• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

SeaWorld meltdown

The new enclosures for the orcas sound like what SeaWorld should have had all along. No doubt it has come about because of Blackfish, so at least the film has done some good. However, I can't see it changing the minds of anyone who is against orca captivity in the first place.

Having looked over the Blue World Project press release website thingy, I think it looks and sounds incredible. If you're going to keep large marine creatures in captivity, that's how it should be done. SeaWorld are usually pretty good at making enclosures (the current orca ones excluded), so I do think that if it comes to fruition it will be as good as they say.
 
No mention as to whether they're going to continue with the show programme, though. I'm much more comfortable with the idea that the whales might not be forced to perform. One of the worst things about the current exhibit is the lack of decent observation/education points.
 
It is nice to see there is going to be an upgrade to their environment. To have them free would be better. however they have been in captivity, and the history of survival of released animals that have been in captivity is poor.

So here comes the catch 22. release them and hope they adapt or keep them in captivity and hope changing their environment give them a better life.

(bit of a devil's advocate post)
 
This is bad news, because it shows how determined SeaWorld are to keep their crappy Orca racket going.

They're not going to give it up without a massive fight, because for some baffling reason, many people seem to enjoy the god-awful Shamu shows.

This is an improvement for the whales in the short-term, but not in the long-term.
 
I don't think they are ever going to get rid of their main brand image. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it just isn't going to happen.

:)
 
Sam said:
This is an improvement for the whales in the short-term, but not in the long-term.
Click to expand...

Once built it will be a long term improvement for the Orcas. They can't be released, they can't survive in the wild. So a decent habitat will be a big benefit.
 
jon81uk said:
Once built it will be a long term improvement for the Orcas. They can't be released, they can't survive in the wild. So a decent habitat will be a big benefit.
Click to expand...
Of course though, the flipside is obviously that the long-term improvement you've mentioned there is still actually a short-term solution to the ultimate goal of orcas not being in captivity.

Captive Orcas won't survive in the wild - so should we have them in tanks at all?

*I'm just playing devils advocate by the way, as I don't actually have a strong opinion either way*
 
Scott said:
Captive Orcas won't survive in the wild - so should we have them in tanks at all?
Click to expand...

Yes, the education of guests to the SeaWorld parks is a huge benefit. Although many people do go just to see "the Shamu show" they do learn about marine life whilst at SeaWorld.

I guess SeaWorld could promise to end breeding of Orcas, that way in 20-30 years when the existing whales are dead they won't have any. But given they are spending millions on new tanks I don't see them ending the breeding programme.

I also don't have a huge opinion either way but I don't see the any point closing SeaWorld and killing all the animals when the conservation and education work they do is still going.
 
My knowledge of Orcas is very limited but from a quick search it appears that those in captivity live for around 25 years. And as has been said once they have been in captivity they are unable to survive in the wild. I don't know how old SeaWorld's Orcas are (I'm guessing it varies) but let's say SeaWorld decided to make all those that are against them keeping the animals happy and stop. They know they can't release them so they just decided to kill them all. I'm pretty sure that would cause a massive uproar as well!

Once again I am not defending SeaWorld as I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter but thought I'd put this thought forward. I'm guessing people who don't want them to keep Orcas wouldn't just want them killed off.

:)
 
jon81uk said:
Yes, the education of guests to the SeaWorld parks is a huge benefit. Although many people do go just to see "the Shamu show" they do learn about marine life whilst at SeaWorld.
Click to expand...

The Shamu Show itself isn't particularly educational, though. They gloss over the most fascinating things orcas do (hunting), and instead focus on flashy tricks or bizarre American patriotism, with sentimental imagery thrown in every now and then about how we're 'one planet' and such.

I support the idea of an amazing enclosure; I believe zoos serve an important educational purpose, and the more comfortable the animals are the better. It allows them to relax and you see them more in their natural state. SeaWorld CAN do incredible enclosures, and I hope this meets the high expectations.
 
They only have three options. Leave the tanks and orcas as they are now. Build bigger tanks and let them have more freedom and be a little more comfortable. Kill all the orcas.

Whatever option they make people will still be pissed. But bigger tanks is the best option. Leaving them will just keep negativity coming at SeaWorld. Killing them would outrage the world (although funnily enough loads of zoos, including ones in the UK, have killed animals that are in distress). So the only way to calm the negativity is to do something that appears positive towards the orcas welfare.

In reality the bosses couldn't care less. The profits and their wages take priority. This is just a measure to ensure neither of those things are affected and people shut up moaning.
 
