Should prisoners have the right to vote?

[Sam]

This issue has been in the news recently because the European Court of Human Rights (which is completely separate from the European Union!) has demanded that Britain comply with its ruling that banning prisoners from voting is a breach of their human rights.

It looks like parliament is going to refuse to comply, thus putting us in jeopardy of breaking the international obligations that we signed up for when we joined the court. Critics have argued that it gives less democratic countries in Europe like Russia a good excuse not to listen to the ECHR's rulings if countries like Britain can pick and choose what to comply with.

On the other side of the coin, many feel it's an issue that the UK parliament should decide. They also feel that prisoners have many of their other rights taken away when they are imprisoned, so why not their right to vote and participate in civic society as well?

Here's a recent Question Time discussion on the issue.

QT: Prisoner rights to vote (10Feb11)

What do you think?

 

[DiogoJ42]

Could be worse, in America, you can't vote ever again even when you get out of jail.

 

[Alastair]

No. I feel justified in saying that it should be inevitable that when you've committed a crime, you should have all of your civil liberties removed as part of the punishment. And if not all, there is no way prisoners should be allowed to vote. They made a choice to commit the crime, they should pay the price.

 

[Sam]

No. I feel justified in saying that it should be inevitable that when you've committed a crime, you should have all of your civil liberties removed as part of the punishment. And if not all, there is no way prisoners should be allowed to vote. They made a choice to commit the crime, they should pay the price.

Do you not think it would be good as part of rehabilitation though, encouraging them to participate in society and show an interest in current affairs?

 

[BarryZola]

My view on this is that it is quite inconsequential if they have the vote anyway, being such a small minority.

I understand the moral debate but most wouldn't vote anyway as my experience would lead me to believe. I genuinely can't believe how this issue makes the news as often as it does.

There are much better things to put your thoughts into than worrying about this 'non-issue' as I would regard it.

 

[Meat Pie]

People get so hung up on revenge they seem to forget that we should want to rehabilitate criminals.

If people don't feel that they have a sense of belonging or ownership in their own society and community, then they are more likely not to respect the law which protects said society.

Do I think that it should be a blanket right for all prisoners? That I'm a bit wary of. However, I do absolutely think it is essential that the vote be given to prisoners that show progress or who are approaching the end of their sentences. This must happen if we are to turn these peoples' lives around and make upstanding, valued citizens out of them.

Social and democratic policy is key to crime prevention.

 

[Jonathan]

It's a thorny subject, this. A while back, I would've said 'No prisoners should be allowed to vote whilst they're in jail', but now, that stance has mellowed somewhat. A blanket right for all prisoners could cause problems, but as Meat Pie has suggested, limiting it to those who are showing progress or nearing the end of their sentences would be a sensible compromise. Then there's the question of whether those on whole life sentences should be given the right to vote. My view is that they should not, unless they can show a considerable amount of improvement in their behaviour and conduct in their behaviour - which is quite unlikely, in my view, given the nature of the crimes that these people were convicted of.

 

[Fredward]

No. Once they are out sure, but while they are in no.

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk, please excuse any ridiculous mistakes!

 

[Harv]

Before tonight; no. But Sam's excellent point that it forms part of rehabillitation has swayed me somewhat, so yes. It's not often that I change my mind so easily.

 

[RustyRider]

No....just no. This may cause controversy here and you may think I'm stereotyping, but lets face it, most people who break the law and end up in jail are less then reputable people. Most wouldn't vote if they weren't in there anyway. It's just some bullshit game once again to exploit the 'political correctness gone mad' pseudo that we live in in this day and age!

I'm sorry but if you commit a crime and get sentenced...you lose some rights. Do we really think that giving them the right to vote will wean them slowly back into normal society? They're not animals, I'm pretty sure they're fully aware of their actions and why they're in there...pay the price, deal with it and serve the sentence you've been given for breaking the law!

 

[Meat Pie]

It's outstandingly clear to anyone that those arguing in favour of Prisoner voting in the name of rehabilitation are not claiming that that alone will "wean them back into normal society". You are grossly exaggerating the point to discredit what is a very reasonable argument.

Giving them the vote is just one of many measures that needs to be used to restore a mutually beneficial relationship between ex-criminals and society.

The way you suggest they are outside of "normal society" is in itself a recognition that there is a detachment between those who commit crimes and the rest of society. It's this disconnect that must be addressed, otherwise you are just throwing someone in a cell for a few months/years, achieving nothing at all in that time, and then throwing them back out into the world with added resentment and even less stakes in society. Is it any wonder that re-offending levels are so high when such a futile punishment driven system is in place instead of one that seeks to solve problems?

