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TBC: SW9 Speculation
- Thread starter Matt N
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Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
If they did this, would it negate the need for them to build a major new dark ride in lieu of SW9, in your view? That would take their dark ride count to 4 (Dungeons returning to family boat ride adds 1), which I’d personally consider fairly decent.
I do think that we could see the Dungeons turned back into a family dark ride within the next few years; it was said by many at the time of it opening to be a temporary placeholder as opposed to Merlin’s long-term plan for the building.
Matt.GC
TS Member
I do, yes. 4 sounds pretty decent to me. With Woodcutters, Burger Kitchen, Raj's shop, a 4d Cinema, 3 dark rides, the existing flats and maybe even an indoor adventure playground the whole area around Walliams World and Fountain Square would be an excellent hub for year round operations.
I’m not sure that it was close to brilliant.
In your view, what were the close misses that would have made it brilliant had they been gotten right? All I see is a poorly implemented VR system and a bizarre, difficult to follow storyline. The theming elements are excellent in isolation but don’t really follow a holistic experience and they don’t seem to hit the notes of the illusion/mind trick theme which presumably they were going for with the suspended train and you appearing in another room etc. There were elements which were excellent, the best of which they for some reason got rid of which was the bit where you thought a train was going to run you over, but ultimately it was confused and far too heavily reliant on the VR when the bits which were/are world class in the train near miss and the fake gift shop scene don’t involve virtual reality. I do think that the idea of reinventing a ghost train using modern technology (not VR or at least only a smattering of it) and using an excellent IP in Derren Brown was a great idea and could have been unbelievable but that’s as far as it got for me.
I’d actually argue that Sub-Terra was closer to being brilliant, all that really needed was a bit more thought into the dark ride element, probably a bit more suspense in the egg room before the drop and maybe some visuals of the monster coming for you rather than it all just being a dark room (and removal of the weird scaremaze at the end).
I know I’d be happy if they just re-did Sub-Terra and put a lot more thought into it in lieu of creating a brand new dark ride, if only there was a famous ride which closed a while back in Florida with an exact blueprint for how to do this kind of thing well….
TheAverageNerd
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
Pretty sure the ride system was a joint effort between Intamin, a railway company and possibly someone else?
Regardless, I doubt we’ll ever see something like it built by Merlin again. It cost a fortune and has been a bit of a nightmare. The ride system itself is incredible though, it’s a shame that the main thing people take away from the ride is the poor VR.
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Thameslink Rail
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
Derren Brown was between Intamin, Severn Lamb (who have built many railways for tourist attractions), Simworks, Merlin Magic Making, Figment Productions (who created the VR films) and of course Derren Brown (who was generally dissatisfied with the end result iirc).
pluk
TS Member
In what way is the ride system incredible? It seems to amount to a fairly standard motion simulator. That the ride vehicle moves from one end of a building to another hardly seems remarkable.
jon81uk
TS Member
Replying in a different thread as your question isn't about 2022.
Its not impossible but i think 2025 might be more realistic for the next major (SW9) coaster at AT.
As discussed at length there are many many things Alton Towers needs before a new headline coaster.
(four flat rides, indoor coaster, upgrades to existing rides like Duel, Congo Rapids etc, replacent of the boat ride which is currently the Dungeon, more family attractions).
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Wouldn't that be nice but let's be honest they won't do all of that will they?
I'd wager all we will see are enhancements to Cbeebies and David Walliams in the next few years and then we'll get the infamous Nemmy re-track and then possibly sw9.
Four flat rides isn't happening. Be lucky if they build one permanent thrill flat ride. Indoor coaster is again something I'd like to see but can't see it happening.
As for Duel and Rapids.....I think we will see some TLC given to them but it won't be enough and we will all continue to moan about it.
jon81uk
TS Member
Oh definitly, there is a huge difference between what the park needs and what it gets, the new coaster at Thorpe shows elements of that too.
But Retrosquad showed the park needs the flat rides, just a shame we won't get them.
Wickerman has shown how well a less-thrilling coaster can work and an indoor one would perfectly add to the range of rides for the in-between CBeebies and Nemesis crowd.
I think many people would agree a thrill coaster should be low-down on the priority list, its just Alton Towers that probably won't get go-ahead for anything other than an all-out headliner.
I do think we have the likelyhood that Alton Towers will go to Merlin with retro-squad as evidence and probably get the go ahead for one of two flat rides to build up capacity. I don't think we'll say any past that and I think they'll probably build something a little more eye-catching like with submission. I think in terms of SW9 I think we could be waiting another 5 years or so. I think we will see some work to Cbeebies and Walliams world as well as a few new flats and then a possible nemesis retrack. I actually think for SW9 we could be looking at around 2026 or though it could possibly be earlier. Wouldn't surprise me if it's 2025.
As per my post in the Oblivion Discussion thread, I struggled to get to sleep last night and my mind began to wonder. A lot. And I conceived a plan for SW9 and a new area:
“Roboworld: We Aim To Please”
I know robo areas have already been considered at AT but hear me out.
In a post apocalyptic world, robots and humans exist in harmony and in an utopian environment. Robots aim to please the human race by providing fun and frivolity in the means of family flats and a thrill flat for good measure. But, a robot that was programmed to please has turned dark and runs uncontrollably. It is hell bent; a mad and unstoppable crazy force that the human race is instructed to help bring down. A huge enclosure has been dropped on this unstoppable machine and humans are invited to grab on and bring the machine under control.
