Sam's PortAventura review

[Enter Valhalla]

To be honest with you, regarding PortAventura, as much as I don't want them to be closing any rides, clearly their financial constraints mean they [the park management] have little choice.

I think you're right that the park management have little choice, but I blame the bank for this. If the park was family run and run well (obviously Europa is the park I have in mind right now), then I'm certain that PA would be able to afford to run all of these rides. The bank who run it will give the park management very precise budgets based on projected attendance for the days in question, meaning that on quieter days they will have very little money to spend. Sadly, for a bank, it will be all about numbers and I doubt it's even occurred to the bankers running the park that some day's budgets will be so low that closing rides will be the only option. Oakwood suffer from the same problem, they're run by a company based in Madrid who don't see what goes on at the park and will tell the park that on quieter days "this is what you have to spend, do whatever you like but don't over-spend" I know how tough Oakwood management find it to keep to these spending targets yet still open all the rides. This is why this season at Oakwood we saw alot of rides opening late and rides run on rotation. The sad fact is, big companies and banks who aren't based at the parks only see numbers based on attendance figures and don't see the major effects that demands to control costs can have at the parks. On the flipside, on busy days when numbers are good, PA get a much bigger budget to play with so there is logic to it, it just gets taken too far alot of the time.

It just seems incredible that any theme park (especially one of moderate success like PA) actually cannot afford to operate the rides for which it is there in the first place. What is the point of a park if it can't run the rides? Whether it's closing rides entirely or only opening them 2 hours after the park ostensibly opens?

Again, to use the example of Oakwood, over the past few years they have starterd to implement far more weekday closures because on these days the attendance would be so low that they wouldn't be given a good enough budget to operate the park. It's all done on visitor numbers for that specific day and PA will be the same. The fact that they get high numbers at the weekends and in the summer is irrelevant, for the bank it will all be about the day in question. This makes me think that maybe PA should start doing some weekday closures, however that would mean losing revenue gained from the hotels as less people would stay if the park was closed. PA are therefore in a tough position with this one so kind of have to open on days when they really can't afford to be.

The likes of a dodgem ride, or a child-friendly carousel is less (personally) galling, of course. Much like how if Casey Jr. is closed at DLP, I am not about to kick up a fuss. However, I find it terrible that what is probably one of the top few indoor theme park attractions in Europe is closed on a frequent basis. In fact, Templo del Fuego appears to be closed more than it is open. I guarantee you that had I experienced this, my view on PA would probably be higher, as I reckon, with exception to DK and Shambhala, Templo would be my 3rd favourite attraction in the park.

If it's THAT much of a burden, why not remove it, replace it with something less expensive to run?

Yes I do get what you're saying here. Templo is so expensive to run but that doesn't mean that weekday guests should be denied the opportunity to experience it. However, it can accomodate alot of people and so maybe a better alternative would be to only open it for a few hours on off peak days. I know back in 2005 they did hourly or half hourly shows on quiet days depending on demand. This could also be an option as it would ensure that every show was filled and it wouldn't be a case of spending all that money for only a dozen people watching it.

Family owned parks all the way.

Up to a point yes. And if well run then yes. Europa Park have it more or less spot on. However the likes of Drayton Manor and BPB perhaps not so much. As was mentioned earlier in this topic, BPB close a selection of rides, including Dipper on alot of off peak days, this is really bad practice for such a small park.

And to go back to the point I was making earlier, whilst I disagree with any parks closing rides to save money, PortAventura, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Disneyland Paris or otherwise, it's kind of more justified at PA more so than at DLP. PA are kind of forced into doing it by their parent company and sadly they kind of have no choice, they already manage to cut down costs of staff on rides by running DK and Baco on just 2 staff for example, if the bank want them to cut down even further then closing rides has to be their only option. I very much doubt DLP are under the same pressures to control costs as PA and even if they are most of their major rides have teams of around 8, 10, sometimes even more people working on them. Also every DLP ride seems to have an entrance host. Many of these staffing positions could easily be cut in order to save money rather than closing rides. Closing rides to save staffing costs should always be a last resort. For PA it clearly is as their rides run very much on minimum staffing on off peak days, for DLP it can hardly be seen as a last resort since they have entrance hosts on rides which don't even have height restrictions and have no queues and a huge number of staff on platforms. I see DLP as more in the wrong here personally, yet it's always PA that seems to get criticised despite the fact that Europe's number 1 theme park do it too.