 

[RustyRider]

I'm all for rehabilitation methods inside of prison, such as prison jobs were they get money to buy little things on the inside, which does actually help them once try get out...but I'm FULLY against giving them any sort of right which could potentially have an effect on our government/ police commissioners etc...

 

[Poisson]

Re: The A To Z game

It should be one of the 'perks' they can earn for good behaviour. Does anyone else think that offering the vote as an incentive for good behaviour is good?

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sam]

Some people (Tom, Meat Pie) have suggested a system where some prisoners are given the vote, based on 'progress', good behaviour or nearing the end of their sentences. Rather than either a blanket 'yes' or 'no', or concrete rules such as 'no murderers or rapists can vote' or 'people can vote if they're being released within a year'.

I can't see this happening (Tom and Meat Pie's suggestion) because it would introduce a level of discretion into the system which could be open to political manipulation. As soon as you lose concrete rules about who can and can't vote, then you end up with a situation where prison officers decide if someone is 'suitable' to vote or not based on whether they're going to vote Labour, or whatever.

I can see a 'yes', a 'no', or a 'yes with some clearly-defined exceptions' happening, but I can't see this discretionary middle-ground being viable.

 

[James]

For me it's a yes and no. It depends on the level of crime in my opinion. If it's someone who's been sentenced for 50 years for murder then no, they should not be able to vote. If it's someone who's been put in for a small robbery, then yes, they should be given the chance to vote.

Without swaying off topic I believe we are far too soft on criminals this day in age. By no means are prisons lovely places to be in, but they are given a hell of a lot of comforts which I disagree with.

Although I'm inclined to agree with Tom above, that good behaviour should equal more rights. If some inmates behave by the rules they should be offered more rights, if they continue to misbehave then rights should be removed. Prison should be a lesson to teach them that if you act good in the real world, you will open yourself out to more perks in life.

On the whole though it's quite a tricky subject to generalise. I feel it's more down to individual cases or categories of crimes rather than looking at the whole board.

 

[smudge]

... most people who break the law and end up in jail are less then reputable people.

What a ridiculous statement! You do realize you can go to jail for SPEEDING yes??

A 'good behavior' incentive is a clever idea.

Although I agree with what most of you have said, it depends on the crime, but also like Sam says, this opens a door to manipulation & 'grey areas.'

So I guess the only way round it would to have black & white list of crimes that take away your privilege to vote.

 

[Sam]

No....just no. This may cause controversy here and you may think I'm stereotyping, but lets face it, most people who break the law and end up in jail are less then reputable people.

If we start taking away the vote from people because they're "less than reputable", that's a very dangerous road to go down. What about people who watch Jeremy Kyle? Or people who buy Fastrack? Or people we don't really like the look of?

Most wouldn't vote if they weren't in there anyway.

[citation needed]

Complete conjecture.

 

[RustyRider]

... most people who break the law and end up in jail are less then reputable people.

What a ridiculous statement! You do realize you can go to jail for SPEEDING yes??

A 'good behavior' incentive is a clever idea.

Although I agree with what most of you have said, it depends on the crime, but also like Sam says, this opens a door to manipulation & 'grey areas.'

So I guess the only way round it would to have black & white list of crimes that take away your privilege to vote.

Yeah...I'm fully aware you can go to jail for speeding, although if you actually read my post, I did say most, not all!

Thing is, they already have many good behaviour programmes working within the prison, voting is one I wouldn't like to see.

I love topics like this...it shows such varied opinions and creates heated debate.

EDIT: I see what your saying Sam, but someone who buys fastrack/goes on Jeremy Kyle is much different than someone who's in prison for rape/murder/drink driving etc...

And since when has buying fastrack made someone less than reputable :/?

 

[josht]

Surly those whom done wrong should help to change the out side world world for the great good, they are serving time but that shouldn't matter it's for the country's politics

 

[smudge]

I think people have been watching too much 'Worlds Hardest Prisons' and the likes...

People in prison ( in the main ) are just normal people like me and you getting caught doing something I'm sure some of us have done ourselves.

Taking a few 'things' from your workplace, slightly overlooking a few payments as an accountant, taking drugs, speeding, drink-driving, manslaughter, downloading illegal movies, drunk & disorderly, selling a bit of weed to your mates etc etc..

Why are these not reputable people just because they have made a mistake ( which many of us have & got away with? )

I'm not condoning crime, but I find it hard to judge a person, or say they are not reputable, because of a crime they committed. (obviously apart from Pedophiles, rapists, murderers etc )