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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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Craig said:
Last year they were trying to get as many characters as possible out and about, we had the grave digger and the zombie dancers as well I think it was. They were quite literally limping to the end of the season last year rides wise, so having plenty of variations of on park street ents was probably to try and distract away from that. It's more just a case of they had some costumes available so went with the generic military theme for a few actors, don't think it's anything deeper than that.
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Have to disagree there I'm afraid. Reusing costumes is fine, but adding that much storyline to the IPF, it had to be leading towards something.
 
We shall have to agree to disagree then. I wouldn't classify a reference by scare actors as them belonging to the "IPF" almost a year ago as 'a lot of storyline'. A Hannibal type guy being dragged through the park by a 'military' force isn't exactly the most novel of tropes for a scare event.

There's been absolutely nothing about it since, and with any new attraction at least another 18 months away it's highly unlikely there'd be any sort of marketing hint over 2 and a half years in advance of it opening.

Also again, there's too much similarity to Forbidden Valley..another military force on the other side of the park to where the Phallanx are? It's Alton Towers not RAF Brize Norton.
 
My money would be on they have not even finalised the theme yet either. You would be surprised at how late into a project the theming aspect is worked on before construction starts.

Thus highly unlikely they were hinting at anything let alone the time frame too.
 
DistortAMG said:
My money would be on they have not even finalised the theme yet either. You would be surprised at how late into a project the theming aspect is worked on before construction starts.

Thus highly unlikely they were hinting at anything let alone the time frame too.
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Yup, if this attraction is going in Coaster Corner, it's a relative unknown (at least in comparison to previous additions) as to whether they'll get through permission easily or if there'll be a lot of kick back from it as the area hasn't been used for so long. I can't see too much being developed thematically until they have a better understanding of what sort of limitations are going to imposed on them once they're further through the planning process.
 
A reliable source from someone "in the know" (which seems to be used as a description of people who pass off their own predictions as pure fact and therefore must be believed) has told me that they've ordered 12 oil can related costumes from Leak Taylors for Scarefest.

That must mean that SW9 definitely has to be WD40: The Ride. It's understandable.
 
BarryZola said:
Possibly. Never been in there so I wouldn't know what they look like. I did go on Gangsta Granny for the first time ever today though and couldn't wait for it to end.
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Cheers Mr Zola, my decision to walk out of the non moving queue after twenty minutes, to go ride real rollercoasters instead, proved to be the correct decision after all.
 
As it's now looking like Project Horizon may well not be SW9 after all, I thought I'd resurrect this thread with some new food for thought.

Some may remember that back in 2019, the park performed KPI surveys asking how highly guests rated two rides on park; Nemesis and Rita. Here's a post from 2019 to jog your memory; I could have sworn there was one with an actual picture of the KPI screen, but I can't find it. Sorry about that:
If there's any Nemesis fans here - and i know there is, you might want to fill out the surverys in the tablets in the Alton Towers shops. There's two questions about "How well do you rate the following rides", the only two options there are Nemesis and Rita.
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Source: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/2019-general-discussion.4938/page-146#post-264399

I hear you asking "What does some old feedback survey from 2019 have to do with SW9, Matt?". In fairness, I can understand your confusion, but entertain me for a second, as I have a theory.

The important thing to note is that at the time, many construed this KPI question as scoping out guest opinions on two rides that could potentially have been removed to make way for SW9.

However, here's where it gets a little more relevant.

Nemesis was one of the two rides referenced in this feedback survey. As most of you know, Nemesis' future was assured in January 2022 when Alton Towers revealed their plans to retrack it in its entirety. However, this was not always the plan... John Wardley revealed in his August 2022 Q&A with Attraction Source that Alton Towers asked him "quite a few years back" about what they should replace Nemesis with. John said that he was willing to be involved with a Nemesis replacement if that was what they wanted, but he recommended that they got people's opinion on removing Nemesis first. Public opinion was overwhelmingly against the removal of Nemesis, and that was what ultimately decided the retrack:

(If the timestamp doesn't work, go to 22:20)

My theory was; could this survey from 2019 be the public survey about Nemesis' removal that John was referring to? It would certainly line up with the timescale he indicates, and it most certainly asked about public opinions on Nemesis.

