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Scarefest 2013: Discussion

Are LED screens covered by the planning/lighting rules? The Smilers screens show how much light they let out, so a simple way for Towers to get round planning rules would be to place some nice LED screens around the park, then at Halloween, show Halloween stuff or something, that way it removes the stupid generators and also offers something permanent.
 
Doesn't the car park for one full day cover the cost of lighting? 4000 X £6

Why cant they add more lighting in areas like katanga? It must cost a small fortune to hire those generators and lights. Premium lighting could cost alot less in the log term. I went to the first ever Fright Nights and was impressed with all the lighting Thorpe did. The biggest thing they did was change the sodium bulbs to colored ones. Surely washing out areas in one color is not that expensive?

I think there is a distinct lack of creativity at the towers where as there is so much potential. If the budget was 25k .

If I had a budget to get long term lighting installed I would:
- Use string lights only where absolutely needed... (The cost a fortune to run, maintain and blubs go walkies).

- Where lighting is required for around the year at different times use LED flood lights. In areas where a theme could be created use LED Colored lighting. (30w (1000w equiv) led systems are £70 each). Areas where this could be effective: Towers Street, M Bay, Lead up to Katanga Canyon, in and around Gloomy Wood etc. I also think this would be an effective way to light up features such as ride track.

- Sodium lighting could be used to also light up large areas and rides, however gels or special bulbs need to be used for special events. If possible make these be permanently colored as they only need to be used during winter events. Areas include: Areas that are open X-sector plaza etc.

This is a very brief idea but considering it costs well over £500 to hire a generator light per week an investment like this would be so cost effective. Plus running costs using long lasting LED would mean that it would pay for itself in a few years.

I am not too sure about this permanent lighting rule, if someone could expand that would be great.
 
SuperMuscleMan said:
Doesn't the car park for one full day cover the cost of lighting? 4000 X £6

Why cant they add more lighting in areas like katanga? It must cost a small fortune to hire those generators and lights. Premium lighting could cost alot less in the log term. I went to the first ever Fright Nights and was impressed with all the lighting Thorpe did. The biggest thing they did was change the sodium bulbs to colored ones. Surely washing out areas in one color is not that expensive?

I think there is a distinct lack of creativity at the towers where as there is so much potential. If the budget was 25k .

If I had a budget to get long term lighting installed I would:
- Use string lights only where absolutely needed... (The cost a fortune to run, maintain and blubs go walkies).

- Where lighting is required for around the year at different times use LED flood lights. In areas where a theme could be created use LED Colored lighting. (30w (1000w equiv) led systems are £70 each). Areas where this could be effective: Towers Street, M Bay, Lead up to Katanga Canyon, in and around Gloomy Wood etc. I also think this would be an effective way to light up features such as ride track.

- Sodium lighting could be used to also light up large areas and rides, however gels or special bulbs need to be used for special events. If possible make these be permanently colored as they only need to be used during winter events. Areas include: Areas that are open X-sector plaza etc.

This is a very brief idea but considering it costs well over £500 to hire a generator light per week an investment like this would be so cost effective. Plus running costs using long lasting LED would mean that it would pay for itself in a few years.

I am not too sure about this permanent lighting rule, if someone could expand that would be great.
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To answer a few things:

- Yes the car park charge for one day does cover the cost of lighting but unfortunately that is now how budgets work.

- The coloured halogen bulbs for Towers can cost up to £300 each. They are apparently cheaper for Thorpe as the halogens they use are not as big.

- In terms of the permanent lighting rule. I believe there is some sort of restriction as to the amount of permanent lighting allowed at Towers. However I do not know any details of this restriction. I'm 99% sure that it does exist though. When driving to Towers in the evening last week I looked over to the park from Denstone and all you could see was a load of bright halogen lights sticking above the tree line. I'm surprised they get away with that to be honest as it does not fit in with the local area at all.

One final point, I'm not entirely sure but is there some sort of H&S regulation that says they need the generator lights in case of a power cut? If all the lights went out and there was no other form of lighting then the park would be a pretty dangerous place.

:)
 
Rob said:
One final point, I'm not entirely sure but is there some sort of H&S regulation that says they need the generator lights in case of a power cut? If all the lights went out and there was no other form of lighting then the park would be a pretty dangerous place.
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HSE requires emergency lighting in areas where there are dangers if normal lighting fails, the type of emergency light is to be suitable for the area it is required in. It must have a supply that is separate from the normal mains supply, in case of power failure.

So strictly, no they don't need generator lights but it is a suitable system for the area they cover.
 
