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Scarefest 2013: Discussion
- Thread starter PG Ricey
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KingNemesis
TS Member
Think you mean the 18th Pluk as Saturday is the 19th (You threw me off as I have booked the 19th off) But never the less, it is a shambles currently.. Cut hours, cut dates.. Next thing to ruin it will be getting bright white lights around The Smiler... I mean I can just see it.. It would be amazing seeing the smiler lit up primarily by the marmaliser screen (it's more than capable) but just going to wait for them to put lights in the pit lighting the whole place up ruining it.
It will also allow the Flasher to become more of a effective effect
It will also allow the Flasher to become more of a effective effect
New Scarefest survey is up by Alton Towers: http://survey.altontowers.com/s/AltonTowersResortScarefest
Maybe we can finally get our point accross?
Maybe we can finally get our point accross?
On a scale of 1 – 10 please tell us how good you would rate the following at Scarefest:
Erm, is 1 poor and 10 excellent or 10 poor and 1 excellent??!!!
Edit: Found it on the next page!! (10 = very good, 1 = very poor)
OMG - can I just say I think this survey has come about from what has been discussed on this forum in the Scarefest topic - most of the questions relate to what we have been talking about. Its a pity there is no freetext comments field though or no question to ask "how could we improve things" or rate Scarefest for the previous years compared to last etc.
My concern with the survey is that its difficult to say this years needs to have this, or that you concerns over this years, or that last years wasnt very good because.....
Erm, is 1 poor and 10 excellent or 10 poor and 1 excellent??!!!
Edit: Found it on the next page!! (10 = very good, 1 = very poor)
OMG - can I just say I think this survey has come about from what has been discussed on this forum in the Scarefest topic - most of the questions relate to what we have been talking about. Its a pity there is no freetext comments field though or no question to ask "how could we improve things" or rate Scarefest for the previous years compared to last etc.
My concern with the survey is that its difficult to say this years needs to have this, or that you concerns over this years, or that last years wasnt very good because.....
Ben
TS Founding Member
- Favourite Ride
- Your Dad
Andrew said:Moving away from the rather tedious (
It's usually around this period isn't it?
Well judging by AT Careers 2 have been 'confirmed'
AT Careers said:
ToTT is a given anyway, so that only leaves Circus left to be confirmed. According to rumour, it is coming back... again. :
JAMMY_Jaunts
TS Member
Just a little note, Thorpe Park have today announced that throughout August the parks opening hours have been EXTENDED until 9pm with a selection of (unknown at present) rides available after the prior close of 7pm. This is a great move and something I can only dream would happen at Alton.
BigAl
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Forbidden Journey
If the mazes are the same again I'll do TotT but that's it. Carnival of Screams should be replaced, not done again, and The Sanctuary was improved and made free at the start of this season, so I can't really bothered to pay again.
None of the mazes are particularly good anyway. Feel free to disagree but they've gradually worsened since 2010 and now they're nothing but people jumping out at you without anything else besides a few props to them (though at least the props in Carnival of Screams are of a decent quality and there's plenty of them).
None of the mazes are particularly good anyway. Feel free to disagree but they've gradually worsened since 2010 and now they're nothing but people jumping out at you without anything else besides a few props to them (though at least the props in Carnival of Screams are of a decent quality and there's plenty of them).
Dave
TS Founding Member
BigAl said:
I'm feeling free to disagree, having traveled to a few scare events including on the continent SF mazes are some of the best. Even Carnival at its poorest is better than a lot of mazes out there.
Scare mazes are always predominantly people jumping out, Field always tried hard with a story and the last year resulted in a maze where you where bored for 6 minutes then got a decent scare at the end.
Sanctuary I think had the mix of story and scares done well with a good scene setting at the beginning and then relentless maze. My issue with the early TotT's where you would just get the tension going then you would stop to have a chat with a chef losing all tension that had to be built up again and repeat. Same with Field as the times spent chatting to the actors you knew nothing would likely happen.
I also have no issue with mazes staying a few years so long as their content is altered, especially if that allowed MORE mazes to be introduced. I would rather keep Sanctuary TotT and Carnival and get mazes 4 and 5 than spend money replacing them completely and never expanding.
That's my view anyway.
BigAl
TS Member
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- Forbidden Journey
When I experienced the Boiler House in 2010, it had the perfect mixture of actors interacting, theming and scares. It could isolate people, build suspense and allow for actors to speak with guests perfectly. Nothing I've experienced since has been anywhere near that quality. I didn't get to try Carnival of Screams that year but it looked far more immersive than what we've had the last couple of years.