 

[AstroDan]

I don't think PA have any more "right" to close rides than Disneyland Paris, to be honest with you. Disneyland Paris arguably have more right, because they're a 365 park and they have to close rides during some periods in order to perform annual maintenance (all Disney resorts do this, so does Efteling and Toverland and other 365 parks).

Most theme parks are owned by a bank in one way or another. I don't think it's fair to use this as an excuse, although it is a reason. Alton Towers tried it on in 2012 and 2013. But they got a load of abuse and ended up performing U-turns. If AT tried it again, the forums will be rife with abuse - and I am sure TowersStreet, TowersTimes, Pleasure Beach Experience would all be criticial. It affects the guest experience, and thus therefore the reputation of the park.

PortAventura is, I hate to say, the worst park I have been to for a) delayed openings and b) closing rides. As you will have seen in the report, it wasn't like the park was dead. I have only known Disneyland Paris close rides (maintenance schedules aside) when the park has, quite literally, been dead - with all rides pretty much walk on. At PA, several queues were over 30 minutes in length, so the park really wasn't all that quiet. It was UK Half Term week, so there were a lot of British guests.

Even on busy days (August for example), Templo del Fuego was only open from around 11.30am to 5pm - when the park was technically open far longer/later.

PortAventura has, to my knowledge, the 5th highest visitor numbers of any other European theme park (1: Disneyland, 2: Europa-Park, 3: Efteling, 4: Tivoli Gardens) - and used to be even higher. It should act more like it!

 

[James]

Regarding Templo del Fuego, they class it as a 'show' now rather than an attraction as it once was. So much like many other shows in the park they do not run (all of) them weekdays. I don't think they feel the need to open it unless it's busy. Not a great excuse although if it does cost the rumoured 500€ - 700€ quote per show then I can't blame them when they are ran by a bank and struggle with money.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I don't think PA have any more "right" to close rides than Disneyland Paris, to be honest with you. Disneyland Paris arguably have more right, because they're a 365 park and they have to close rides during some periods in order to perform annual maintenance (all Disney resorts do this, so does Efteling and Toverland and other 365 parks).

Just to be clear, not once in this topic have I mentioned rides which have been closed for maintenance. That is fair enough, I totally understand why Disneyland Paris have to do that. I'm talking about the rides which close on weekdays and then re-open for the weekend/ holiday periods. This can't be for maintenance. Disney have less right to do this than PA because they have much much higher staffing numbers on all of their rides than PA, so if they need to cut costs they could do it by reducing the staff on ride platforms as opposed to closing rides. PA run major rides on reduced staffing on quiet days and yet their parent company still want them to save more, so they're left with no alternative but to close rides. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that it should be happening.

 

[AstroDan]

I don't think PA have any more "right" to close rides than Disneyland Paris, to be honest with you. Disneyland Paris arguably have more right, because they're a 365 park and they have to close rides during some periods in order to perform annual maintenance (all Disney resorts do this, so does Efteling and Toverland and other 365 parks).

Just to be clear, not once in this topic have I mentioned rides which have been closed for maintenance. That is fair enough, I totally understand why Disneyland Paris have to do that. I'm talking about the rides which close on weekdays and then re-open for the weekend/ holiday periods. This can't be for maintenance. Disney have less right to do this than PA because they have much much higher staffing numbers on all of their rides than PA, so if they need to cut costs they could do it by reducing the staff on ride platforms as opposed to closing rides. PA run major rides on reduced staffing on quiet days and yet their parent company still want them to save more, so they're left with no alternative but to close rides. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that it should be happening.

I would imagine that at quiet times, Disneyland Paris also cut staffing on rides. I cannot for one minute imagine that Space Mountain or BTM will run 2 stations if it's walk on.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I don't think PA have any more "right" to close rides than Disneyland Paris, to be honest with you. Disneyland Paris arguably have more right, because they're a 365 park and they have to close rides during some periods in order to perform annual maintenance (all Disney resorts do this, so does Efteling and Toverland and other 365 parks).