I've never been quite so disgusted by the actions of a Theme Park than I have tonight. Despite there being no reference on any signage anywhere about restricted access to Scaremazes for those who rely on a walking stick, once myself and my family had waited through the entire queue, we were rudely told that my Dad, a disabled man who whilst is able to move around, has to rely on a walking stick to steady himself, would not be allowed into the Sanctuary. Despite us repeatedly explaining the situation to the bratty staff, they still inisisted that he would have to leave it at the entrance, almost with the attitude that he was being unreasonable and unecessarily clingining to his stick!. The most ridiculous claim being he would beat someone with it! He would dare not try had he wished to because of the fear of falling! My father can not walk any significant distance without his stick, so we were told that we would have to leave. We were lead out back through the crowded queue line in a highly embarassing and humiliating manner.

Whomever took the discriminatory decision to exclude users of walking sticks should be ashamed. It is disability discrimination at it's most ludicrous and unfair.

Those girls operating the maze tonight should be ashamed of their attitude toward a disabled man who received nothing but contempt.

Alton Towers should be ashamed that they ruined the day of a disabled but seasoned scare maze visitor and his family.

This is an absolute disgrace that I intend to take further with Merlin managment to ensure nothing quite so awfully discriminatory happens again at their attractions. Hell, it felt more like a fecking ATOS assessment rather than a fun family day out!
 
This smacks to me of staff with not enough training and/or common sense. Simply not good enough for a brand such as Alton Towers. I'm not just having a pop for the sake of it either, but I've not been impressed with many of the new staff I've encountered in recent years. The way some of them interact with guests leaves a lot to be desired in many cases throughout the park. It's almost like they detest having to put themselves out to be pleasant in many cases. To put it quite simply, the place seems a lot less helpful these days when it comes to guest comfort and pleasure. Silly me for thinking that those things should be quite high on a list of priorities at such a place.

Report on staff: Could do better in many cases (not all).
 
While they should attempt to be nice, I will defend towers by saying, they dont know you and you don't know what they are going through, in scare mazes, actors often get attacked, not maliciously but people freak out and the swings are made.

In alton towers they are even more so paranoid about H&S not just for their customers but for their staff, so I understand why they wouldn't let someone bring in a stick, you could potentially hurt someone with it.
It's no more discrimination then saying people with heart, neck or back problems can't ride nemesis.

Though it should be displayed on signage.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk
 
I'm afraid I am going to side with the Towers on this one. The mazes are dark, with uneven floors, steps, and if your dad requires a walking stick to steady himself then there is the risk of him falling, unfortunately.

HOWEVER....... you should not have queued in the first place. There should have been signs at the entrance to the maze, and staff checking tickets at the entrance to the mazes should have informed you that your dad wouldnt be able to go in. Having waited all that time and then to be told infront of everyone I agree is the wrong way of doing it, but from a safety point of view from the Towers, I can understand their position.
 
Yeah completely agree with the above. Can see why they refused entry, but you should have been told prior to queuing.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
In terms of my Father's saftey, he is ambulent and suffers no problems providing he has his stick. He has gone into mazes at Alton Towers, Thorpe Park, Chessington, Madam Tussauds, The London Dungeons, Tulley's Farm, and others and never ever had trouble before. This was a shock. Alton Towers has an obligation to make reasonable provisions for disabled people. They failed to do this and are therefore operating an anti-disabled policy. We were even told at Guest Services that this ought never happened and that they will be investigating the entertainments team, although I'm sure that was to get rid of us.

If you cannot run a maze that is fit for ambulent disabled people, then you should not run it at all. Otherwise you are sending a clear message that disabled people are unwelcome at scarefest.
 
As above I have no issue with the rule, Towers don't know you and can't profile all guests. A walking stick is a potential weapon and lots of actors get attacked. I would also hazard a guess that if you can't make it round the maze without the stick it's not a suitable terrain to be entering (as it's a historical building disability access is legally limited and H&S over-rules disability access hence why they can refuse access to rides for certain disabilities).

But also as above its worth a complaint as there should be some indication of this rule at the entrance, there are no safety info boards at the entrance and the ones at the batching area don't make mention of this rule.
 
I repeat, my father has been in scaremazes in the Towers before. Merlin has always previously allowed those with walking sticks to make their own judgement based on information given.

The irony of acccusing a disabled person (who by the way had their Blue hologramed badge to prove he isn't a nutter with a stick for beating) is that actors are more likely to be punched by any of the other visitors than whacked by a stick that the owner requires to balance.
 
One of two things has likely happened.

Either a member of staff is being an idiot, or someone has been wacked by a walking stick during the event so far.

