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The Alton Towers Dungeon

The thing about Warwick castle dungeon is there’s nothing else really to fill your day apart from walking around the castle. So a nice trip to the dungeon is part of your day and a good time filler.
Towers on the other hand is sometimes 10-4 and like others said, what average theme park guest is going to take an hour out of their day to visit the dungeons? They already complain they only manage like 3 rides their entire day.
 
I think it probably will be a pretty decent attraction (NOT "Stunning") but OK. but my gripe, just as with the star spying sheds is that it's not progress. It wont last long, it's not a stand out thing, it's just something to bung on an advert for next year. and that's whats caused so many problems over the past decade. Hyping things up to be things they are not and shoving stuff in just for marketing for that year.

People don't go to Disney because this years advert looks good.
 
Family of 4 going to Alton Towers £110 with 2 for 1 tickets.
Then they see the queue line boards with all coasters a hour plus.
After queuing 90 mins for the Smiler there more likely gonna buy fast track tickets then spend £30+ for a 30 min dungeon experience.
Merlin better make it good as I can see a queue forming just for this at guest Services.
 
The quality of Merlin’s Midway stuff is normally better than RTP. I wonder whether Midway in RTP means dragging quality up or pulling it down?

SeaLife in parks seems to not be too bad, but they wouldn’t stand up well as a separate Midway relative to those SeaLifes which are separate.

Does that mean we’ll get a Dungeons-lite? Or will it be better because it’s paid?

My guess is somewhere in the middle.
 
I think this has all the ingredients of a PR nightmare.

There's been plenty of times when free attractions have been replaced by up charge ones - 3D Cinema replaced by that early VR thing, Swans replaced by that water karting thing, Ripsaw being replaced by a bouncy castle etc. Leaving aside the obvious issues of comparable worthiness and longevity, these attractions have received little marketing and I don't recall there being that much non-enthusiast backlash (although I guess in the case of 4D and Swans we are talking pre-social media era).

What's more concerning is the park appear to be positioning this as their big 2019 attraction - and I'm not too sure there's a precedent for that. Merlin already very much walk the line in terms of fleecing punters - unless they find a way to integrate the Dungeons in to the main gate price I fear they very much risk altering the balance of perceived value.

The Around The World In 80 Days boat system has the potential to eat queues very satisfactorily. (It was often said that Toyland Tours was "unpopular" in its last years; it wasn't - it just was able to service demand such that it was rare for a queue of more than a couple of boats to form.) It seems like utter folly to waste that much needed capacity on a low-demand second gate. By all means create a second experience using the Charlie lifts and/or a bunch of shipping container extensions; that would absolutely make sense.
 
To give you some idea of what this attraction will be costing Merlin, I was looking through one of their investor presentations earlier today, and their 4 year CAPEX cycle (peak, low, medium, low) dictates that 2019 should be a low year for Alton, as Wicker Man in 2018 represented a peak year. I'd personally predict that to be around £3-5m, as I'd guess that Alton Towers will get one of the higher budgets in the RTPs operating group for a low year. Not sure if I'm right or not, but I'm sure I heard somewhere that the budgets for each type of year are dictated by the amount of visitors a park gets.

For some reference, CATCF set the park back £8m in 2006, although I'm not sure how much of that would have gone towards the elevators and the IP license. However, the Dungeons probably won't be utilising any new ride hardware, as far as we're currently aware, so the entire budget can go towards theming! That gives me great faith in it to be a good attraction! Also, remember that Hex only cost the park £4m, and look how well that turned out! That involved a brand new ride system, too!
 
Your forgetting that M£rlin Studios charge £80,000 to paint a fence panel. :p

I'm not up to date on spending calculations. does that £3-5 million cover one attraction or will it have to also include Twirling Toadstools and Blade repair/replacement?
 
I'd love to share your optimism.

Hex was innovative and a lot of thought went into creating the experience. The dungeons look like they'll just be a copy-paste exercise. Of course, I could be wrong. We'll find out in due course.
 
