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The 2017 General Election

If Corbyn doesn't get in power, the Tories will continue to destroy the NHS as they have been doing until there's nothing left.

And once it's gone, it's gone.
 
The NHS has been given financial increases in real terms every year, without fail, over the last fifty years.
New developments in clinical care and medicines, combined with new surgical techniques, and the massive problems created by our rapidly ageing population, and increased expectations from patients over the years, mean that health care provision by the state is coming under greater and greater pressure each year.
I was taught that as part of my degree studies THREE DECADES ago.
Things haven't changed much, but to imagine that Corbyn can sweep in and turn it all around is beyond optimistic, beyond realistic, simply pie in the sky dreaming.
 
I'd rather have someone in power that will at least attempt to save it rather than privatise everything. I'd rather be hopeful and take the chance that Corbyn can change things tbh
 
Corbyn is the first Labour leader I haven't wanted to brutally kill slowly infront of his family. He is wasted in that party. As much as it pains me to say it, I may actually vote red for the first time in my life.
 
I will sum up the general election parties now... A party who care most about themselves and the rich. An antisemitic party which allows racism, with a leader who is against all nuclear weapons. A nationalistic party who only care about Scotland and having a independence referendum. A party who don't know their identity and can't decide what their views are.
 
Andrew said:
I'd rather have someone in power that will at least attempt to save it rather than privatise everything. I'd rather be hopeful and take the chance that Corbyn can change things tbh
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A genuine question, why are you against privatisation?
 
smudge said:
A genuine question, why are you against privatisation?
Click to expand...

Simple fact is when things get privatised, we have to pay more. It becomes about the business side of things rather than the original goal of the company. Happened with the trains, happened with the post, and it's likely that it'd happen with the health service too
 
The problem with a lot of what Corbyn says is that it's very expensive and he has so far not convinced me that he can do the things he promises without huge tax increases or more borrowing.

New Labour promised a vast number of new hospitals and schools which they did indeed deliver under PFI and we are still paying for them two decades later.
 
Andrew said:
Simple fact is when things get privatised, we have to pay more. It becomes about the business side of things rather than the original goal of the company. Happened with the trains, happened with the post, and it's likely that it'd happen with the health service too
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response, Andrew. Just my thoughts on the matter, although of course I respect your opinion; I agree that we would have to pay more but 1) you only pay when you need/want it 2) you get a better service.

The trains, for sure, have improved since privatisation. A long way from perfect, but jeez, they were abysmal.

The NHS. Private treatment is (on the whole) a service better than the NHS. Same doctors, just quicker treatment, better aftercare, more comfort in your stay etc etc. I mean if the NHS was privatised, everyone would have to get medical cover, either through their employer or themselves. Insurance may well actually be cheaper than our tax contributions. Especially if it was subsidised by your employer. I suppose there's the argument that what about the people that don't work/have an income, but then with no income, how can you really survive anyway. (And I mean any income, this could be benefits etc.)

It's a given (and very good practice as a consumer) that business make money (profit.) Without this further investments, innovation & improvements will just not happen. This is fundamentally bad for us as a buyer/consumer.
 
I don't recall any political party saying they want to privatise the whole of the NHS...ever, not once.
I know it is virtually broke due to pressures of demand, with increased expectations of the public, and an ageing population, but no party has ever declared an intent to close it down.
Our NHS is generally accepted worldwide as a good system that works and offers very good value per patient overall.
Don't ever think private medical insurance offers an alternative economic model affordable to all, it simply doesn't work that way. There is always the "view to profit" and shareholder dividend to pay, as well as massive administrative and accounting costs on top of the basic healthcare provision charges.
A client of mine who has homes in the UK and USA, youngish and in general good health, pays ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH in health insurance for comparable treatment cover to the NHS in the UK...over a hundred and fifty quid a week, and she is only resident there half the time, and her premiums are adjusted for this. If she was ever hospitalised she only has basic cover, so there would be lots of "extras" to pay, the first thing the hospital wants on admission is you insurance details, then, after a day or so, they visit you at bedside to get your credit card details. Lovely system isn't it?
If she steps out of her residency state, she has absolutely no health cover at all...that is how the system works. Fancy getting additional travel health cover for a trip to the Towers anyone???

