• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

SeaWorld meltdown

I try to avoid these discussions.

However if you're going to Orlando and have the Flexiticket that includes Seaworld, haven't you technically already paid to go there?

You should go because Kraken is one of the best coasters in Orlando. In my opinion.
 
I don't think he mentioned anything about which tickets he had bought, if any?

For some people, principles are more important than rollercoasters, even on a forum such as this.
 
I didn't mean that he had, I meant visitors in general, sorry.

It's a very sorry state of affairs and I have never been interested in these shows - but I do like that coaster quite a lot, and while I'd probably not buy a separate ticket for the park, if I had a Flexi I would still go so I could ride it.

It's a shame that because of the Seaworld situation that enthusiasts will miss out on two good B&Ms and a Mack watercoaster, however whether you view the show or not (not in my case), you're still an attendance figure as it's included in the ticket. Unfortunately I would assume you are an attendance figure if you buy the Flexi-ticket (not sure how this works, correct me if that's wrong) - but it's something to keep in mind when purchasing your tickets.

The above can be said about Busch Gardens as well which obviously has a lot of animals - also on the Flexi-Ticket.
 
Laura said:
The above can be said about Busch Gardens as well which obviously has a lot of animals - also on the Flexi-Ticket.

And indeed, owned by the same company. Who are also owned by Blackstone. Who own major shares in... Merlin.

I wouldn't go that far though, but personally I don't know whether I'd visit Seaworld now. They still do some great conservation work, but I don't think it offsets the Shamu situation, which is pretty dire as far as I'm concerned. Although I always hated the over long shows and their patriotic 'whales for the troops' segments, which are like something out of Brass Eye.
 
SeaWorld have a legal setback to deal with as trainers are no longer allowed in the water.

In a 2-1 ruling, the U.S. Court of Appeals denied SeaWorld's appeal of citations issued by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration following the death of trainer Dawn Brancheau in Orlando.

Months after the killer whale Tilikum drowned Brancheau in February 2010, OSHA cited the company for endangering the safety of its killer whale trainers. In June 2012, an administrative law judge upheld the citation and ordered SeaWorld to pay a $7,000 fine. The judge also sided with OSHA's recommendation that SeaWorld keep its trainers behind barriers or a safe distance away when working with killer whales.

SeaWorld appealed that ruling, but the court ruled Friday that the company's petition for review was denied. It wasn't immediately known if SeaWorld would now petition the U.S. Supreme Court.

OSHA believes the best way for SeaWorld to protect its employees is to keep them behind barriers or a safe distance away from its killer whales.

In written briefs filed ahead of November's hearing, attorneys for both sides focused on the "General Duty Clause" of the Occupational Safety Health Act, which requires employers to provide a place of employment "free from recognized hazards" that are likely to cause death of physical harm.

OSHA lawyers said SeaWorld violated the General Duty Clause by exposing trainers to the recognized hazards of working in close contact with killer whales. OSHA cites SeaWorld's own internal reports documenting around 100 incidents of killer whale aggression, including "biting, hitting, lunging toward, pulling on, pinning, dragging, and aggressively swimming over SeaWorld trainers." The agency believes those incident reports establish a pattern of unpredictable and dangerous working conditions.

OSHA argues SeaWorld's attempts to reduce the risk have failed, leading to multiple injuries and the deaths of two trainers (Besides Brancheau, OSHA includes the death of Alexis Martinez, a trainer employed by a marine park in Spain who was killed by a SeaWorld-owned orca two months earlier.).

SeaWorld acknowledged in written legal briefs that there is a risk working with killer whales, but the company believes it has adequately minimized that risk through a comprehensive animal training program and other safety protocols. SeaWorld's attorney argues that the OSH Act does not require an employer to provide a risk-free workplace, but rather reduce significant risks. As for those incident reports detailing aggressive whale behavior, SeaWorld asserts the documents "do not show recognition of ongoing hazards. Instead they show resolution of potential problems."

SeaWorld says having close contact with killer whales is integral to their business of attracting, inspiring and educating audiences, while also being necessary to provide the whales with proper veterinary care.

Oral arguments weren't at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, where SeaWorld's appeal was filed. Instead, for the first time ever, the chief judge decided to move the proceedings to an auditorium at Georgetown University Law Center so students can witness the debate.

In their written briefs, SeaWorld argued that OSHA's general duty clause is unconstitutionally vague and violates employers' due process rights by not providing notice of prohibited working conditions. OSHA contends that SeaWorld's prior knowledge of killer whale aggression towards employees causing injury and death is adequate warning.

ClickOrlando source
 
I didn't think the trainers have been allowed in the water since the death in 2010 anyway and the shows where changed so trainers didn't enter the water.
 
Maelstrom said:
I didn't think the trainers have been allowed in the water since the death in 2010 anyway and the shows where changed so trainers didn't enter the water.

Yes, and the story that Rowe posted makes it clear that the park have appealed against this earlier decision and lost.
 
Negative publicity is continuing to have detrimental impacts on SeaWorld after stocks fell by almost 33% today. This is of course influenced by a number of factors, in my opinion most likely the continuing falling attendance, the termination of contract with Southwest Airlines, and increasing competition from Universal following Diagon Alley. It's becoming clearer to me how much Blackfish is having a greater impact in contrast to competition, and no matter how much SeaWorld seem to be fighting it, I'm wondering what will be next?