I find people jumping out for no reason to be repetitive and unimaginative. The mazes that do more than that easily stand out more for me. It's a shame they don't receive as much thought as rides because when done properly, the mazes can be very, very good.
I find people jumping out for no reason to be repetitive and unimaginative. The mazes that do more than that easily stand out more for me. It's a shame they don't receive as much thought as rides because when done properly, the mazes can be very, very good.
Dave
TS Founding Member
BigAl said:
Which is why Carnival failed a bit last year i think, but TotT and Sanctuary don't do that. In Sanctuary you have the sense of a story unfolding (especially with the audio improvements in March), and obviously you have Marmalisation which helps. And TotT although a "jump" maze is possibly the best example of a "jump" maze ever made.
Would like to see Carnival get a story this year though, think it gives the actors more to work from.
I found Boiler House to be a bit hit-or-miss but i don't find masks scary, and Boiler house was always a "jump" maze with excluding the first scene no real story told.
BigAl
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Forbidden Journey
That's kind of why I was hoping it would be dropped and a new maze would be brought in for this season (which may still happen if its return is only rumour).
The improved version of The Sanctuary is the very least I expect from a maze and it's a shame the worse version was pay-for as it wasn't anywhere near as good as what we had at the start of this season. Even so, there's room for improvement with it, but considering it was free it was absolutely fine.
The same for TotT. I found that to be a far better attraction last Scarefest than the others because there was more to it, even though it was only a jumpy maze.
But for me, Boiler House in 2010 stands out the most because of the way you were alone, pounced upon by the policeman, taken to hide before the twins jumped out and started banging on the door of the room you were hiding in, hurried away by the policeman into the boiler house itself, isolated once again before coming into contact with a captive victim of the twins, then finally lead away to confront the twins who were both stood behind bars before breaking out and chasing you out of the maze. It had a great story, wonderful flow, the right mix of interactivity, isolation and scares, and the right amount of theming.
Alton Towers should have built on that idea, not diluted it so that future mazes were less story driven. That's just how I like my mazes though.
The improved version of The Sanctuary is the very least I expect from a maze and it's a shame the worse version was pay-for as it wasn't anywhere near as good as what we had at the start of this season. Even so, there's room for improvement with it, but considering it was free it was absolutely fine.
The same for TotT. I found that to be a far better attraction last Scarefest than the others because there was more to it, even though it was only a jumpy maze.
But for me, Boiler House in 2010 stands out the most because of the way you were alone, pounced upon by the policeman, taken to hide before the twins jumped out and started banging on the door of the room you were hiding in, hurried away by the policeman into the boiler house itself, isolated once again before coming into contact with a captive victim of the twins, then finally lead away to confront the twins who were both stood behind bars before breaking out and chasing you out of the maze. It had a great story, wonderful flow, the right mix of interactivity, isolation and scares, and the right amount of theming.
Alton Towers should have built on that idea, not diluted it so that future mazes were less story driven. That's just how I like my mazes though.
Alastair
TS Team
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- Rise of the Resistance
On the topic of cutting opening hours, I was at Tibidabo today (a small amusement/theme park in Barcelona), which is open from 12pm-11pm. Perfect opening hours. Everyone gets there around lunchtime and then can enjoy the entire day, including riding in the dark. All this from a very small park that needs the custom, and one which (incredibly) is actually more awkward to get to than Alton Towers given its location on top of a mountain.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Mazes are interesting as you will always find a defender for any maze and different things "entertain" people. In 2010 i found everything after the opening scene in BH a bit dull. I don't find a person screaming at me to get out at all worrying, just wondered why the hell they where sticking around to tell me.
Sanctuary (even old) worked for me because it aimed to slowly make things more intimidating. I liked how they deliberately picked a route through the ruins that started in the huge rooms of the Library and that with each new scene the space became smaller, making you feel claustrophobic.
I also like how TotT, carnival (to some extent) and Sanctuary use their queue to get atmosphere and tension in the guests from the beginning. There is as much story even in old Sanctuary as there was in 2010 BH.
I hope Carnival returns this year but i really hope its given a good story and a rework as i think there is lots of potential that is untapped in the theme. A brand new maze wouldn't have been any greater guarantee than an old maze to provide improvement. I also know that last year Carnival wasn't as intended as the finale was cut back due to a space issue with the fire-exits and Trommel, so i suppose i'm curious what they can do with the maze.
Sanctuary (even old) worked for me because it aimed to slowly make things more intimidating. I liked how they deliberately picked a route through the ruins that started in the huge rooms of the Library and that with each new scene the space became smaller, making you feel claustrophobic.
