jon81uk
TS Member
Haven’t they? I recall investment into the NHS being significantly better under Blair.
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The Great Squeeze: Cost of Living Crisis 2022
- Thread starter AstroDan
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Dave
TS Founding Member
Bold claim, what evidence are you using for this forecast?
The country improved when Labour where last in power, economists even point out that recovery from the 2008 global crash was far better in the immediate aftermath whilst Labour still ran the country and then stagnated once the Tory’s got control.
Literally the only thing anyone brings up that was overly negative about the last Labour government is the Iraq war, which was certainly a bad move but it’s one thing compared to the list of crap we have seen in the last 12 years.
From a left wingers perspective they didn’t go far enough on re-nationalisation sure but I would take the positive of 1997 to 2010 than the horror show we have now.
Benzin
TS Member
That is... a weird stance to take given that every country in Europe has had to deal with the same things over the past few years and aren't doing too badly considering.
Almost like being part of a trading bloc softens the blow of worldwide issues.
It's also a shame that the idea of "all politicians are the same" is still rife throughout. Whilst I was particularly fond of Corbyn generally, I wouldn't put him in the same boat as the current incumbents.
Investment isn’t so much an issue in the NHS it’s more about recruitment and retention of staff. Funding comes in where we need more beds due to all the new houses going up - but then what’s the point of new units if you can’t staff them.
And before anyone says Brexit, it was Labour that but the number of places offered for training nurses and cut the bursaries. This has since been restored but we need to encourage more young people to want to take up a career in healthcare than relying on foreign Labour, even as far away as Thailand in the past.
As for Europe having to deal with the pandemic, cost of living crisis etc, yeah some European countries are doing better but some are not.
Inflation is creeping up in all EU countries with some now having higher rates than the UK - Spain, Greece, Netherlands for example. The EU average inflation rate is 9.8% just looking this morning, the UK is 10.1% so not a vast difference.
As for energy prices, the Uk is second most expensive in the EU for electric but average for gas. There are other EU countries with higher costs.
Soaring energy prices: How does the UK compare with Europe?
The UK's energy bills will jump by 80% a year from October. But how do Britain's prices compare with the rest of Europe? Who in Europe is paying the most? Who is paying the least? #UncoveringEurope
www.euronews.com
Same for petrol and diesel. Prices up across the EU and the UK isn’t the most expensive, and with other states closely priced to ours
European fuel prices – Petrol and diesel prices in Europe | RAC Drive
Are you planning a trip to the continent? Make sure you find out how much you'll have to pay for diesel or petrol at the pumps.
With regards food prices, again we are not the most expensive in the EU with their prices shooting up across states. The EU inflation rate for food now exceeds that of the UK.
UK food inflation vs the rest of the world: how Britain compares
UK food inflation has hit 8.6% - but closer to Russia it is over 20%
www.thegrocer.co.uk
We can compare political parties and the state of the UK vs EU for infinity, but fact is the EU is seeing the same problems as us, with some states performing better than others, but the overall picture is one similar to that of the UK. These are global problems we are seeing and I still don’t think any government could have done a good job of handling this triple whammy.
My question is going back to my original post, who is fit to run the country. Presently the UK is like US, millions of people in the population and no one standing out as a leader.
Maybe it’s time we have a mixed government made up of all the political parties in equal share.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Out of interest; if the Tories are so awful, why have they won the last 4 elections?
And how did they beat the great government that was in place between 1997 and 2010? I was under the impression Blair and Brown were both held in rather high regard, no?
I’d like a Labour government too, but I’m just curious as to how the Conservatives consistently get in when they seem so hated,
And how did they beat the great government that was in place between 1997 and 2010? I was under the impression Blair and Brown were both held in rather high regard, no?
I’d like a Labour government too, but I’m just curious as to how the Conservatives consistently get in when they seem so hated,
AT86
TS Member
It’s the same cycle over and over isn’t it?
Tories cut public spending back to the bone. Hospitals crumble, schools get less money, roads rot and so on.
People eventually get fed up of that and vote Labour in. They need to spend big in order to get things back to where they need to be to make up for years of poor investment.
People get fed up of ‘too much spending/debt’ etc and vote the Tories back in.
And off the cycle goes again…
Tories cut public spending back to the bone. Hospitals crumble, schools get less money, roads rot and so on.
People eventually get fed up of that and vote Labour in. They need to spend big in order to get things back to where they need to be to make up for years of poor investment.
People get fed up of ‘too much spending/debt’ etc and vote the Tories back in.
And off the cycle goes again…
Matt.GC
TS Member
2010 - They didn't win
2015 - Collapse of the Lib Dems handing most of their seats to the Tories
2017 - They didn't win again
2019 - Brexit, Corbyn, Boris popularity
The repeated failure to renationalise under clause 4 concerned, and concerns, me more than Butcher Blairs bloody hands.
Rather a few people on the left have raised that issue over the years, repeatedly.
You can't say "literally the only thing" and raise two issues!
Cost of living squeeze.
