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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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Matt N said:
If talking about the general park visiting populace, is this necessarily true?

From what I can gather, Duel is still quite well liked due to the shooting element, and I do think that for some, going back to the HH would remove that appealing element from it.

And in terms of the other indoor attractions on park; Gangsta Granny went down a treat in 2021 as far as I can tell, so I’m not sure that people riding that were lamenting the loss of HH. And because of GG, I’m also not sure it’s fair to say that Merlin doesn’t care about indoor attractions; whatever you think of GG, it is ultimately an additional family dark ride in Alton Towers’ lineup like many were asking for.

If you’ve heard otherwise, however, I will happily stand corrected!
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As a whole, I think it's just a mixed bag, either you love what Merlins doing, or you hate it.
Well, you can't satisfy everyone :/

Gangsta Granny is a decent dark ride by all means, but I think it was the adverts and social media teasers is what made many people feel disappointed. If it was promoted Less, I think it would've would've a lot less backlash and seen a bit more positively from many enthusiasts and a decent amount of the GP.

I think that since the addition of GG, it's time for Duel to retire once and for all and let it's former self finally return, as Gangsta Granny is the ride to have fun on and have a laugh on for all ages. Don't get me wrong, i know many people that still really enjoy the shooting element on Duel, but when I persuaded a couple of mates of mine to put the guns down and just enjoy it as a ghost train, they said themselves that they were pleasantly surprised by how much they enjoyed it without the blasters.

Since GG opened, it won't be long for Duel to lose its popularity as GG takes the crown as the main family dark ride there, so maybe promoting The HH as a new ride could bring in new guests.

But hey, it's just my opinion. Also, I think we're heading off track on the forum now.
 
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There’s been quite a bit of talk in another thread about SW9 being located in FV but I really can’t see it.
Let’s say they open 1 or max 2 temporary/permanent flats or a dark ride there to offset Nemesis being closed in 2023. Maybe one of those is Nemesis Sub Terra but with a rethought rider experience and no live actors to make it easier to operate. Then, the huge construction project begins in 2023 for Nemesis which reopens in 2024. Would the park realistically then close most of FV for a year or two after Nemesis reopens to build SW9? Surely it just wouldn’t make financial sense to spend millions on Nemesis only for the area to be closed off a year or two later for the construction of SW9, which would take at least another year to complete. FV has 2 coasters plus 3 excellent sites for flat rides.

The area of the park that needs immediate attention is The Dark Forest. Two temperamental coasters, no supporting rides, nowhere to sit and theming that makes the place look abandoned. The whole “dark forest” brand could be amazing but in its current state, the area looks like it’s rotting away.
 
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Forbidden Valley would likely stay open if SW9 is going there. Towers would not close Nemesis/Galactica/Rollercoaster Restaurant for an entire season. Plus guests can see construction of a brand new ride and rush home to book their future visit.
 
On the topic of Forbidden Valley being home to the next SW; if it were to be, how would people feel about a similar ride to Ice Breaker at SeaWorld Orlando in the spare space within the area (I'm talking the strip of land between Sub-Terra and Ripsaw's former site, encompassing Blade, the Ripsaw site, the food outlets, the arcade and possibly the Nemesis theming feature)? Here's a POV of Ice Breaker, if you're wondering what I'm on about:

In terms of whether it would fit; Ice Breaker is around 200m long, which would fit if you went from the very bottom end of the Ripsaw site to the very top end of Forbidden Valley. It is admittedly 65m wide, which would be too wide for that plot of land unless you went into the valley, but it's worth noting that Ice Breaker s-bends out into a second parallel straight, which Towers' hypothetical ride wouldn't necessarily have to. If they kept it as one straight, I think it could fit. I also don't reckon Towers' would be quite as long in footprint as Ice Breaker, as Ice Breaker is 93ft tall and Towers wouldn't be able to build that high.

However, I do think an Ice Breaker-style ride would work well for numerous reasons:
  • It's another 1.2m coaster for the lineup, which is good for accessibility for a slightly wider demographic. Ice Breaker is commonly touted as a step-up thrill coaster, and having another of those would be nice at Towers, particularly in FV where there's nothing for people under 1.4m coaster-wise.
  • It would provide an additional launch coaster for the park, and it would also have the USP of being "the UK's first swing launch coaster" (as of the time of writing).
  • Based on the cheering and whooping sounds in the video, I think it would comfortably fill what many feel to be an airtime void within Towers' coaster lineup!
What do you guys think?
 
Trooper Looper said:
It could potentially work, but i think if it wants any creative Inversions, it'll have to go above the treeline, which the locals will obviously rant about.
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They literally have the roller coaster with the most inversions on the planet; none of which pass above the treeline. I think they'll be fine with building a new coaster with creative types of inversions.

:)
 
Trooper Looper said:
It could potentially work, but i think if it wants any creative Inversions, it'll have to go above the treeline, which the locals will obviously rant about.
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Ice Breaker doesn't have any, and I don't think a hypothetical one for Towers would need to, either; the lack of inversions, lack of overly big drops and low height requirement could make it a nice stepping stone, and I think something similar would really deliver on the airtime front!