Just to be clear, not once in this topic have I mentioned rides which have been closed for maintenance. That is fair enough, I totally understand why Disneyland Paris have to do that. I'm talking about the rides which close on weekdays and then re-open for the weekend/ holiday periods. This can't be for maintenance. Disney have less right to do this than PA because they have much much higher staffing numbers on all of their rides than PA, so if they need to cut costs they could do it by reducing the staff on ride platforms as opposed to closing rides. PA run major rides on reduced staffing on quiet days and yet their parent company still want them to save more, so they're left with no alternative but to close rides. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that it should be happening.

I would imagine that at quiet times, Disneyland Paris also cut staffing on rides. I cannot for one minute imagine that Space Mountain or BTM will run 2 stations if it's walk on.

Fair point, but when I went in November a few years ago, every ride was walk on at both parks except Crusher's Coaster, yet all the rides in Toy Story Playground, Phantom Manor and Pirates of the Carribbean all had a cast member permenantly standing at the entrance all day, as did all of the major rides. They also had staff running the Fastpass service, despite the fact that barely anyone needed to use it and yet Casey Jr and Les Pays des Contes des Fees were both closed all day and now I see that DLP are doing this with even more smaller rides on off peak days. speaking for myself, I'd much rather they lost all of those entrance hosts, or at least got rid of them on the smaller rides which don't have height restrictions, and used that staffing budget to open the closed rides instead.

 

[Natalie]

just to point out it's Crush's Coaster. Also your issue with the staffing for Phantom and POTC, they are both E ticket rides for Disney, so staffing will always be kept to a decent level and Toystory Playland is still popular as it is the most current thing to open at Studios. Then to address your issue with staffing at Fastpass Distribution they need someone there just incase a guest has issues.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

Also your issue with the staffing for Phantom and POTC, they are both E ticket rides for Disney, so staffing will always be kept to a decent level and Toystory Playland is still popular as it is the most current thing to open at Studios. Then to address your issue with staffing at Fastpass Distribution they need someone there just incase a guest has issues.

I'm sorry natalie but I just don't believe all those staff are needed on rides on dead days, E-ticket rides or otherwise, when other rides elsewhere in the park are being closed to save on staffing costs. Something's not right. I know people get annoyed at PA closing rides to save staff but at least all their other rides run on minimal staffing on these quiet days too, so you don't get the impression that they could be better utilising their resources elsewhere, I certianly do get this feeling at DLP if rides are being closed on quiet days yet Space Mountain, for example, is running with 6-7 staff, yet the trains are being sent round half empty.

 

[AstroDan]

Also your issue with the staffing for Phantom and POTC, they are both E ticket rides for Disney, so staffing will always be kept to a decent level and Toystory Playland is still popular as it is the most current thing to open at Studios. Then to address your issue with staffing at Fastpass Distribution they need someone there just incase a guest has issues.

I'm sorry natalie but I just don't believe all those staff are needed on rides on dead days, E-ticket rides or otherwise, when other rides elsewhere in the park are being closed to save on staffing costs. Something's not right. I know people get annoyed at PA closing rides to save staff but at least all their other rides run on minimal staffing on these quiet days too, so you don't get the impression that they could be better utilising their resources elsewhere, I certianly do get this feeling at DLP if rides are being closed on quiet days yet Space Mountain, for example, is running with 6-7 staff, yet the trains are being sent round half empty.

I would generally agree with the above, although I have no evidence that rides at DLP always run on maximum staffing even on very quiet periods. I have to say though, I cannot imagine that they will. For example, DLP tomorrow - WDS is only 10-6, and main park is 10-7 - so pretty much Disney's shortest possible opening hours. On such days, when there may only be 10 to 15,000 people in the parks, I cannot for one moment imagine both stations will be open on SMM2 or BTM, for example. Surely not...

