TBC: SW9 Speculation

[BigT]

It only had temporary planning consent anyway. The approaching expiration of that was one of the reasons it's site was chosen for Nemesis.

Nemesis didn’t replace it, they operated together for a year or two, ThunderLooper station was where blade is now and it ran though where Air is now, Air replaced The Beast and ThunderLooper.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Even when Nemesis opened, she and Thunder Looper were pretty much the two best rides on the park and despite being older, TL was a worthy rival to Nemesis.

I think the other factor for the ride's closure was that with all the other factors in place, it was the opening of the hotel and the noise it had that would cause guests to complain about. Poor great beast of a ride was just doomed from the start.

Do wish I got to ride it and you'll find a few number of enthusiasts that'll tell you that TL will always be better than Rita and honestly I can see why.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Do wish I got to ride it and you'll find a few number of enthusiasts that'll tell you that TL will always be better than Rita and honestly I can see why.

It still operates to this day in Hop Hari theme park, located in Brazil, by the Name of Superman if I recall.
But hey, it's better off in Brazil than being turned into spoons and cutlery.

 

[Ash]

Hmm...everyone's talking about FV but I wonder if maybe there might be something different. I'm going to throw my hat into the ring with a rank outsider choice...indoor coaster for the former coaster corner area of the park.

Yeah I've said that before if there is any chance of a coaster going there then it would have to be enclosed to avoid getting the locals angry over noise levels, though the more I think about it, the more that it might not seem so far fetch.

We all now that TWODW was hinted of having a second phase that if not for the pandemic would've seen more movement there by now. Maybe having SW9 squeezed into that area of the park could be a rank outside choice though even if that were the case, question is one gimmick they'd go for with this being Merlin?

How about first UK coaster with an onboard sound system for the ride's soundtrack? Not the most original idea but it has the tedious gimmick value that I'm surprised Merlin having looked into yet to even add to any current ride, more success than certain VR gimmicks. That is though if there already is a ride in this country that had onboard sound system in operation, need to improve my knowledge on most rides in this country.

Always wondered why the valley between DF and FV could be made more accessible or perhaps the placement of a new themed area, actually when was the last expansion to the park built? Thunder Valley in 1990 or KC and GW in 1992?

The park is really lacking an indoor coaster, it’s the final piece of the jigsaw. Coaster corner is a great shout. A two birds one stone could be moving Spinball Whizzer to coaster corner and putting in a partial building. Open the area up to the flag tower (akin to how ratatouille ended up at Epcot)

This could then allow opening up to a possible second entrance at the old Alton Station entrance


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[rob666]

Height, visibility issues and noise means coaster corner won't happen again.
It was closed because of planning issues overall.

 

[BigT]

The best place for an indoor coaster is where Duel is, large existing building and room around it to expand.

 

[jon81uk]

Height, visibility issues and noise means coaster corner won't happen again.
It was closed because of planning issues overall.

Being indoors would solve the noise issue. I think they might be able to get away with a building but yes it depends how tall and intrusive the exterior looks. If something the size of the black hole went on that sight would it really be seen from outside the park.

The best place for an indoor coaster is where Duel is, large existing building and room around it to expand.

They need to increase the number of attractions. If Duel is replaced it should remain a dark ride and an indoor coaster added elsewhere. Or maybe Duel becomes indoor coaster and a dark ride goes elsewhere to deal with the height issue.
Removing a standard dark ride that is suitable for most ages and replacing with a coaster doesn’t make sense.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Height, visibility issues and noise means coaster corner won't happen again.
It was closed because of planning issues overall.

Even if the coaster was in a enclosed building to prevent noise? Yes, an open coaster in that area will never happen again but enclosed and built behind the tree line, once again a big hole in the ground, seems like the only plausible way we'll get any coaster in that area. Honestly a coaster would really make that area more vibrant as even during the golden years, it was often a dead area which did show why TT eventually got less and less queues.

The park is really lacking an indoor coaster, it’s the final piece of the jigsaw. Coaster corner is a great shout. A two birds one stone could be moving Spinball Whizzer to coaster corner and putting in a partial building. Open the area up to the flag tower (akin to how ratatouille ended up at Epcot)

This could then allow opening up to a possible second entrance at the old Alton Station entrance


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I agree about a ride in that area as well as well as opening up a second entrance on the sight, however for Spinball, I can't see it surviving. It's no secret that Towers/Merlin have it down as the most likely coaster to leave next not to mention its low throughput and blight on the landscape all adds up to it eventually closing.

Let's be honest, if Spinball's replacement was replacement was Mack Spinner then I don't think any of us would complain though I would be shocked if Spinball did get a reprive in a different area in the park.

