligence regarding the situation on the ground in Ukraine.
These analysts really think that Russia’s move has backfired to such an extent, and that Ukraine is pushing back so brilliantly, that Ukraine could have won the war by the end of 2022.
The only person who can stop this war is Putin.
He can keep going for as long as he can keep going!
The western economists are willing and wishing and end to the war, as their economy and energy markets are still dependent on rusky energy supplies, and OPEC hasn't helped one bit in recent days.
He can keep going for as long as he can keep going!
The western economists are willing and wishing and end to the war, as their economy and energy markets are still dependent on rusky energy supplies, and OPEC hasn't helped one bit in recent days.
This is the grim truth. There is a long history of Russia endlessly chucking people at war efforts.
One of the figures I often refer to help put that in to perspective - a total of 450,900 UK lives were lost in the course of World War II.
The Soviets lost a total of 790,000 in the Battle of Stalingrad alone. At one stage they appeared to the world to be utterly defeated in that city but regained control by chucking more human life at it until the axis ran out themselves.
Taken from Sky News this evening :
Russia 'ready to negotiate with Ukraine'
While Russia has insisted for some time that it is keen to enter into negotiations with Ukraine, the news of its imminent withdrawal from Kherson casts the more recent statements in a different - and potentially more significant - light.
"The Russian Federation is ready to negotiate with Ukraine, taking into account the realities that are developing at the moment," Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
This statement was made shortly before Russian generals said forces would be retreating from Kherson, a city that Vladimir Putin had annexed only five weeks ago.
Nevertheless, although scepticism will remain around Ms Zakharova's latest comments, there is at least the possibility that they reflect a more genuine willingness from Moscow to bring its catastrophic invasion to an end.
Whether an agreement can be reached with Kyiv, however, remains very much open to doubt.
Russia 'ready to negotiate with Ukraine'
While Russia has insisted for some time that it is keen to enter into negotiations with Ukraine, the news of its imminent withdrawal from Kherson casts the more recent statements in a different - and potentially more significant - light.
"The Russian Federation is ready to negotiate with Ukraine, taking into account the realities that are developing at the moment," Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
This statement was made shortly before Russian generals said forces would be retreating from Kherson, a city that Vladimir Putin had annexed only five weeks ago.
Nevertheless, although scepticism will remain around Ms Zakharova's latest comments, there is at least the possibility that they reflect a more genuine willingness from Moscow to bring its catastrophic invasion to an end.
Whether an agreement can be reached with Kyiv, however, remains very much open to doubt.
Ok it’s daily Mail but will probably follow in other sources soon, very interesting if true
www.dailymail.co.uk
Putin 'offered surrender terms by West' as he loses control of Kherson
The plan would see Putin give up all territory he currently occupies in Ukraine except Crimea, which would become a demilitarized zone, in return for avoiding war crimes prosecution.
Extremely serious situation at the moment as 2 Russian missiles kill two people in POLAND.
NATO currently in a crisis meeting.
news.sky.com
NATO currently in a crisis meeting.
Russia-Ukraine war: 'Putin's henchmen' threatening UK, Britons warned; Moscow's troops reach key Ukrainian city
Russian troops have reached the Ukrainian city of Toretsk, an anchor of Kyiv's defences in the eastern Donetsk region. Its capture could bring closer the prospect of Moscow securing the entire Donbas. Meanwhile, the MI5 boss has warned Russia wants to create "mayhem" on UK streets.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Just to reassure some who may be nervous, and some who may have thought that WW3 has broken out as a result of these strikes (I fell into that category upon seeing the news…), I found this interesting Twitter thread that talks about how the news today, while of course terrible, does not equal WW3 by any means:
Essentially, the writer talks about how the whole “an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all” saying that’s always thrown around is a referring to Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which says the following:
Whether or not Article 5 is invoked depends on Poland and what they wish to do, as well as the other NATO members. The North Atlantic Council meets and discusses the issue, and they determine the appropriate response. It should be noted that the language of article 5 states “if such an armed attack occurs, each of them… will assist… by taking forthwith… such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force”. This means that there’s a lot of ambiguity in the article that means that NATO does not have to provide an armed response to this attack. The writer of the thread suggests that if Article 5 were to be invoked, a response could be something such as the imposition of a no-fly zone given how comparatively “minor” the attack on NATO was.
Article 5 has been invoked before. The time it was previously invoked was by the USA following 9/11, and the response was the deployment of Operation Eagle Assist, where NATO aircraft patrolled the skies over the USA in the months following 9/11.
I know that’s a lot, but my basic point is; the events of today will likely not lead to wider war on their own, to reassure anyone worried.
Essentially, the writer talks about how the whole “an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all” saying that’s always thrown around is a referring to Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which says the following:
Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty said:
Whether or not Article 5 is invoked depends on Poland and what they wish to do, as well as the other NATO members. The North Atlantic Council meets and discusses the issue, and they determine the appropriate response. It should be noted that the language of article 5 states “if such an armed attack occurs, each of them… will assist… by taking forthwith… such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force”. This means that there’s a lot of ambiguity in the article that means that NATO does not have to provide an armed response to this attack. The writer of the thread suggests that if Article 5 were to be invoked, a response could be something such as the imposition of a no-fly zone given how comparatively “minor” the attack on NATO was.
Article 5 has been invoked before. The time it was previously invoked was by the USA following 9/11, and the response was the deployment of Operation Eagle Assist, where NATO aircraft patrolled the skies over the USA in the months following 9/11.
I know that’s a lot, but my basic point is; the events of today will likely not lead to wider war on their own, to reassure anyone worried.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Who says they were fired by Russia though? Not downplaying the seriousness but we still don't know where they came from.Extremely serious situation at the moment as 2 Russian missiles kill two people in POLAND.
NATO currently in a crisis meeting.
Russia-Ukraine war: 'Putin's henchmen' threatening UK, Britons warned; Moscow's troops reach key Ukrainian city
Russian troops have reached the Ukrainian city of Toretsk, an anchor of Kyiv's defences in the eastern Donetsk region. Its capture could bring closer the prospect of Moscow securing the entire Donbas. Meanwhile, the MI5 boss has warned Russia wants to create "mayhem" on UK streets.
Alsty
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Fury 325
It's unclear but seems possible the missile was Ukrainian, trying to shoot down Russian missiles.
apnews.com
Poland, NATO say missile strike wasn't a Russian attack
NATO's chief and the president of Poland say there are no indications that a missile that fell on Polish farmland and killed two people was a deliberate attack.
apnews.com