On a lighter note, if Labour get into office, Uncle Jeremy will give us all an extra three bank holidays a year, as well as fix the NHS, schools and redevelop the national infrastructure.
I wonder where he has hidden the pot of gold to pay for it all?
 
Private healthcare only sounds like a good idea if you're well off and healthy. A private system would absolutely be cheaper for you in that case, but that's entirely besides the point. As a society, we decided ages ago that everyone has a right to education and healthcare (amongst other things) regardless of the ability to pay. I'm genuinely concerned that we could soon be losing those rights.
 
Rob, i don't think anyone suggested going down the 'American dream' route either. On that though, Regardless of what your friend pays, a lot of people in America pay bugger-all as they are covered though their employer. Maybe it would encourage citizens to work hard at school and get a 'good' job that has medical cover? (A silly add-on point, granted.)

In response to John's (very correct) point too, just because 'we' as a society decided something 'ages ago' doesn't make that right either. I certainly didn't vote for or against people's rights to education/healthcare. We're in a democracy where if people can make the decision to leave the EU (ffs) then surely it's our right to vote to change 'the right to free healthcare and education?' Not just 'we decided that as a society ages ago' so it must be adhered to.

I personally do not think anyone should be entitled to 'free' healthcare or education after they turn 18. Before then, hell yes.
 
Let's just have a quick reality check here. Despite its failings and the perceptions of it propagated by right wing newspapers, the NHS is the best value health service in the world. Period. Don't believe me? Look it up, there is no other health service that provides that level of care for the money put in to it.

The NHS is a bargain. Most normal people pay less than £100 - £150 a month for it! Any suggestions that we need to look at models in other countries is distracting as they either pay less in because they get a far smaller service or get a better service for significantly more cash. Despite the fact we all slag the NHS off because we want a better service, most of the rest of the world envy us for it.

The crisis in the NHS is incredibly easy to solve. As @rob666 has already mentioned new drugs and treatments over the decades have made its operation more expensive. Private medical insurance companies have simply jacked their prices up significantly to pay for this. Demand is also increasing dramatically, again if you were a private medical insurer you would simply get more premiums for every extra patient. But for some reason we're deluded into thinking we can have top notch health care at rock bottom prices! Just put taxes up, simple. Most people can afford more, I'm one of them. If they put my national insurance contributions up a tenner next month I wouldn't even notice, yet it would dramatically increase the services finances.

At the same time we could also stop stuffing the mouths of wealthy over 65's full of gold at the taxpayers expense rather than demonising poor and disabled people.
 
Privatisation of the railways is one thing but what we have done is utterly demented. The system is still vastly subsidised by the public purse.

In terms of the welfare state and the health service. I think it's a wonderful idea but is utterly unsustainable in its current form. I am suspicious of any politician who says that it isn't.
 
Yeah, pay more, get a better service. Completely agree in principle but the NHS can't work like that. These over 65's being stuffed full of gold you mentioned, you realise they contribute more to 'the pot' than anyone else, right? Higher earners pay more tax, period. Do they get a better service? No. They get the same service as anyone else. That could be someone like me and you who pay our taxes every month, add to society and live a healthy life, yet it could be someone in our country illegally that shoots up every waking moment. (To clarify, I'm not suggesting illegals are bad, or immigration is bad I was merely trying to point out the other end of the spectrum.) There seems no incentive to strive to achieve. Most higher earners don't even use the NHS, yet contribute more to it than maybe 100 regular users.

Maybe there should just be an option to 'opt out?'
 
Serious questions - Why can't the NHS work like that? If I want to go further in my car, I put more fuel in it. I'm interested in to why you think we can't just put more money in since it clearly offers good value for it.

- No, I didn't realise that the current generation of over 65's have paid in more than the generations before them and are likely to pay more than the generations after them, so are therefore entitled to much more. Do you have a credible source for this?
 
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