Croftybaby said:
I'm not up to date on spending calculations. does that £3-5 million cover one attraction or will it have to also include Twirling Toadstools and Blade repair/replacement?
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The £3-5m was honestly just a guess. I'd have to have someone with a bit more knowledge of the financial side of Merlin clarify how much a low year actually costs at Alton Towers.

And I'm not sure about the answer to your question either, sorry!
 
As second gate one might nievely assume that the capex comes from a different budget? Much like how the hotel investments are from a different budget allocation?

Plus £4m when hex opened is about £5m in today's money, at the tippy top of the quoted low budget.

Also to add the attraction into CCL and not retheme the area and add some family flats to support would be especially criminal, and the only way I see that happening is multiple year investment as in ceebebies.
 
I’m not completely convinced that Alton will actually be paying for the Dungeon from their regular budget to be honest. I have a feeling that the money will either come out of a separate fund that is normally for the construction of new midway attractions, or as a one off investment considering it is being called a “second gate”. Or possibly a bit of both.

With rumour that there is another attraction on the cards for 2019 (please be a flat ride), I can see all / most of Alton’s allocated budget going towards that rather than the Dungeons. And Twirling Toadstool’s restoration should really be coming from the TLC budget, at least that’s what the TLC scheme was supposed to be for.. right?
 
Robert.W said:
With rumour that there is another attraction on the cards for 2019 (please be a flat ride), I can see all / most of Alton’s allocated budget going towards that rather than the Dungeons. And Twirling Toadstool’s restoration should really be coming from the TLC budget, at least that’s what the TLC scheme was supposed to be for.. right?
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Out of interest, where did you hear this, Robert? If you're allowed to disclose where, of course!

Only asking because I have heard nothing about another 2019 attraction, only about the Dungeons and the Stargazing Pods. Very exciting if we are to receive something else, though!
 
Matt N said:
Out of interest, where did you hear this, Robert? If you're allowed to disclose where, of course!

Only asking because I have heard nothing about another 2019 attraction, only about the Dungeons and the Stargazing Pods. Very exciting if we are to receive something else, though!
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This was posted on a Discord server (although I have also seen it mentioned in a couple of other places too). Unfortunately I know nothing more than that though as the person posting wasn't wanting to say anymore in case they got into trouble for it. They said that it was looking good though! :)
 
Robert.W said:
This was posted on a Discord server (although I have also seen it mentioned in a couple of other places too). Unfortunately I know nothing more than that though as the person posting wasn't wanting to say anymore in case they got into trouble for it. They said that it was looking good though! :)
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That's great news! Thanks @Robert.W!
 
Not surprised but v disappointed they're charging for this.

Disney would see this as an easy opportunity to add value to their guests experience... But don't forget Merlin are determined to 'overtake the mouse'. :rolleyes:

They've removed a decent family dark ride, let it rot for a few years, and eventually replaced it with something we have to pay for to experience.

Hope it's fails miserably tbh.

Top tip for next season: get on Ryanair and book up flights to Germany/Poland/Sweden/Holland for £30 return every couple of months - visit parks where you're a guest and not a customer.
 
Matt N said:
remember that Hex only cost the park £4m, and look how well that turned out! That involved a brand new ride system, too!
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Lurker said:
Plus £4m when hex opened is about £5m in today's money, at the tippy top of the quoted low budget.
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Remeber, when comparing prices for anything like for like, you have to adjust for inflation to get a somewhat more accurate representation.

4 million in 1999, when Hex would have been paid for, is close to 6.7 million in todays money. ;)

Another way to look at it. Pirate Adventure at Drayton Manor, one of the biggest and most highly themed dark rides in the UK, cost back in 1989 / 1990 about 1 million. You would struggle to get just the rides warehouse building the ride is housed in for that in todays money. Let alone the once fully themed lavish dark ride and ride system that was included in that price.
 
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