At first glance, I'm conscious that that probably still sounds totally irrelevant to SW9. However, with John's response to this Q&A question and the reveal of the Nemesis retrack, I find the presence of Rita in that survey ringing intriguing alarm bells, in hindsight.

My theory is; with Rita being grouped alongside Nemesis in a survey that could quite possibly have been concerning the latter's removal, could the park be planning to remove Rita to free up a site for SW9, if and when it arrives? Nemesis and Rita are certainly an odd pairing if the topic wasn't on the removal of either ride, and given that Nemesis has now been saved for another few decades, that only leaves Rita's site as the potential SW9 area.

I'm aware that Project Horizon likely wasn't planned at this point, and COVID also hadn't happened, but even still; could this provide weight to the theory that the park has actively considered the removal of Rita? And could this also add considerable weight to the idea of Rita being removed for SW9, if and when it arrives? The theory of removing Rita for SW9 had often been dismissed as wishful thinking from enthusiasts in the past, but if we join the dots of John's Q&A response and that 2019 survey, could the Rita removal for SW9 theory be less unfounded than previously thought?

I apologise, as I'm aware that I probably come across a bit of a rambling, incoherent mess here, but I just thought I'd offer some possible food for thought on SW9 now that we have some new evidence since the topic was last discussed.
 
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I'm not sure that Nemesis "winning" a survey immediately means Nemesis is saved and Rita is removed, there could be a multitude of reasons for the question. It could simply be used as justification for the work to Nemesis, or even perhaps a consideration for work to Rita, who knows. It could even be used to establish a reasoning behind a non launch coaster or one with inversions being a preferred addition in future.

I'm also not sure how we can say it looks like Project Horizon isn't going to be classed as an SW yet either. There's nowhere near enough information out there to call it yet.

Personally I can't see Rita going anywhere for a fair few years yet. It'll only be 18 years old next year and still attracts a decent amount of guests at present.
 
Craig said:
I'm not sure that Nemesis "winning" a survey immediately means Nemesis is saved and Rita is removed, there could be a multitude of reasons for the question. It could simply be used as justification for the work to Nemesis, or even perhaps a consideration for work to Rita, who knows). It could even be used to establish a reasoning behind a non launch coaster or one with inversions being a preferred addition in future.

I'm also not sure how we can say it looks like Project Horizon isn't going to be classed as an SW yet either. There's nowhere near enough information out there to call it yet.

Personally I can't see Rita going anywhere for a fair few years yet. It'll only be 18 years old next year and still attracts a decent amount of guests at present.
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Those are all very valid points, and points I'll admit I did not consider.

What I would say is that with Project Horizon (most likely) opening in 2025, the next major after that (SW9 or SW10, depending on whether Horizon is branded an SW or not) will probably come in about 2028 or 2029. Assuming that a season needed to be allocated for construction of this hypothetical SW, the earliest Rita would be removed to build it is 2026. By this point, it would be 21 years old, 22 if removed in 2027 for a 2029 opening. I don't think 21/22 years is an overly short lifespan for a coaster, particularly one that arguably doesn't have quite the same pull and "iconicness" (for lack of a better term) as the SWs, and there's always the chance that it might get relocated. So I don't think Rita being removed in the late 2020s to facilitate the construction of an SW is an overly implausible idea myself.

I would also say that in recent years, hydraulic launch technology appears to have become a bit of a liability for parks that installed Intamin Accelerator Coasters. What with Xcelerator's issues over at Knott's and, most famously, the fracas surrounding Top Thrill Dragster that has resulted in it being SBNO since summer 2021 and will likely result in its launch being replaced with an LSM launch during the ride's "revival", hydraulic launches have had somewhat of a bumpy ride as of late. The technology is not the most reliable, the older two Intamin Accelerators would suggest that its reliability quite possibly worsens with age, and I'd wager that the technology also has very high running costs compared to Towers' other rides. Before too long, might it eventually reach a point where major work (such as a conversion to LSM like Senzafiato is rumoured to be having) is needed and Towers doesn't deem it worth their while to perform the work?
 
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Matt N said:
Those are all very valid points, and points I'll admit I did not consider.