Either way, it's been handled terribly as the minimum requirement is you don't let someone queue for something if you are then going to make entry to the attraction difficult.
 
They don't let you take umbrellas into a maze, so I can see why they won't allow walking sticks.

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This is a two section issue. First off, the boards. The policy should be made clear, let's remember these people (AFAIK) are actors, they aren't standard Towers staff. Clear guidelines need to be in force.

Secondly though, this is a conga line attraction. It is dark, disorientating, and goodness knows at points at the front of the line twice yesterday I had problems finding my way around, especially in the strobe bits.

I think the manner it was handled sounds from your report disgusting, the boards need to be addressed, but I not surprised that a stick is not permitted.

Meat Pie said:
The irony of acccusing a disabled person (who by the way had their Blue hologramed badge to prove he isn't a nutter with a stick for beating) is that actors are more likely to be punched by any of the other visitors than whacked by a stick that the owner requires to balance.
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That suggests all people with disabilities are not capable of getting spooked/violence. That's just not true. You kind of used a reverse prejudice there dude! ;) - Seriously though, a blue badge does not automatically mean to the staff that this person is not capable of a violent act - or for that matter, someone else grabbing his stick even.

Having physically disabled relatives, I am actually speaking with experience, this is an old building & in the 1800s consideration towards disabilities in building personal folly homes was not exactly high on the agenda. That isn't Towers fault.

Personally I am more surprised you have been through the Towers mazes before, fair play to your Dad for doing it of course, on the whole though Towers provisions for disabled guests is pretty decent really.
 
Clearly the customer service you received was poor. And if walking sticks are not permitted in the maze then it should be communicated on the information board at the entrance. I personally can understand why they might not be allowed. There are a lot of uneven surfaces and stairs in the maze. As Pete said in a recent talk H&S at Towers for Scarefest is unbelievably crazy, much more so than other similar events. Walking sticks may be have been allowed in the past but there is every chance the rules have changed for this year.

However I agree that you should not have had to queue all that time to find out first.

:)
 
If your dad has been through all those horror mazes before then yes I agree its surprising he has been refused this time. Can I just ask you however, in the Carnival there was the section with the inflatable walls you had to squeeze through, and the section in ToTT where you had to literally crawl through - if your dad came to a section like this in the maze, what would he do? Could he negotiate that section ok or would he be unable to do it? Not having a pop in anyway, just curious?
 
My review of Scarefest 2013:

Terror Of The Towers:
I enjoyed TOTT this year, the sets and acting was good. And the scares that did actually startle me were good. Good jump scares and build up watching the video before entering the maze. But once again, the first room was EMPTY. This happened to me last year also and I assume it's not meant to be empty. But it was. But all in all apart from that it was an alright maze.

The Sanctuary:
I've always enjoyed The Sanctuary, and this year was no different. The only thing I didn't like is that the layout was the same as it's always been. And having had a few run throughs in The Sanctuary, it can be a bit tedious. However, I think the acting, scares, and overall feel of the maze this year was better. I found it much spookier and scarier. Also the Marmalisation Scene was a lot wetter! I don't remember getting sprayed that many times before with that "apple pie" scented water. (Didn't smell much like apple pie either) The scene was a lot longer this Halloween.

Zombies! Scare Zone:
It's Zombies, it was never going to be a 5 star walk through, so I didn't expect it. But what I did get was actually some decent jump scares to my surprise. With some actors making me jump back. I also thought the theming was better this year. The much smaller enterance also made it much more tense to begin with.

Carnival of Screams:
Sadly, I still haven't experienced this maze. After all the good reviews I was sort of gutted. The reason I couldn't get on and have a go is because during our queue. (Which was 1 hour 45) there was some sort of "technical difficulty" what this actually was I don't know. But we'd had enough of waiting and after already waiting 1 and a half hours in The Smiler queue and that broke down, we'd basically had enough.

All in all, a decent Scarefest. The mazes were better than last year. And the atmosphere was good. The only thing that I didn't like was there wasn't any Scarefest mugs in Towers Trading like promised? Oh well.
 
Jables said:
Terror Of The Towers:
I enjoyed TOTT this year, the sets and acting was good. And the scares that did actually startle me were good. Good jump scares and build up watching the video before entering the maze. But once again, the first room was EMPTY. This happened to me last year also and I assume it's not meant to be empty. But it was. But all in all apart from that it was an alright maze.
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The first room where you crouch in ToTT has always been and always will be empty of actors due to health and safety.
 
I think the first room being empty builds up the tension personally. The group I was with on my visit were very on edge going through the first room.
 
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