Also regarding where to build SW9, has anyone thought about the area of land between GW and KC? Personally I would have built Wicker Man in that area with it being just about the same size, themed to something African related to fit in KC and heavens know what you'd do with the Flume site then. Speaking of which, am I the only one who feels KC is long overdue for a new attraction in the area having had no new editions since it actually opened? Maybe a SW9 location?

 

[jon81uk]

Also regarding where to build SW9, has anyone thought about the area of land between GW and KC?

Isn’t most of that land taken up with the mine train? Or do you mean the car park side?

 

[QTXAdsy]

Isn’t most of that land taken up with the mine train? Or do you mean the car park side?

Car park side I mean, just an open piece of land.

 

[Trooper Looper]

I'm sure that area is supposed to be underdeveloped for both areas to make them distinct and not being mistaken as the same area. Gloomy Woods wouldn't be so Gloomy and isolating if a huge Roller Coaster was around the corner from it, and Katanga Canyon wouldn't be so jungle like if the nest SW with completely separate themeing would be built between both areas. It'd be a mess of an area.

 

[rob666]

I think the area "zones" don't mean much to your average theme park punter.
Dark forest?
Nope, just where two coasters are.
Katanga what?
Rapids and mine train.
As many have said, Alton has enough quality coasters, what it needs is the rest of the whole park bringing back to a decent standard. There might not be another new SW for a few years.
Sort out the dodgy paint, leaky gutters, empty spaces for flats and dodgy F&B first.

 

[QTXAdsy]

I think the area "zones" don't mean much to your average theme park punter.
Dark forest?
Nope, just where two coasters are.
Katanga what?
Rapids and mine train.
As many have said, Alton has enough quality coasters, what it needs is the rest of the whole park bringing back to a decent standard. There might not be another new SW for a few years.
Sort out the dodgy paint, leaky gutters, empty spaces for flats and dodgy F&B first.

TBH, some of the areas have rides that make no sense in the theming sense such as Galatica's space theme in a apocalyptic wasteland of FV, Rita just not fitting into Dark Forrest or Ug Land at all and even recently with Wicker Man's pagan theming being somewhat out of place with the pirate themed Mutiny Bay, then again I'm unsure if they have done changes since then to try and fit it in.

Actually regarding that section of land beside KC I was mentioning, the only sort of coaster that could fit in there without sticking out like a sort thumb might be a Mack style water coaster which in itself would be unquie to the UK market and depending what size they go for wouldn't have to be a monster sized ride. Besides, Towers do need another water ride following the loss of the Flume.

But yeah, Towers does need to bring the park up to full standard before the next SW is truly a thing.

 

[Steve74]

TBH, some of the areas have rides that make no sense in the theming sense such as Galatica's space theme in a apocalyptic wasteland of FV, Rita just not fitting into Dark Forrest or Ug Land at all and even recently with Wicker Man's pagan theming being somewhat out of place with the pirate themed Mutiny Bay, then again I'm unsure if they have done changes since then to try and fit it in.

I think Rita fits in better in Dark Forest than Ugland. With Rita now, you're "escaping the dark forest" by riding it. In Ug Land, it was just themed to drag racing (correct me if I'm wrong there, I can't remember it much pre Dark Forest).

In fairness, I don't think the log flume was classed as Mutiny Bay? Being a water ride it was closer to MB's theme than Wicker man is, but not with the bright bathtubs it had in later years! There is an argument to have had Wicker Man themed to Mutiny Bay but personally, I think it's great as it is standalone and it's location helps that to - I see Mutiny Bay's boundary as the path leading from Battle Galleons, past the Welcome Inn and up to the Katanga Canyon sign. Based on that, if WM should be in any area, it should be Katanga Canyon.

 

[Squiggs]

I think the area "zones" don't mean much to your average theme park punter.

Are you sure you mean theme park punter there? Or do you mean coaster enthusiast?

These days, you have to bear in mind that the average theme park enthusiast is way more likely to be heading abroad to parks that invest in truly immersive experiences. We are definitely outside the golden age of the UK's theme park industry, and there is a big hole in the UK's landscape right now for a truly world-class theme park.

The demand isn't missing for a theme park with well themed areas, it is very much that Merlin is seemingly incapable of delivering such a product.

 

[Matt N]

I’m not sure Towers is really a park that focuses on strongly themed areas anymore (if they ever did) as much as they do immersing guests into individual ride experiences, and I think that’s fine, personally.

They do have quite a few ride experiences now that aren’t necessary homologous with the themed area around them, and I don’t think it significantly detracts from the park. Certainly in cases like Wicker Man within Mutiny Bay, I don’t really think it detracts at all; even though Wicker Man doesn’t really fit within Mutiny Bay in terms of its base theme, I think it’s a really well themed ride in its own right, and doesn’t clash too badly with the area around it. Yes, they could have rethemed Mutiny Bay or made Wicker Man pirate-themed, but I don’t think it would have hugely affected people’s perception of the ride as a whole; Wicker Man seems to have been very well received, and its integration into Mutiny Bay has never seemed to be a strong complaint.