That’s the story. Ultimately, it would be a multi launch coaster with 75% of the track indoors, within a new area on the Galactica car park.
Worlds first? I’m not sure what that would be. But I’m sure it would be good? Would be interested to know your thoughts.
“Roboworld: We Aim To Please”
I know robo areas have already been considered at AT but hear me out.
In a post apocalyptic world, robots and humans exist in harmony and in an utopian environment. Robots aim to please the human race by providing fun and frivolity in the means of family flats and a thrill flat for good measure. But, a robot that was programmed to please has turned dark and runs uncontrollably. It is hell bent; a mad and unstoppable crazy force that the human race is instructed to help bring down. A huge enclosure has been dropped on this unstoppable machine and humans are invited to grab on and bring the machine under control.
That’s the story. Ultimately, it would be a multi launch coaster with 75% of the track indoors, within a new area on the Galactica car park.
Worlds first? I’m not sure what that would be. But I’m sure it would be good? Would be interested to know your thoughts.
Steve74
TS Member
Only pushed back in our minds because we didn't know this was going to happen. SW9 will be well and truly on Towers' radar and no doubt timescales have already been decided taking into account Nemesis's retrack
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
For all we know, Nemesis' retrack may not end up being costly enough to consitute a major investment; I know the original Nemesis cost £10m in 1994 (which is probably more like £20m now), but that budget also included costs that won't be incurred by the retrack, some of which were rather substantial; for instance, the obscene groundwork cost of digging the pit swallowed up a fair amount of Nemesis' original budget, which won't be happening this time. They also won't be installing theming, and there won't be quite as much track installed this time round. The footers will also mostly be in already, so there's no design and groundwork costs there. For numerous reasons, I think the retrack will cost a fair amount less than building Nemesis from scratch did when taking inflation into account (although it certainly won't be cheap for sure).
However, if it does swallow up the park's next major investment slot, with SW9 being delayed to the late 2020s, I honestly think we're at a point where it wouldn't really matter. Towers has a very strong coaster collection at this stage, in my opinion, with no gaping holes in it. And unlike somewhere like Thorpe prior to the announcement of Exodus (a hyper just seemed to fit so well there in my mind!), there are no coasters that instantaneously leap out to me as something that Towers might build; sure, I'd love for them to build something like an Intamin Blitz, and I certainly wouldn't complain if a new coaster opened tomorrow, but I don't see any thrill coaster type that just fits as Towers' next major investment in my mind. And given that my mind usually leaps into coaster building mode at every opportunity, that speaks volumes about how few holes there are in Towers' coaster lineup; it feels quite "complete" for the time being, in my opinion.
With that in mind, I certainly think we're at a point where the park could tick over for a good few years without a new coaster.
However, if it does swallow up the park's next major investment slot, with SW9 being delayed to the late 2020s, I honestly think we're at a point where it wouldn't really matter. Towers has a very strong coaster collection at this stage, in my opinion, with no gaping holes in it. And unlike somewhere like Thorpe prior to the announcement of Exodus (a hyper just seemed to fit so well there in my mind!), there are no coasters that instantaneously leap out to me as something that Towers might build; sure, I'd love for them to build something like an Intamin Blitz, and I certainly wouldn't complain if a new coaster opened tomorrow, but I don't see any thrill coaster type that just fits as Towers' next major investment in my mind. And given that my mind usually leaps into coaster building mode at every opportunity, that speaks volumes about how few holes there are in Towers' coaster lineup; it feels quite "complete" for the time being, in my opinion.
With that in mind, I certainly think we're at a point where the park could tick over for a good few years without a new coaster.
jon81uk
TS Member
Agree.
I've said before that there are at least six other attractions the park needs before another outdoor coaster.
Permanent replacements for Retrosquad, a new theatre or 4D show, an overhaul of Duel and others (like additional indoor attractions) should all be higher priority than a coaster.
Agreed 100%. The park needs to make several low to medium investments before they even consider SW9. My 5 year wish list is:
Duel refurb, Towers Street Restaurant reopening, 3 x permanent flats in the obvious locations, Dungeons turned back into a family dark ride, a large outdoor covered seating area in fountain square, 4D cinema or similar in TWoDW and a monorail refurb.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
For God's sake Merlin, you know everyone isn't a fan of Duel and would rather have The Haunted House Back, or something similar at the least. In fact, I could say this for just about every other indoor attraction at the Park.
It's like talking to a brick wall. They know what you're talking about but they won't do a thing about it. They really need to take more priority on their non Secret Weapon Projects.
It's like talking to a brick wall. They know what you're talking about but they won't do a thing about it. They really need to take more priority on their non Secret Weapon Projects.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
If talking about the general park visiting populace, is this necessarily true?
From what I can gather, Duel is still quite well liked due to the shooting element, and I do think that for some, going back to the HH would remove that appealing element from it.
And in terms of the other indoor attractions on park; Gangsta Granny went down a treat in 2021 as far as I can tell, so I’m not sure that people riding that were lamenting the loss of HH. And because of GG, I’m also not sure it’s fair to say that Merlin doesn’t care about indoor attractions; whatever you think of GG, it is ultimately an additional family dark ride in Alton Towers’ lineup like many were asking for.
If you’ve heard otherwise, however, I will happily stand corrected!
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