 

[Enter Valhalla]

Not both stations, but on off peak days in November I saw Slinky Dog Zig Zag running on three staff- an operator, a platform attendant and an entrance host. I also saw the Cars Quatre Roues Rallye run on four staff. Neither ride had a queue or even got enough people to fill all the seats. At Europa Park, the park which is universally agreed to be the shining star of operational excellence, would run similar rides on just one staff member even on their busiest days, so you can't honestly tell me that this many staff are required when there's not enough guests to even fill all the seats.

Furthermore, every major ride and every ride in Toy Story Playground had entrance hosts and fastrack was in operation (again requiring an extra staff member on each ride) despite the fact that the none of the rides even had a queue (except Crushers) That's too many staff for a quiet day and they could easily have used them to open up the closed rides in my opinion.

 

[AstroDan]

Not both stations, but on off peak days in November I saw Slinky Dog Zig Zag running on three staff- an operator, a platform attendant and an entrance host. I also saw the Cars Quatre Roues Rallye run on four staff. Neither ride had a queue or even got enough people to fill all the seats. At Europa Park, the park which is universally agreed to be the shining star of operational excellence, would run similar rides on just one staff member even on their busiest days, so you can't honestly tell me that this many staff are required when there's not enough guests to even fill all the seats.

Furthermore, every major ride and every ride in Toy Story Playground had entrance hosts and fastrack was in operation (again requiring an extra staff member on each ride) despite the fact that the none of the rides even had a queue (except Crushers) That's too many staff for a quiet day and they could easily have used them to open up the closed rides in my opinion.

It could be that Disneyland Paris' Codes of Safe Working Practise dictate that there must be a certain number of staff on every ride at all times... sounds ridiculous, but it might not be something the operational managers have discretion over.

Europa-Park run rides on fairly low numbers of staff all the time; but always achieve good capacity, but that's just the way EP is run.

Europa-Park, I must add, run all rides all day, unlike any of these parks we're discussing. Shining light woohoo!

 

[Enter Valhalla]

It could be that Disneyland Paris' Codes of Safe Working Practise dictate that there must be a certain number of staff on every ride at all times... sounds ridiculous, but it might not be something the operational managers have discretion over.

Europa-Park run rides on fairly low numbers of staff all the time; but always achieve good capacity, but that's just the way EP is run.

Europa-Park, I must add, run all rides all day, unlike any of these parks we're discussing. Shining light woohoo!

True, but COSWoPs can usually be changed if you get approval from your park's H&S department. Anyhow, what I'm saying is that Europa Park run their rides extremely well on minimal staff numbers. At off peak times I would rather DLP did this, and obviously changed their COSWoPs to allow it, as opposed to having loads of staff on the big rides and close some of the smaller rides altogether for the entire day.

The only point I was initially trying to make is that DLP should not be doing closing rides on quiet days, neither should PA, but at least PA don't have crazy high staffing numbers on their small flat rides and coasters at the same time as rides being closed to save staffing costs. PA run the small flats on just one operator in the same way that Europa do (altough obviously not the amazingly high capacity of Europa).

Neither park should close rides to save money at all, but it's galling at DLP to see rides run on high staff numbers when it's quiet and unnecessary, at the same time that rides are closed to cut staff.

 

[Scott]

Do we *know* that other rides at DLP are closed to cut back on staffing costs though? Or are we just making a wild guess?

Id argue that Disney place so many staff on each attraction to try and ensure better guest experience and satisfaction. The more staff about to help and assist, the more chances there are for a guest to have a positive interaction with a cast member.

As for Casey Jr and Pays des Contes - they tend to open late/close early even in high peak season when the park is open until 10pm. I don't know the reason why but I would guess that it is because there are very few of the rides primary audience (very young children) about at early and late times - the same goes for off-peak midweeks.

 

[Plastic Person]

It could be that Disneyland Paris' Codes of Safe Working Practise dictate that there must be a certain number of staff on every ride at all times... sounds ridiculous, but it might not be something the operational managers have discretion over.

Europa-Park run rides on fairly low numbers of staff all the time; but always achieve good capacity, but that's just the way EP is run.

Europa-Park, I must add, run all rides all day, unlike any of these parks we're discussing. Shining light woohoo!

