• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

The Brexit Thread

Nothing about this unfolding scares the EU ****less. Sure, it would be bad optics and the first massive failure of the union. But they absolutely have the upper-hand in this situation. I know that's no good for this country's inherited, anti-establishment, bulldog spirit or whatever, but it's just the economic case.

I live in and travel round Europe, and anecdotally, I can tell you that nobody I've ever met wants us to leave. They all think it's completely bananas, and the sheer complexity and pain of even taking this chance has presumably put any sensible country off for life, not matter what the more radical fringes of any individual government would demand.

SirDossa said:
Parliament have spent the last three years dwindling and dawdling over Brexit but what do we expect given that May was in charge for most of this period? Funny how things have only really started to progress since pro Brexit Boris took over?
Click to expand...

He did however literally have to break the law to get said progress, so swings and roundabouts.
 
The same "traitor" Bercow who was appauled by JRM for denying votes on May's deal yet was wrong to do the same for Boris?

This is the problem here, terms like traitor being bandied round like we're in the middle of a war... "ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE" as a bloody headline purely because of differing opinions and those combatting the potential for the country to go down the dark hole...

At the end of it all, what if May hadn't tried to "cement" Tory rule with that GE when they already had a majority? This might have been done and dusted... No one wanted a GE then, but maybe that was another Remainer "plot"?
 
Someone I work with lives in France and commutes to and from London for work. According to him, the "yellow vests" are still going strong, and many of them are watching Brexit closely. They want out too.
 
SirDossa said:
Parliament have spent the last three years dwindling and dawdling over Brexit but what do we expect given that May was in charge for most of this period? Funny how things have only really started to progress since pro Brexit Boris took over?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Further nonsense, what are they dawdling over if they had no control over the negotiations and nothing to vote on it.

The conservative government are entirely at blame here.

Don't forget brois' deal is just what May agreed, plus a concession on a border in the Irish sea (something May rejected based on her red lines). There has been zero progress whole Boris has been PM.
 
Lurker said:
Further nonsense, what are they dawdling over if they had no control over the negotiations and nothing to vote on it.

The conservative government are entirely at blame here.

Don't forget brois' deal is just what May agreed, plus a concession on a border in the Irish sea (something May rejected based on her red lines). There has been zero progress whole Boris has been PM.
Click to expand...

Zero progress due to the pro remain parliament doing everything they can to prevent Brexit.I go back to my point earlier about how Corbyn was filmed on national television saying they would vote against Boris’s deal BEFORE details of the deal Boris had made with the EU had even been released.Boris has been fighting a losing battle but each time he stands up to this current Remainer Parliament,he grows stronger in the eyes of the public and this will be reflected in the next GE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SirDossa said:
Zero progress due to the pro remain parliament doing everything they can to prevent Brexit.I go back to my point earlier about how Corbyn was filmed on national television saying they would vote against Boris’s deal BEFORE details of the deal Boris had made with the EU had even been released.Boris has been fighting a losing battle but each time he stands up to this current Remainer Parliament,he grows stronger in the eyes of the public and this will be reflected in the next GE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If the parliment is pro remain, and they were voted in after the referendum, how is there even a mandate for brexit and why should they follow that route? Democracy, as you'll be aware, always relies on the latest vote and mandate.

Can you give examples of these votes which parliment have taken which are pro remain? They've shot down the deal (in the last year) which isn't pro remain, as (for example) so did the ERG as it didn't represent "true brexit".

It's nonsense propaganda.
 
Lurker said:
If the parliment is pro remain, and they were voted in after the referendum, how is there even a mandate for brexit and why should they follow that route? Democracy, as you'll be aware, always relies on the latest vote and mandate.

Can you give examples of these votes which parliment have taken which are pro remain? They've shot down the deal (in the last year) which isn't pro remain, as (for example) so did the ERG as it didn't represent "true brexit".

It's nonsense propaganda.
Click to expand...

It really isn’t rocket science sir. The opposition to Brexit (currently the majority of MP’s in Parliament) will continue to vote any deal down not based on the policies outlined in the deal but based on the fact that they have no intention of wanting Brexit to happen..a notion which makes a complete mockery of democracy. They will do anything they can to try and secure another referendum and guess what? If they lost again,they would no doubt contest the result again.

We could also go round in circles here all night, everyone has their views and that’s fine.I do sometimes wish I adopted my partner’s view on things and simply refused to watch or read the news. She’s completely oblivious to it all, dare I say there are more important things in life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DiogoJ42 said:
We have a mug with that quote on it. ;)
Click to expand...
Is this what you drank the Brexit Kool Aid from? :kissingheart:

SirDossa said:
It really isn’t rocket science sir. The opposition to Brexit (currently the majority of MP’s in Parliament) will continue to vote any deal down not based on the policies outlined in the deal but based on the fact that they have no intention of wanting Brexit to happen..a notion which makes a complete mockery of democracy. They will do anything they can to try and secure another referendum and guess what? If they lost again,they would no doubt contest the result again.
Click to expand...
Switch the television on.
 
Last edited:
SirDossa said:
It really isn’t rocket science sir. The opposition to Brexit (currently the majority of MP’s in Parliament) will continue to vote any deal down not based on the policies outlined in the deal but based on the fact that they have no intention of wanting Brexit to happen..a notion which makes a complete mockery of democracy. They will do anything they can to try and secure another referendum and guess what? If they lost again,they would no doubt contest the result again.