What I would say is that with Project Horizon (most likely) opening in 2025, the next major after that (SW9 or SW10, depending on whether Horizon is branded an SW or not) will probably come in about 2028 or 2029. Assuming that a season needed to be allocated for construction of this hypothetical SW, the earliest Rita would be removed to build it is 2026. By this point, it would be 21 years old, 22 if removed in 2027 for a 2029 opening. I don't think 21/22 years is an overly short lifespan for a coaster, particularly one that arguably doesn't have quite the same pull and "iconicness" (for lack of a better term) as the SWs, and there's always the chance that it might get relocated. So I don't think Rita being removed in the late 2020s to facilitate the construction of an SW is an overly implausible idea myself.

I would also say that in recent years, hydraulic launch technology appears to have become a bit of a liability for parks that installed Intamin Accelerator Coasters. What with Xcelerator's issues over at Knott's and, most famously, the fracas surrounding Top Thrill Dragster that has resulted in it being SBNO since summer 2021 and will likely result in its launch being replaced with an LSM launch during the ride's "revival", hydraulic launches have had somewhat of a bumpy ride as of late. The technology is not the most reliable, the older two Intamin Accelerators would suggest that its reliability quite possibly worsens with age, and I'd wager that the technology also has very high running costs compared to Towers' other rides. Before too long, might it eventually reach a point where major work (such as a conversion to LSM like Senzafiato is rumoured to be having) is needed and Towers doesn't deem it worth their while to perform the work?
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I don't think we're waiting 10 years since WM for another SW, so I doubt we'd be seeing Rita being removed for SW9 (which was your original point). Yes, accelerators have had their issues, but on the whole Rita has been pretty decent and from a launch point of view it's looked after pretty well by the park. I doubt the park could deal with a conversion to LSM, the power situation at the park couldn't cope with it without very, very significant investment - especially with Project Horizon. So overall they'll probably stick to hydraulic and looking after what they have.

As for SW10, I guess we could see Rita's removal for that but I still have my doubts on that front. Personally I'd be more concerned for the rather useless elephant in the room (well, park) next to it that closes at the slightest sniff of moisture in the air or when us northerners consider potentially chucking another layer over our t-shirts...
 
I wouldn't look into that much, Rita isn't going anywhere so far, perhaps the only coaster graphic they had in the marketing department was that of B&M track? Had it been Intamin track no one would have thought anything of it. :p
 
Escape whilst you can, the ride is meant to be themed around escaping out of dark forest in some drag race car right? so probably just trying to reinforce the theme of the ride which is already pretty lacking in Rita's department.
 
late-night-seth-seth-meyers.gif



Alton's marketing team ...
 
Craig said:
I don't think we're waiting 10 years since WM for another SW, so I doubt we'd be seeing Rita being removed for SW9 (which was your original point). Yes, accelerators have had their issues, but on the whole Rita has been pretty decent and from a launch point of view it's looked after pretty well by the park. I doubt the park could deal with a conversion to LSM, the power situation at the park couldn't cope with it without very, very significant investment - especially with Project Horizon. So overall they'll probably stick to hydraulic and looking after what they have.

As for SW10, I guess we could see Rita's removal for that but I still have my doubts on that front. Personally I'd be more concerned for the rather useless elephant in the room (well, park) next to it that closes at the slightest sniff of moisture in the air or when us northerners consider potentially chucking another layer over our t-shirts...
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If it weren’t for the trick track on Thirteen being so popular still, if be saying both of them could be up for removal.

It’s clear Thirteen hasn’t agreed well at all, and RITA has never fitted in.
 
Poisson said:
Not Vekoma track? Towers have moved on (slightly)
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The track at the top does actually look quite like new style Vekoma so maybe not moved on too much :tearsofjoy:

"Escape whilst you can" does actually suggest you may only have a limited time to do so on Rita. And if they ever do install a cross valley coaster Rita may need to make way for it. Also, I would imagine Intamin will discontinue cable launched coasters in the near future in favour of LSM launches, if they haven't done so already, and so replacement parts may be harder and harder to come by. So they may be faced with a choice of either replace the launch system with an LSM launch, or remove the ride completely and put something new in it's place. If it does come to that choice I think they would go with the latter.
 
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