The Four Day Week

[TheMan]

Heralded as a triumph for the labour movement, the 40 hour 5 day week signaled the end of the 19th Century industrial working "week".

In a bold move, The Gambia has shortened their working week to 4 days as a standard, to allow its inhabitants to "allow Gambians to devote more time to prayers, social activities and agriculture".
(Whilst maintaining a 40 hour week, within hours many here work 5/6 even 7 days a week!)

I truly believe this country is heading backwards, fast, in terms of it's attitude of work/life/family balance, it is completely wrong and very much evidenced by the societal problems that we encounter on a daily basis.

Two full time working parents, in standard hours, and bringing up children does not on the whole work. How can it? It is not how we evolved as a species, and has profound effects. I am not saying either/or parent should stay home - but the pressures placed on us today, by the relentless increasing speed and capitalism, funds much like the initial periods of industrialisation, the further wealth of oligarchs and an increasing dangerous class divide.

I like the sense of sentiment behind the Gambia's actions. I am sure there is more depth to this I am unaware of, but that isn't the point.

It is about time, that we stopped returning toward the days we had supposedly left behind.

Is it time to worry less about keeping up with the Jones' and more about embracing a more inherently practical, sensitive, and rational approach to work/life/family balance?

Please don't debate the "two of us must work to afford this etc" - it is a moot point, and against the essence of this topic - the endless drive of competition between people, increases the ability for bosses/companies to play to that, and reduce conditions and require more and more for less and less, which is self evident now in this country.

The question is, is it time now for an entire movement to stop this pattern - it cannot continue exponentially, as many are already at breaking point.

There is more info in regards to above here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21242782

I believe the balance is totally out and needs serious readjustment, both for the benefit of the Country, and those who inhabit her.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Interesting idea. A four day week would mean more shifts would be needed to get the work done, creating more jobs. The down side is that everyone would earn less. But then more free time...
Hmmmm....

 

[TheMan]

Interesting idea. A four day week would mean more shifts would be needed to get the work done, creating more jobs. The down side is that everyone would earn less. But then more free time...
Hmmmm....

It is indeed the case here, but in The Gambia they are increasing the daily working hours, so that the same work is done in 4 days, with 3 days off to devote to personal pursuits - the problem here is, most people work at least those hours 5/6 days a week already - many for free (overtime), which is why I talked about how that is rather too workhouse and heading in the wrong direction for people and families to have an appropriate balance.

We couldn't do what they have, but surely we have to start thinking about ways that we can, is really the point I am making - for everyone's good (except arguably those making horrific amounts of coin from others hard graft).

I wouldn't expect many would take the extra day off and spend it praying either lol!

 

[Poisson]

Soon the family won't exist......if it still does atm

 

[Pixie-Ro]

Soon the family won't exist......if it still does atm

This is a very sad statement. Maybe the old-fashioned notion of male and female parents and 2.4 children won't be the dominant 'family' (although I don't think it will ever become obselete), but a family doesn't have to fit into this category for it to be a family. A family can be a couple with no children, a single parent with many children, a large family with step parents/children, a group of friends who act as family. Family are simply the people in your life who love and support you, and you do the same for them. And personally I would happily work a few extra hours a day to have an extra day to spend time with mine, after all when you're on your deathbed, you're certainly not going to wish you had spent more time at work.

 

[BSwiss]

There are a lot of wasted working hours here. One of my major gripes is the likes of dentists only opening within the 9-5 (with a 2 hour lunch break where I used to live, even taking 3 weeks off for Christmas). This means that I have to take time out of work to visit them. Whereas the likes of NHS blood donation clinics will stay open until the late evening so more people can donate. Plus I imagine the people running the donation clinics are earning a lot less than the dentists.

Or the worst is when you get a 'sorry, you were out' notification and the depot is only open during the 9-5.

This isn't an attack at any specific industry, but I think work hours should be altered for many roles to make the services more accessible.

And if this creates more jobs and leads to shareholders and executives taking a wage-cut then that will warm my little lefty heart.

 

[Sam]

I completely agree with this. I've long thought that when we have only one life to live, spending five days out of seven working for most of your life is madness.

The work/life balance in this country is completely wrong. People should work less. But to do that, they're going to have to reduce their expenditure by no longer frittering it away on stupid things, like the enormous amount of clothing people buy.

Also, tougher laws need to be introduced to ensure people aren't doing overtime for free. If you have to do extra work for your job, you should be paid for it. Simple as.