I also like how TotT, carnival (to some extent) and Sanctuary use their queue to get atmosphere and tension in the guests from the beginning. There is as much story even in old Sanctuary as there was in 2010 BH.
I hope Carnival returns this year but i really hope its given a good story and a rework as i think there is lots of potential that is untapped in the theme. A brand new maze wouldn't have been any greater guarantee than an old maze to provide improvement. I also know that last year Carnival wasn't as intended as the finale was cut back due to a space issue with the fire-exits and Trommel, so i suppose i'm curious what they can do with the maze.
BigAl
TS Member
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- Forbidden Journey
Oh don't get me wrong, Boiler House wasn't perfect, but for me it felt more like you were in an unraveling story rather than being left to your own devices in the others. The scares were less frequent but it all had a purpose and it all fit together, right from the moment you were queuing in the darkness by the abandoned news van and crime scene rope to the moment you're chased out of the maze.
With mazes entirely based upon random jumpy moments, if you're not bothered by them, the actors tend to just wander around and talk if banging and shouting doesn't work. The layout of the Sanctuary, Kelman and the effects were all perfect, but had there been one or two other moments where actors continued some kind of tale, I feel it could have been far better than any other maze I've experienced at the park.
Unfortunately it won't happen and it's why I'm not bothered about paying to experience the same thing. Perhaps if tickets were cheaper I'd be a little more bothered.
As for the queues, apart from the Sanctuary, I didn't really get anything thing from the others (though listening to the remixed Toyland Tours audio was nice). Perhaps working on making the queues for TotT and Carnival of Screams as interesting as the Sanctuary's might be something they'd like to work on for this year, or is that too much to ask for?
The reason I'd prefer Carnival to be replaced, not only because it's not as good as it used to be, but because doing something fresh is always more interesting than dragging a concept out for as long as possible. Carnival has had its day, and unless it's improved, I wouldn't be sad to see it replaced.
As I've said before, the Towers, Alton and the surrounding areas have many unique myths and legends to base a new maze upon and I'd love for them to take inspiration from some /something at some point in the near future. Slain Hollow and the supposed catacombs are two brilliant tales to base an attraction of some kind on.
With mazes entirely based upon random jumpy moments, if you're not bothered by them, the actors tend to just wander around and talk if banging and shouting doesn't work. The layout of the Sanctuary, Kelman and the effects were all perfect, but had there been one or two other moments where actors continued some kind of tale, I feel it could have been far better than any other maze I've experienced at the park.
Unfortunately it won't happen and it's why I'm not bothered about paying to experience the same thing. Perhaps if tickets were cheaper I'd be a little more bothered.
As for the queues, apart from the Sanctuary, I didn't really get anything thing from the others (though listening to the remixed Toyland Tours audio was nice). Perhaps working on making the queues for TotT and Carnival of Screams as interesting as the Sanctuary's might be something they'd like to work on for this year, or is that too much to ask for?
The reason I'd prefer Carnival to be replaced, not only because it's not as good as it used to be, but because doing something fresh is always more interesting than dragging a concept out for as long as possible. Carnival has had its day, and unless it's improved, I wouldn't be sad to see it replaced.
As I've said before, the Towers, Alton and the surrounding areas have many unique myths and legends to base a new maze upon and I'd love for them to take inspiration from some /something at some point in the near future. Slain Hollow and the supposed catacombs are two brilliant tales to base an attraction of some kind on.
BigAl
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Forbidden Journey
I'm not expecting to feel as if I'm in a film, I just want a story to be more prominent. Integrating something short and simple would be fairly easy. Even just working on proper finales for The Sanctuary and Carnival of Screams improve them quite a bit. Instead of just a random, meaningless and rather empty final scene, something more substantial to link back to the beginning or the theme / purpose of the place you're in would be great and wouldn't cost as much as creating a new maze, or reworking the entire maze itself. As it stands, an actor sets the scene and that's it.
Integrating something short and simple would be fairly easy. Even just working on proper finales for The Sanctuary and Carnival of Screams improve them quite a bit. Instead of just a random, meaningless and rather empty final scene, something more substantial to link back to the beginning or the theme / purpose of the place you're in would be great and wouldn't cost as much as creating a new maze, or reworking the entire maze itself. As it stands, an actor sets the scene and that's it. 
Kelpie
TS Member
Firstly, I'm not a huge scare maze fan on the most part. I'm not so much scared of people jumping out at me, I just don't like it much. But I have done them (excluding 2010's BH and Carnival) for the last three Scarefests. My one experience of BH, 2011 (in the Black Hole tent) I can't say it did a huge amount for me, so I wasn't upset to see it go.