True, but COSWoPs can usually be changed if you get approval from your park's H&S department. Anyhow, what I'm saying is that Europa Park run their rides extremely well on minimal staff numbers. At off peak times I would rather DLP did this, and obviously changed their COSWoPs to allow it, as opposed to having loads of staff on the big rides and close some of the smaller rides altogether for the entire day.

The only point I was initially trying to make is that DLP should not be doing closing rides on quiet days, neither should PA, but at least PA don't have crazy high staffing numbers on their small flat rides and coasters at the same time as rides being closed to save staffing costs. PA run the small flats on just one operator in the same way that Europa do (altough obviously not the amazingly high capacity of Europa).

It's a customer service issue - Disney just operate that way, internationally. If a ride is closed at Disney, it's for maintenance, not staffing cost issues.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

It's a customer service issue - Disney just operate that way, internationally. If a ride is closed at Disney, it's for maintenance, not staffing cost issues.

Oh come on! You can't tell me that you believe Disneyland Paris are closing Casey Jr. and Les Pays des Contes solely for maintenance when they close on weekdays, open at the weekend, then close on the weekdays after, re-open at the weekend, then close on the weekdays etc, etc for the whole of November, January and February.

If a ride was down for maintenance it wouldn't just keep closing and re-opening when it's busy and then closing again in this way, it would close, re-open and then stay open. Also, it's kind of "convenient" that DLP's less popular rides close for much longer maintenance perods than the major ones.

They also close, re-open and close in Armageddon and Captain EO in the same way. You only have to hover over the dates here to see what I mean. http://www.disneylandparis.co.uk/practical-information/before-your-visit/parks-hours.html

I'm sorry to be blunt Plastic Person but I don't believe for one moment that all of the rides I've listed above are closed just for maintenance. :

 

[Scott]

I think essentially what people are trying to get at is that the vast majority of times that DLP close a ride, it is purely due to maintenance or breakdown.

The only real exceptions to this are Casey/Pays - which have short hours on even busy days due to the target demographic as I mentioned above - and EO & Armageddon. EO remains closed because quite frankly even if the park is busy it doesn't attract crowds and I was under the impression it had officially shut now anyway (maybe only opening on massively busy days). Armageddon again doesn't particularly attract crowds anymore and so that is probably the reason for that.

Other than those odd few out (which I agree shouldn't really be closed anyway) Disney really do only usually close rides for rehab.

 

[Enter Valhalla]

I agree with all of the above but I just think it's a bit unfair for people to always have such a pop at PortAventura for doing it when the only attraction of any interest which they close is Templo Del Fuego, when DLP close rides too. Why are PA always labelled as the villains? It seems alot of park, including it would seem Disney, do it.

 

[Sam]

I agree with all of the above but I just think it's a bit unfair for people to always have such a pop at PortAventura for doing it when the only attraction of any interest which they close is Templo Del Fuego, when DLP close rides too. Why are PA always labelled as the villains? It seems alot of park, including it would seem Disney, do it.

Because as Dan said, Templo is pretty much PA's third biggest ride and only dark ride, not a little kiddy coaster. If Disney shut Pirates or the Manor every weekday, people would be up in arms.

 

[Benzin]

Armageddon - Closed due to the high cost of running two show rooms filled with fire and effects, even then it's not the most popular ride on park (and is actually not a very Disney like ride, last time I went on it children were sobbing loudly)...

Captain EO - It's not worth opening full stop... And is probably the most unpopular ride on the resort...

Casey Jr/Storybook Land - Is probably the only two that should be open off-peak, however, they also suffer from being at a dead-end that often means both rides are dead (and in my experiences over the years of visiting, this tended to be the case when they did open on off-peak days)... So it's an arguement of do we staff the two rides (which probably equates to around 10 staff including breaks) even though the rider numbers will be low and not make it worthwhile or just have them shut and no-one will really notice anyway because they're hidden?


None of these rides tend to hold high levels of interest on even peak days... Whilst as PA has very few other attractions in areas at times, the difference it makes (combined with their operational standards) is a world away from the effect that those 4 rides closed at Disney have...