 

[AstroDan]

The French tend to have a good idea when it comes to work/life balance, but then - it's how do they afford it etc.

I do think too many people here work 50-60+ hours a week, and it's not good for health, relationships etc.

 

[Poisson]

Soon the family won't exist......if it still does atm

This is a very sad statement. Maybe the old-fashioned notion of male and female parents and 2.4 children won't be the dominant 'family' (although I don't think it will ever become obselete), but a family doesn't have to fit into this category for it to be a family. A family can be a couple with no children, a single parent with many children, a large family with step parents/children, a group of friends who act as family. Family are simply the people in your life who love and support you, and you do the same for them. And personally I would happily work a few extra hours a day to have an extra day to spend time with mine, after all when you're on your deathbed, you're certainly not going to wish you had spent more time at work.

I don't care how the family unit is made up, I meant by the statement that we don't devote enough time to each other but devote too much time to work.

 

[Pixie-Ro]

Apologies then for the misinterpretation but surely the whole point of family is that they will always be your family, no matter how often you see them? My parents live 4 hours away from me and because we all work I don't get to see them as often as I would like. Doesn't mean we love each other any less, but it would be nice to have a 3 day weekend to go and spend time with them! It's not always about 'devoting' time to work, as that makes it sound like people would rather work than spend time with their loved ones...it's about having to work to pay your bills.

 

[Sam]

If people spent less money on clothing they don't need (who really needs more than half a dozen of each clothing item...?) then they wouldn't have to work so much.

Seriously, the amount of money people spend on clothes in this country is absurd. It's a national disease.

 

[TheMan]

Extremely pleased to find the general attitude in here is one of the "more important" things in life.

This begs the question...

Why do we put up with it? And what exactly can be done to change this?

Ultimately I did the sums and posted them publicly, as to how many people could have jobs, based on the rich list in this country alone - and I am relatively sure it pretty much wiped out European unemployment with people earning an admittedly low living wage (not a low wage, a low living wage).

Make no mistake, there are a few very wealthy people whom are creating these situations - I am not against wealth, or even peoples choice to work hard if they choose to devote their lives to it. Clearly though the balance is not only wrong right now, it is pretty outrageous.

Ok, a few of us on a coaster forum aren't going to change the world, but I feel very happy knowing others feel this same way.

<3

;D

 

[delta79]

Not counting work and St John uniform. i have 3 pairs of trousers, 3 t shirts, 3 sweaters, 1 pair of walking boots, 1 waterproof coat, 1 warm coat, 5 boxers and 5 pairs of sock and that's it.

So this goes against the wasting money on clothes argument.

All my money goes on living. ok, i have two luxuries, basic sky and boardband.
I don't do nights out, I don't drink, the closest i get to a takeaway is sharing a pack of 8 basic sausage rolls with my wife and daughter.

4 day week will mean 4 days pay and more hardship of poor families.

 

[Fredward]

Surely it's personal preference?

Some people like their job and work, like buying clothes and earning more money/ can't afford less.

I personally would prefer a 4 day week. But I don't see why we should force one way or another, perhaps make managers provide more options on how to perform their employees shift with 4 or 5 day being a base.

I feel forcing people to do with what you think is best is the reverse of free will.

 

[Sam]

Surely it's personal preference?

Some people like their job and work, like buying clothes and earning more money/ can't afford less.

I personally would prefer a 4 day week. But I don't see why we should force one way or another, perhaps make managers provide more options on how to perform their employees shift with 4 or 5 day being a base.

I feel forcing people to do with what you think is best is the reverse of free will.

There's little choice in it. The vast majority of jobs are five days, 9 to 5. This isn't anything to do with people being able to choose what they want to do. Moving to a four day working week would require a massive cultural, legislative and political shift.

It's nothing like what you're talking about, you've misunderstood the issue entirely.

 

[Fredward]

Surely it's personal preference?

Some people like their job and work, like buying clothes and earning more money/ can't afford less.

I personally would prefer a 4 day week. But I don't see why we should force one way or another, perhaps make managers provide more options on how to perform their employees shift with 4 or 5 day being a base.

I feel forcing people to do with what you think is best is the reverse of free will.

There's little choice in it. The vast majority of jobs are five days, 9 to 5. This isn't anything to do with people being able to choose what they want to do. Moving to a four day working week would require a massive cultural, legislative and political shift.

It's nothing like what you're talking about, you've misunderstood the issue entirely.