In fact, I’d almost say that I’m not sure if Towers was ever a park that focused strongly on homologous themed areas. Even looking back to the 90s, I would describe Towers as a park that had themed rides within areas as opposed to a park that had themed areas with rides within them (in the style of, say, Islands of Adventure or Europa Park), and I’d say that’s grown even more the case with time.

Even though Towers’ themed areas were perhaps more strongly emphasised back then than they are now, I’m not sure they ever had the strong identities that the rides did. People didn’t think of Gloomy Wood, they thought of the Haunted House. People didn’t think of Katanga Canyon, they thought of the Runaway Mine Train. People didn’t think of Forbidden Valley, they thought of Nemesis.

I also say this because Towers’ themed areas have often had a few slight “holes” or “rough edges”, even back in the 90s when the areas probably had the most onus placed upon them. They were very rarely totally consistent or enveloping. For instance:

• In Forbidden Valley’s early years, you had unthemed rides like Beast and Thunder Looper randomly existing within it with no strong identity or link to the FV story.
• In X-Sector’s early years, you had the Black Hole, which beyond the dark blue tent and X-Sector styled entrance was more of a generic space themed/steampunk styled ride. I wouldn’t call that overly fitting within X-Sector’s story.
• Land of Make Believe/Cred Street/whatever the land behind the Towers Ruins was called at any particular point has often been somewhat of a mish-mash of styles, with no real overarching theme. The onus was definitely more on individual rides in this area than the area itself, from what I can gather.
• Merrie England had the log flume and the 3D cinema randomly existing within it, which weren’t overly medieval themed from what I can gather.
• Ug Land had Corkscrew, which had little theming beyond the entrance sign and didn’t have any strong link into the story, from what I can tell.
• There are other examples I could cite, but I’ll leave it there.

I’ll digress that I was never there, but I’m basing this off of pictures and videos I’ve seen, as well as what I know about the 90s park.

TL;DR: So in summary, I do see where @rob666 is coming from; I’m not sure themed areas are really on guests’ minds at Towers, and I’m not sure they ever really were to any strong extent.

 

[Squiggs]

I think the bit that is missing from your argument is that they didn't need to create any of those themed lands. The very fact they chose to go down that route, and to the extent they did, shows the commitment the park once had to themed areas.

I'll use Ug Land as an example, but the same logic applies to several of the areas from that time period. Yes, Corkscrew received reasonably light theming as part of Ug Land, but arguably it received a surprisingly large amount of theming for an existing compact coaster that was not designed to receive theming. Yes, the theming focused around the entrance, station and trains, but even the course received some theming elements where possible, like the rib cage down the brake run.

But it has to be remembered that Ug Land did not need to happen at all. They didn't add any new rides as part of the change, and Festival Park was an extremely popular area already (there area people to this day who prefer the theme of Festival Park over Ug Land). So to create Ug Land as a themed area was an active choice on the part of Tussauds, as was the decision to theme literally everything - rides, sideshows, shops, food outlets, the lot - they even went so far as to carve theming into random rocks around the area. If that's not a commitment to themed areas, I don't know what is.

And that is the case all the way through that period - probably right up to says Mutiny Bay and Cloud Cuckoo Land tbh. There are exceptions, of course, but often those exceptions are caused by older rides that are on their way out of the park (eg. Forbidden Valley in 1994) or external pressures (e.g. all the financial nonsense that occurred at the end of the DIC years).

 

[QTXAdsy]

These days, you have to bear in mind that the average theme park enthusiast is way more likely to be heading abroad to parks that invest in truly immersive experiences.

Pretty much this. I'm afraid to say that efforts abroad have greatly changed our perspective to be, dare I say, be a little bit more entitled though TBH, when you see the efforts done at Towers, they do look rather puny.

Don't get me wrong, Merlin could on paper really go for making well themed areas, we've seen this with rides like Wicker Man, they just need a right kick up the backside for it.

We all like to point the finger at Merlin for not trying hard but think about the actually folk who've worked at Towers for many years and are very much like us want to really make the most of each area. Trust me if Merlin had give those folk at Towers a blank cheque to do whatever they want to making immersed themed areas then they would've done it by now.

 

[Matt.GC]

Corkscrew looked like a dinosaur skeleton so fit in well with the area. Air didn't fit in FV but some effort was made to blend it, Galactica with it's super generic space theme is just jarring. WM doesn't fit Mutiny Bay theme wise but at least doesn't look out of place with all the wood. The Smiler kind of mergers in with X Sectors theme, sort of. Rita has nothing to do with Ug Land or a Dark Forest.

 

[JAperson]

I'm still surprised that when they built thirteen and were coming up with the theme they didn't think about a theme that would better suite Rita. I'm sure that would've been possible.