I've had a look at plenty of articles about this, and information seems to be pretty varied, but I guess this is influenced heavily by bias from divided views on the subject. Having personally weighted up both sides, I've come to the conclusion that I would really not be comfortable visiting again. I feel that it is wrong that they are continuing to breed the whales and that this practise should come to an end, but I recognise it is difficult to come to a solution given that most have been in captivity all of their lives. That's my view in a nutshell anyway.

Listed a few articles below that some may find interesting:
CNN
Wall Street Journal
The Dodo
 
Last edited:
Although the share price has dropped 33%, while not great the financial report isn't as bad as that makes things seam- attendance in Q2 has risen by 0.3% on same period last year. Revenue has dropped slightly from $411m to $405m (1%) this is due to a slight drop in average guest spending. The park state this is due to an unfavourable attendance mix, and attracted more people with less money to spend with offers etc and not so many of the wealthy tourists in the key destination markets (Florida and CA). No doubt Harry potter expansion has hurt them a bit in orlando as well.

They have announced they plan some internal cost saving initiatives in 2015 that will enable them to invest in more new attractions at their destination parks. Plus have signed a letter of intent with Australian theme park operator village roadshow to open new Sea World parks in India Russia and other pan Asian markets .

I
 
It's really interesting to see it from that perspective :) I still feel that the public are being put off visiting due to the continuing negative publicity, but perhaps the media are exaggerating this. Can't say I would support any new SeaWorld parks opening, as I would like to see the end of the continuous breeding of the captive whales and dolphins as already mentioned. But, I am willing to recognise that this is a divided subject and the media are good at interpreting the data in a way that promotes their own views.

Therefore I guess what I'm trying to say is that as the media tend to be taking the view against SeaWorld, most information I have seen has been skewed in this way, promoting increased negative publicity for them when in fact things might not be as bad for them as I thought? It's very interesting to think about indeed. Not that my views of the captive whale and dolphin industry have changed, however :p
 
Last edited:
I fully understand people's views that don't want to visit. However I am still visiting when in orlando this year, won't be watching the orca show or dolphin show though, not that makes any difference as Seaworld already have my money but as want to also visit aquatica and Busch gardens came part of the ticket anyway.

I do wonder though people thoughts who choose not to visit about visiting Epcot and their living with seas exhibit, if I remember correctly they keep dolphins and manatees in much smaller pools than seaworld do and whole much smaller animals than orcas I find it a fairly depressing exhibit compared to how presented at seaworld (outside the shows).
 
There's a broader argument to be made against any captivity, but I think a lot of people have been particularly affected by the Orca situation at Seaworld, which is rather extreme. Even before Blackfish, it was proving to be dangerous and illogical. Seaworld do some great work when it comes to environmental issues, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to mistreat their whale stock. It's a complicated issue, and when you're trying to get people into your theme parks, there can be no complicated issues.

However, it looks like attendance has been down consistently throughout the chain, with many people suggesting mismanagement and poor choices at pretty much every level.
 
SeaWorld are due to make a massive investment announcement later today.

Glad to see the company doing badly. Keeping whales in captivity is crap and there's no good excuse for it really in 2014.
 
Indeed, the annoucement is due early morning over in the US so I guess we can expect it sometime in the few hours. They have just signed a letter of intent to work with the Village Roadshow group with the intention to develop new SeaWorld branded parks in Russia, India and Pan-Asian destinations. So the annoucement could be linked to that.

:)
 
No new rides, I've heard it's that they're simply upgrading the habitats for the whales. Obviously a reaction the negative publicity of late.
 
I've gotta say I've watched "Blackfish" and being an animal lover many of the facts that were exposed are heartbreaking. However I do believe that Sea World are now providing adequate care for these beautiful animals. They cannot be released into the wild as they have grown up in captivity, the same applies for any other zoo.

Most other zoo animals such as lions,tigers,giraffes etc. actually lead very happy and fulfilled lives as any good zoo should give adequate space and habitat for them.

And no I don't think that whales should have ever been brought into captivity as they do find it hard to cope both socially and physically in captivity. This happened many years ago and this kind of practice would not be entertained by Sea World nowadays, so the best they can do is try their best to care for them and provide suitable habitats.

With regards to animals being made to entertain, I'm a bit iffy on that subject, If the animal gets a feeling of fulfillment and joy out of it then fine, if not then they really shouldn't be doing it. If the park can create large, landscaped tanks whilst keeping the whales in the right social group this would be the best action Sea World could make to combat the issue. They should also not be made to entertain.

It really is a tricky subject as whales require so much more than any other animal due to their size and way of living. Mind you, elephants? Thats what i mean by its tricky, i'm sitting on the fence here!

This is an interesting artical actually pointing out all inaccuracies in blackfish: http://da15bdaf715461308003-0c725c9...ist-of-inaccuracies-and-misleading-points.pdf
 
Last edited:
I have split thoughts about this. Having my views what I would love the most is to see the end of the captivity and the proposed idea of sea pens that would allow them to be in a far more natural environment. However, I'm obviously not a marine expert so this might not necessarily be the best thing for them as much as we would like it to be, who knows.

SeaWorld aren't going to give up what they're doing with their orcas, so I guess this is better than just doing nothing, as much as I don't like to see them there.
 
Last edited:
Whether or not you have an opinion of it being right or wrong to have them in captivity - the plans that SeaWorld have announced are certainly a step in the right direction.
 
Top