Of the three years of ToTT I've done, I'd actually say I enjoyed last years the most. The order of rooms and events and characters encountered worked the best of the three years worth in my opinion. I don't mind if they keep it that way again, it's free and a bit of fun.
As for the paid ones though:
Carnival... well the first year, by all accounts, was amazing. And it's declined over time. Last year, the inclusion of the host staff being dressed up as Carny types really added to the atmosphere, the ringmaster was suitably disgusting - but then you had moments like the Dot Man appearing in the maze before the room of dots. Oh dear. And I think you'd truly only find the maze scary if you have a fear of clowns, which made a lot of it quite repetative in those aspects.
It still has potential to be better, I think it can survive another year or two, but it really need's some fresh ideas in it. Last years scare finale wasn't a scare, or much of a finale. Steal a few ideas from the Carnival episode of X-Files or something or the film 'Freaks', the sideshows of yore. What about the 'Spider Girl' that Wardley mentions in his autobiography, mix a jump scare with something more creepy? Maybe it's not very PC which is why those aspects haven't been done...
I haven't done the new Sanctuary (open earlier in the year), only the 2012 maze. I really liked the theme, loved it in fact, but in truth I came out a little disappointed. Admittedly I was following someone really tall, great for keeping dry while being marmalised, but not so helpful for seeing what was going on around me! So to some degree I missed seeing a lot of visuals, but I did note a lot of the finale was the same as ToTT, but more than that I didn't want this to be a 'jump scare' maze, or 'people come up in your face and breathing/groaning horribly' maze which I felt it still ultimately was. I wanted to come out psychologically disturbed. I accept different things scare different people, but I felt more actual narrative, a few points of stopping and having a small scene played out (not necessarily that the actors interract with you during it) with the ever more disturbing Ministry of Joy 'Correcting' people would have made it more unique and different from the other two mazes. It's supposed to be a play on Big Brother & Room 101 or Brazil, brainwashing by the system and the fear of your mind not being your own. Dark yes. Very dark. But the theme is, that's kind of the point.
I think in both cases it wouldn't take much to make them fresh and different for this year. And I think it's important for them to really have different aspects to them for what scares different people. But I'm somewhat doubtful they will be if the budget and dates are being cut that much and an indicator of how the rest might go....
Of the three years of ToTT I've done, I'd actually say I enjoyed last years the most. The order of rooms and events and characters encountered worked the best of the three years worth in my opinion. I don't mind if they keep it that way again, it's free and a bit of fun.
As for the paid ones though:
Carnival... well the first year, by all accounts, was amazing. And it's declined over time. Last year, the inclusion of the host staff being dressed up as Carny types really added to the atmosphere, the ringmaster was suitably disgusting - but then you had moments like the Dot Man appearing in the maze before the room of dots. Oh dear. And I think you'd truly only find the maze scary if you have a fear of clowns, which made a lot of it quite repetative in those aspects.
It still has potential to be better, I think it can survive another year or two, but it really need's some fresh ideas in it. Last years scare finale wasn't a scare, or much of a finale. Steal a few ideas from the Carnival episode of X-Files or something or the film 'Freaks', the sideshows of yore. What about the 'Spider Girl' that Wardley mentions in his autobiography, mix a jump scare with something more creepy? Maybe it's not very PC which is why those aspects haven't been done...
I haven't done the new Sanctuary (open earlier in the year), only the 2012 maze. I really liked the theme, loved it in fact, but in truth I came out a little disappointed. Admittedly I was following someone really tall, great for keeping dry while being marmalised, but not so helpful for seeing what was going on around me! So to some degree I missed seeing a lot of visuals, but I did note a lot of the finale was the same as ToTT, but more than that I didn't want this to be a 'jump scare' maze, or 'people come up in your face and breathing/groaning horribly' maze which I felt it still ultimately was. I wanted to come out psychologically disturbed. I accept different things scare different people, but I felt more actual narrative, a few points of stopping and having a small scene played out (not necessarily that the actors interract with you during it) with the ever more disturbing Ministry of Joy 'Correcting' people would have made it more unique and different from the other two mazes. It's supposed to be a play on Big Brother & Room 101 or Brazil, brainwashing by the system and the fear of your mind not being your own. Dark yes. Very dark. But the theme is, that's kind of the point.
I think in both cases it wouldn't take much to make them fresh and different for this year. And I think it's important for them to really have different aspects to them for what scares different people. But I'm somewhat doubtful they will be if the budget and dates are being cut that much and an indicator of how the rest might go....