We could also go round in circles here all night, everyone has their views and that’s fine.I do sometimes wish I adopted my partner’s view on things and simply refused to watch or read the news. She’s completely oblivious to it all, dare I say there are more important things in life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Remember these are the MPs who are democratically elected by the British public! The same can't be said for May or Johnson.

The vote was whether to remain in, or leave, the EU. Leave won by a very slim margin, however if you split that into people who want to leave without a deal, vs those who want a "soft brexit", there is no majority. So I think it's fair that a democratically elected parliament scrutinizes the actions of the prime minister to prevent us crashing out with no deal.

To be truly democratic we need another referendum, where 16/17 year olds and non-citizens are allowed to vote.
 
speedy said:
Remember these are the MPs who are democratically elected by the British public! The same can't be said for May or Johnson.

The vote was whether to remain in, or leave, the EU. Leave won by a very slim margin, however if you split that into people who want to leave without a deal, vs those who want a "soft brexit", there is no majority. So I think it's fair that a democratically elected parliament scrutinizes the actions of the prime minister to prevent us crashing out with no deal.

To be truly democratic we need another referendum, where 16/17 year olds and non-citizens are allowed to vote.
Click to expand...

On that basis we would need a vote every year or 2 in order to include the 16/17 year olds who missed out in the previous vote.

It’s quite ironic really that our democratically elected parliament has spent so much time trying to remain in a body which has been wholly unelected democratically Politics eh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SirDossa said:
On that basis we would need a vote every year or 2 in order to include the 16/17 year olds who missed out in the previous vote.

It’s quite ironic really that our democratically elected parliament has spent so much time trying to remain in a body which has been wholly unelected democratically Politics eh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
We do in fact elect our representatives in the European Parliament. I don't think it's ironic at all. We have our say in the EU, as do the other countries in it.

And no, the reason why we should have another referendum is because we had no clue what we were voting for. But to make any new referendum fairer, 16/17 year olds plus non-citizens from EU countries (who may be affected by Brexit the most) should be allowed to vote.
 
Bercow is a traitor, he is supposed to be an impartial, for want of a better word, referee, in fact as part of the process of getting the job, he has to renounce any allegiance to his party and promise to remain impartial, his job is to see that the rules of house are followed, not use his position to dictate government policy.

If we were still living in the Victorian era, he'd have been strung up by now for some of the stuff he has done.

Talk about stacking the deck @speedy, should we give the vote to domestic pets too?
 
IanSR said:
Bercow is a traitor, he is supposed to be an impartial, for want of a better word, referee, in fact as part of the process of getting the job, he has to renounce any allegiance to his party and promise to remain impartial, his job is to see that the rules of house are followed, not use his position to dictate government policy.

If we were still living in the Victorian era, he'd have been strung up by now for some of the stuff he has done.
Click to expand...

If the government has moved a motion and then declined to have a vote on it, they rightly don't get to re-ask the question. If they wanted a vote that badly, why didn't they do it the first time? There are rules and it's Bercow's job to enforce them. Just because Bobo thinks he's the god-pharaoh doesn't mean he is. Not to mention the fact that Bercow was a tory his whole career before becoming speaker.

Talk about stacking the deck @speedy, should we give the vote to domestic pets too?
Click to expand...

Implicit admission that if people directly affected by this nonsense got a say we'd be staying in.
 
SirDossa said:
On that basis we would need a vote every year or 2 in order to include the 16/17 year olds who missed out in the previous vote.

It’s quite ironic really that our democratically elected parliament has spent so much time trying to remain in a body which has been wholly unelected democratically Politics eh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The first referendum was advisory, the second one could be legally binding, if there are two clear brexit options. If it's legally binding, then the government and parliment have no option but to follow that path.

The leave campaign said themselves a confirmatory referenda may have to be used down the line to break the lock.

Glad to hear the 3 day time table was voted down. It was plainly impossible to give hundreds of pages of legal documents scrutiny in such a short time.
 
SirDossa said:
This is something that I will never understand. I know people on both sides but would never ever let someone's views on Politics get in the way of a friendship/relationship. Life is surely too short for that pal?
Click to expand...

I never have before but this is such a polarising issue and it's hard to ignore comments about 'taking our jobs' when one of my best mates is a very hard working Latvian who's been here for 6 years and no longer feels welcome.

We all know that the EU has it's problems and I'm not saying it doesn't need reform but I think a persons position on Brexit speaks volumes about their character.

I don't want to get personal, but that's very evident just from reading this thread!
 
@SirDossa @IanSR I am not a proponent of a second referendum, I am not sure how the result would go, either. I think predictions that Remain would come thumping home are a little naive.

The Brexit that was promised has gone (or you may argue never existed). If this particular deal had been put forward in 2016, rather than a load of meaningless rhetoric - I really don't think it would have won. We'll never know about then - but we could find out if it's acceptable to the country now - I think if anyone was able to convince me a referendum on the deal is sensible, that would be the basis of the argument.

If Remain had won on 52/48, there's no way we'd have cracked on adopting the single currency, integrating with Schengen etc - the Johnson deal is essentially the same thing the other way around.

I don't understand how more democracy is undemocratic. I struggle with that notion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top