No I've said it's better to give people a choice. You've misunderstood my post entirely.

 

[TheMan]

4 day week will mean 4 days pay and more hardship of poor families.

Missed a point dude, many do overtime for free, and it was about re-balancing the week in favour of giving families more time together, by a more flexible working environment as the "norm".

It is about considering, if you could make the work up (which most do anyway!) by Thursday, would you prefer it that way rather than 5 days 2 off. This isn't a perfect question, and it isn't in detail, it is simply about the theory of the idea.

I feel forcing people to do with what you think is best is the reverse of free will.

I was about to misunderstand your post too Fredward lol! - The point being made is that, choice is made from a given point. Right now we make choices based on 5 day weeks, so if it was 4, but you could choose to do 5, who actually would? And in fact staggered times and far more flexible times where possible can ease traffic burdens, thus save costs etc, at the moment though it is all based on a fundamental 5 day principle.

I believe it can improve for families, (maybe not bosses who want to coin it in excessively at employees cost) and actually make society as a whole potentially better by giving back families more time to spend together.

 

[Fredward]

I was about to misunderstand your post too Fredward lol! - The point being made is that, choice is made from a given point. Right now we make choices based on 5 day weeks, so if it was 4, but you could choose to do 5, who actually would? And in fact staggered times and far more flexible times where possible can ease traffic burdens, thus save costs etc, at the moment though it is all based on a fundamental 5 day principle.

I believe it can improve for families, (maybe not bosses who want to coin it in excessively at employees cost) and actually make society as a whole potentially better by giving back families more time to spend together.

Believe me I see the benefits of a 4 day week, and would love to embrace them! But there is more people out there then just us and some may want to work 5 days. I'm just saying that can't we have an option for both.

I understand the debate and it's no use debating the pros and cons as I agree with you. But there are some people out there who would want an option and I'm saying how about instead of just giving a standardised 4 day or 5 day a week. Have an option of hours and how to allocate them (within reason of course)

My main post was mainly in response to Sam's

If people spent less money on clothing they don't need (who really needs more than half a dozen of each clothing item...?) then they wouldn't have to work so much.

Seriously, the amount of money people spend on clothes in this country is absurd. It's a national disease.

but thought I would phrase it as a universal statement, I believe that is what has caused confusion.

While I'm not a fashion-centric person, Some people love to buy clothes, it can essentially be their hobby. Just like buying games, Lego, Warhammer ext. If they want the money to do that, can't they work more to have that option? I find statements like that annoying because it's a decision that may not affect the poster, but will affect others greatly. It's almost on the edge of selfishness. Though that is a bit of an extreme statement.

Hope my point now makes more sense. I was just pointing out that standardised times are bad on the whole be it 4 day weeks or 5 day weeks. Options; everyone does not fit in the same mould.

 

[TheMan]

Options; everyone does not fit in the same mould.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Meat Pie]

This all really hinges on reversing the dynamic of the employer/worker power relationship. At the moment, the employer says jump, and we all do. Your life get's sucked away, shackled to a job, not living your life. It's what I call rest-bite culture. We work, we work and we work, but from time to time we get a rest-bite, which is clearly not enough to live a fulfilled and enjoyable life.

What's interesting is that after the great plague, the Lords of the land had lost many of their serfs they needed to work the land. This gave the Serfs bargaining power like they never had before and for the very first time we saw the slave class become the working class, and attain a reward for a day's work as well as the beginning of worker's rights. Since then it's been a constant struggle for the workers' to win more and more of their lives back from employers who hold everything. However, as population has again boomed since the dark ages, we see that once again the Lords of the land hold the power, as increased competition for work devalues the worker, meaning the bargaining tools are lost and progression of rights slows dramatically.

So how do we win progress back without some kind of horrifying genocide/mass death? The answer is, a Citizen's Income.

The principle behind the Citizen's Income is that it is everyone's right to have material security. Every citizen would receive pay to cover their essential bills, and it is this that would completely change the power structure. Now worker's would be able to make demands, such as a four day week, or higher pay for unrewarding jobs. The more comfortable jobs would become less valuable, and the more uncomfortable one's would become higher in value. It would be a revolutionary change that would free worker's from wage slavery and empower them to make their own economic decisions without the fear of starvation or freezing or having no electricity.

I know this has gone off in a bit of an irrelevant tangent (as it seems I manage to do with every topic these days ), but I feel that if you really want to make progressive change that allows the every day person to enjoy life, then this is the best way of empowering them to do so.