If they are clever, the new tanks will be designed in such a way that they can be used for something else when the whales eventually snuff it.
 
They just need to put a stop to the shows now, then people might start to believe they care about education and animal welfare.
 
Well it has been annouced this week that they are dropping their appeal against the decision to not allow trainers in the water with the whales during the shows.

:)
 
Trainers haven't been in the water since 2010 though, and the only reason they've dropped it is because they knew it was a lost cause, especially after the publicity surrounding Blackfish. In this day and age there really should be no call for performing animals - trainers in the water or not.
 
Is ending the breeding programme an option? They can't be let out into the wild, killing them is barbaric, and no matter how well you enclose them, they're still enclosed.
 
James said:
They only have three options. Leave the tanks and orcas as they are now. Build bigger tanks and let them have more freedom and be a little more comfortable. Kill all the orcas.

Whatever option they make people will still be pissed. But bigger tanks is the best option. Leaving them will just keep negativity coming at SeaWorld. Killing them would outrage the world (although funnily enough loads of zoos, including ones in the UK, have killed animals that are in distress). So the only way to calm the negativity is to do something that appears positive towards the orcas welfare.

In reality the bosses couldn't care less. The profits and their wages take priority. This is just a measure to ensure neither of those things are affected and people shut up moaning.
Click to expand...
True, management at SeaWorld view the whales as a commodity, a product. This is capitalism at its finest - SeaWorld are currently bombarding the general public with propaganda in order protect one thing, their wallets. Their PR team is in overdrive, constantly tweeting those who mention Blackfish in the hope they'll view their website in which facts are distorted about the care of their killer whales. SeaWorld could sue the makers of Blackfish for slander, they won't, because you can't sue the truth.

The announcement of the new tanks is nothing more than a plaster, it's not a real solution to the problem - whales are not designed for captivity. We could never build a tank large enough to house these animals, they swim vast distances every day. It should also be noted SeaWorld has publicly said this project has been in the pipeline for 'years' (something former senior SeaWorld trainers dispute), the announcement also comes soon after the company's credit rating was lowered to junk status (not worth investing in) and before they even have planning permission to build the 'habitat' (as SeaWorld calls it).

Yes, the captive whales probably wouldn't survive in the wild but SeaWorld can take an active approach to innovating and changing their product offering in order to cater to changing demand. People look at the below image from years ago and are shocked and horrified that we could be so barbaric. I guarantee people will look back at SeaWorld and say the same - forcing whales to perform to loud music and do tricks for food - where's the education value in that?

BtB6tqfIMAAjN4I.jpg


The company needs to end the captive breeding program (captive inbreeding program would probably be more accurate) and stop the whales from performing for food. Relocate the whales to a sea pen and allow them to live the rest of their lives with dignity.

I don't believe the announcement of the Blue World Project has anything to do with the animals welfare - it's purely damage control. Without Blackfish this would not be happening. It unfortunately is the world we've come to live in - capitalism at its finest.
 
Last edited:
Really couldn't agree with you more. As much as SeaWorld do good work for conservation, I still feel like they use this as an excuse to justify themselves and get the public on their side. Research has taught us so much about how intelligent these animals really are, and the realities associated with keeping them in these environments; Yet, the breeding programme is ongoing, and investing so much into these tanks shows that their motives really aren't changing at all. The orcas bring great income to the park, and clearly they aren't willing to give it up.

People will defend them and identify the ways Blackfish can be misleading, which I am aware of, but it doesn't distract from the fact that this practise is still wrong and outdated. Very few circuses use animals anymore, yet it is still ongoing at SeaWorld - when will it change?
 
SeaWorld will change, it's just a question or when and will it be too late? The change will inevitably be due to consumer pressure (which will be hurting the park financially) or even in a change in government policy which forces them to change their operations.

It's interesting you mention SeaWorld's efforts to animal conservation. I know the park has recently pledged £10m to conservation efforts but if we look at their conservation efforts pre-Blackfish:

In 2009 just under £1m was pledged to the SeaWorld Busch Garden Conservation Fund, this is the usual amount that's pledged per year. Most of this money came from charity/industrial/park guest/online donations etc. Of the full amount only 22% ($109,126) came from the Blackstone Group, the company that has a majority stake in SeaWorld. Lets put this in perspective. That year SeaWorld Entertainment, Inc. (which Blackstone owns) made £1.4bn, 0.0078% of that was given to conservation. Let me add this fund is shared between a few parks, this fund isn't solely for SeaWorld's 'benefit'.

Conservation efforts? What conservation efforts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top