And also, Towers hardly lacks inversions as a park; their total inversion count now sits at 20, which is one of the highest in the world!
 
Personally, I hope that if SW9 is a coaster, it focuses on strong floater and ejector air over inversions. I’d honestly love another woodie that is thrill oriented, and I think a woodie would actually fit really well in forbidden valley. It could easily be themed to look like it has been constructed by survivors of the nemesis creature; either as a sort of evacuation vehicle (overdone in my opinion), or as a weapon to combat the creature.

Is it wishful thinking to hope for another woodie anytime soon? Perhaps. Do I think it’s possible? Yes, actually. Given the success of wicker man, I think another woodie at the opposite end of the park would do very well, and with a support flat or two could really help to breathe new life into forbidden valley, especially once the nemesis re-track is completed.

To be perhaps a little controversial, I actually think a woodie like this would be a suitable replacement for Galactica, which I absolutely think will be the first SW to leave the park. It could extend onto the car park and could perhaps serve as an opportunity to add a real second entrance to the park in the forbidden valley section? My ideas are almost certainly spiralling now…


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After the Nemesis retrack, I did have a thought; after Nemesis’ retrack, will the next 2 major investments be “Oblivion retrack” and “Galactica retrack” as opposed to anything brand new, as those 2 rides will be hitting the 28 years old that Nemesis is now before we know it?

Or is Nemesis’ retrack more of a special case, and not something we should expect to see repeated in the future?
 
Matt N said:
After the Nemesis retrack, I did have a thought; after Nemesis’ retrack, will the next 2 major investments be “Oblivion retrack” and “Galactica retrack” as opposed to anything brand new, as those 2 rides will be hitting the 28 years old that Nemesis is now before we know it?

Or is Nemesis’ retrack more of a special case, and not something we should expect to see repeated in the future?
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I don’t think Galactica or Oblivion need maintenance as intense as a full re-track, but a re-fresh in terms of theming and general presentation would be great to see.
 
Seeing pictures of the newly repainted Kraken at Seaworld just reminds me how cheap Merlin were with the Air/Galactica rethemeing. The track should've been repainted to that lovely shade of blue.
 
Galactica won't be fully re-tracked. They will just get rid when the time comes.

Blivy will get some TLC though at some point I'm sure. It's not like there is much track that needs changing either. The station, lift hill and brake run wont need replacing at all as there's very little stress put on those parts of the ride.

I think Sw9 will surely not be too far away. Still think Nemmy reopening in 2024 and SW9 in 2025 is likely.
 
I still can’t make up my mind where SW9 would go. Apart from Nemesis and Oblivion, all other SWs have been placed on the site of former major rides, but apart from some ageing flats, I can’t see what else could be on the removal list. I assume Spinball is but a SW on that site is never going to happen.
I can’t see SW9 going into FV if the park want it looking sharp for Nemesis’ grand reopening - “come and see Nemesis reborn, oh but please mind the massive construction site which is blocking the view”….and I think development on on the car park behind Galactica is several years away yet. Which only really leaves Dark Forest and X Sector. If Oblivion’s queue was condensed, could we see something fitting in there if Enterprise was removed? I’ve made my views quite clear on what I think of The Dark Forest but I just don’t think there’s enough space. Could we see SW9 being built on a green site?
 
Matt N said:
Ice Breaker doesn't have any, and I don't think a hypothetical one for Towers would need to, either; the lack of inversions, lack of overly big drops and low height requirement could make it a nice stepping stone, and I think something similar would really deliver on the airtime front!

And also, Towers hardly lacks inversions as a park; their total inversion count now sits at 20, which is one of the highest in the world!
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14 of them all happen to be on the one ride you know ;)
 
Matt N said:
After the Nemesis retrack, I did have a thought; after Nemesis’ retrack, will the next 2 major investments be “Oblivion retrack” and “Galactica retrack” as opposed to anything brand new, as those 2 rides will be hitting the 28 years old that Nemesis is now before we know it?

Or is Nemesis’ retrack more of a special case, and not something we should expect to see repeated in the future?
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I think that's an interesting point actually. But then I think that's way down the line. For a start, Oblivion is 4 years newer, Galactica is 8 years. I'm no engineer, but I don't think either suffer the same stresses as Nemesis in terms of design and where they are built so I think you can add another few years in there. If I was a betting man, I'd say Oblivion would probably get a piecemeal as and when retrack of far smaller scale than Nemesis and it wouldn't be for a fair few years yet. When the time comes for Galactica, say 10+ years time I think they'd just get shot of it.

In terms of a new coaster location, I don't think the car park is a goer as they'd need to build more permanent parking on the fields and I don't think they'll bother. I wouldn't like it anywhere else in FV as I quite like the way it's laid out. I just think FV needs a real decent flat or 2 and perhaps a dark ride. It's too soon for Rita to kick the bucket, but something needs to be done with Dark Forest. Demolish the food outlets and the old arcade and you could fit something there if they went right to the bottom of the area as well. Wouldn't be big though. Similar situation in X Sector, some room right down the bottom if you removed Enterprise. Quite a bit of room actually with room behind Oblivion for queue line, break runs, maintenance etc. But would that be too close to the outside of the park in terms of noise?

I suppose it depends on what they want to build.
 
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