BigT said:
Hi I'm back!!!
I've got to say this is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard, pay people £15k to do nothing until they find a job they like. What?
Everyone will just sit at home doing nothing, businesses will shut because they can't get staff and if they do find people gullible enough then they will be taxed so hard via corporation tax it wont be worth their while.
Big business will go elsewhere and the country will be on its knees.
The government has no money, remember that, it only distributes what it steals of people who work.
And then what about an incentive to the people who come up with an idea; sell, borrow and beg for money to start a business, then work all the hours god sends to make it work.
Why bother?
This is the silliest scaremongering I've heard for some time.
As I've already said, people wouldn't be sitting at home as very, very, very, few people want to live on £15,000 a year. It would be just about comfortable, but wouldn't really provide for an enjoyable active life. When surveyed, people pretty much unanimously want to live an active life. But the rewards of work at the lower end of the payscale never goes to the workers, it goes to paying their necessities rather then what they enjoy. A citizen's income empowers the worker to make the employer offer a fair deal.
As if big businesses would leave a country that they are still making profit in. Tax just takes it's fair share from that ridiculous profit margin, and they always make these empty threats of up and leaving, but I very much doubt McDonalds would shut all their thousands of doors because they aren't making quite as much as they were before the progressive tax. Besides, countries are much more than the international companies that invest in them and a localist market would easily take the big business's place.
As for the incentive of creating business, you are completely bonkers if you think having a dent in the extravagant pay of an executive or a businessman would convince him to give it up and sit on £15,000 a year. I can't see any of the major businesses owners deciding to give up their big wages (post tax), because the people dared to proportionally tax their income.
If these businessmen are as clever and brilliant as they claim to be, they wouldn't cut their own noses off to spite their face.
Fredward said:
It's not an obvious win win situation, This will only benefit the ones who do not want to earn more or much more then £15,000. And I mean that. Mainly because if you do choose to work, you will be heavily taxed it will be pointless. I do not want to my hard earned pay to go towards people who want £15,000 for nothing, regardless whether they are working to supplement that.
You constantly hear Tories going on about
lol, no I don't. Don't give a damn about listening to any political groups, I don't vote.
"last I don't vote" part was mainly for trolling reasons. 
the unemployed aren't on the whole choosing not to work
You'd be suprised about that... A lot of people get offered jobs, but refuse them due to having to get up at 8 or 9. or because they can get less then what they get paid with job seekers/not enough to warrant them getting off job seekers.
Obviously this isn't everyone, but there is a lot of people with that mindset and can we blame them? You'll be surprised how many jobs are out there, but just aren't easy to get without work experience and aren't exactly dream jobs.
but that is an alternative topic.
Either way, I can't be bothered with this topic anymore, this whole have £15,000 for doing NOTHING is a stupid idea. You can reply in kind, but my reply's will now be only half arsed.
1) You are putting words in my mouth which I never said. People earning over £15,000 wouldn't be heavily taxed. Tax will be proportional to income, which it isn't now since the current benefit system doesn't require those earning millions to pay anywhere near their fair share. To make a Citizen's income work it would fall upon the rich and super-rich to be taxed proportionally. Only those in the upper-brackets would have any significant change, and even then they would still remain wealthier than the rest of society. You are inventing this scenario where massive taxation of everyone over £15,000 would be necessary, when that simply is not the case.
Also, it's not £15,000 'for nothing', it's £15,000 to free them from wage slavery. At the moment people are stuck in dead end jobs where the employer has all the power to work them to the bone. 5 days a week for a pittance. No-one knows this more than my mum who has been forced into the position of working 7 days a week just to cover what most would consider basic living standards.
You can sit back there and moan about 'your' money going to help people like my mum, but if you were in the same position as her, you would recognise the value in the idea and accept it as a necessary step to an economic democracy.
2) That second part about not listening to political groups is completely obtuse. I clearly wasn't saying you specifically listen to them, It was just a turn of phrase to introduce what the Conservatives yapp on about.
3) I don't believe it. There is probably a tiny minority of unemployed people, but most, like myself, are desperate to find work but when searching 5 hours every day (weekends included), but only find 3 - 9 (max) positions to apply for a week. For each of those positions 100s of applicants flock to them. There's no way that there are even enough jobs to even offer to people who then turn them down.
4) The Citizen's Income is not a stupid idea, and it's a shame you are unwilling to commit time to arguing your point in a non-half arsed way. I'm always up to be convinced that I'm wrong (even though I rarely am
).