Gas and electric up by 300%
Wood and coal up by around 15%
Not looking good for a cleaner planet.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Investment isn’t so much an issue in the NHS it’s more about recruitment and retention of staff. Funding comes in where we need more beds due to all the new houses going up - but then what’s the point of new units if you can’t staff them.
And before anyone says Brexit, it was Labour that but the number of places offered for training nurses and cut the bursaries. This has since been restored but we need to encourage more young people to want to take up a career in healthcare than relying on foreign Labour, even as far away as Thailand in the past.
As for Europe having to deal with the pandemic, cost of living crisis etc, yeah some European countries are doing better but some are not.
Inflation is creeping up in all EU countries with some now having higher rates than the UK - Spain, Greece, Netherlands for example. The EU average inflation rate is 9.8% just looking this morning, the UK is 10.1% so not a vast difference.
As for energy prices, the Uk is second most expensive in the EU for electric but average for gas. There are other EU countries with higher costs.
Soaring energy prices: How does the UK compare with Europe?
The UK's energy bills will jump by 80% a year from October. But how do Britain's prices compare with the rest of Europe? Who in Europe is paying the most? Who is paying the least? #UncoveringEurope
Same for petrol and diesel. Prices up across the EU and the UK isn’t the most expensive, and with other states closely priced to ours
European fuel prices – Petrol and diesel prices in Europe | RAC Drive
Are you planning a trip to the continent? Make sure you find out how much you'll have to pay for diesel or petrol at the pumps.www.rac.co.uk
With regards food prices, again we are not the most expensive in the EU with their prices shooting up across states. The EU inflation rate for food now exceeds that of the UK.
UK food inflation vs the rest of the world: how Britain compares
UK food inflation has hit 8.6% - but closer to Russia it is over 20%
We can compare political parties and the state of the UK vs EU for infinity, but fact is the EU is seeing the same problems as us, with some states performing better than others, but the overall picture is one similar to that of the UK. These are global problems we are seeing and I still don’t think any government could have done a good job of handling this triple whammy.
My question is going back to my original post, who is fit to run the country. Presently the UK is like US, millions of people in the population and no one standing out as a leader.
Maybe it’s time we have a mixed government made up of all the political parties in equal share.
Labour had a limit on nursing places because when they where in power retention was higher (because they maintained pay to inflation), and therefore they didn’t need additional training capacity as there wasn’t the vacancies to fill.
The nursing bursary was axed in 2015 by George Osbourne (Tory). This was at the same time they started charging tuition fees for NHS courses (previously they didn’t).
Your article on food inflation also points out that the UK had higher food inflation prior to 2022 than the EU, so although EU rates have increased on average to exceed the UK (mostly countries bordering Russia that are dragging up the average), the EU had lower food inflation prior to the conflict so the price rise over time is lower than the UK (that be called Brexit).
Fuel and energy are more uniform across the board though countries like France have insulated their populations better, same with energy. UK actually has a bit of an advantage on Gas as we never sourced a lot of it from Russia and we have a relatively high renewables use in the UK.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Around Iraq being the only contentious issue for Labour previously, I was referring to the centre voters who ultimately decide who wins an election, re-nationalisation has only really become an area of support in centre politics in the last 5 years.
There are other things to criticise Labour for from a left wing perspective (PFI’s for instance is another). But for me, every Labour government has improved the country, perfect no but ultimately did more good than harm.
Because (which takes me back to my initial question)? Who else was there to vote for? There hasn’t been any decent competition from another political party for a long time, that’s why they have got in each time.
Dave
TS Founding Member
It’s also because the UK print media is incredibly bias towards the Tory party and the Tory party where to be fair to them far better at using social media.
shakey
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Wild Mouse - Blackpool - :(
Depends how you look at it. In terms of share of the vote, the Tories have had the biggest share in 11 of the last 14 general elections, and all of the last 4.
The run of 3 elections that Labour won from 1997 was started mainly because of 3 things... Labour moved away from its socialist policies, they promised devolution in Scotland (so bought a lot of Scottish votes), and the Tories had lost the plot.
We are now in a situation where Labour have again moved more to the centre (after Corbyn), but not as much as Blair did. And the Tories have lost the plot. No Scottish votes this time though.
I have said this before and I will say it again. We are lucky enough to live in a country where all the mainstream parties are relatively moderate. The conservative party would be considered very left wing in the USA.
So I don't really care who wins the next election because it probably won't make any difference to me or indeed 90% of the population. The only thing that changes is that under a Tory government the dirty stinking rich are slightly better off, and under a Labour government the dirty stinking scroungers are slightly better off!!
For the rest of us it will make no difference whatsoever.
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Dave
TS Founding Member
That certainly used to be the case and certainly the modern Tory party still don’t present themselves as far right wing as the GOP in America, but over the last 10 years the Tory party has moved quite further right, primarily because they have been infiltrated by UKIP and took advice from Lindon Crosby.
Also on the scrounges front, Labour had a sizeable fraud investigation department for benefit claimants, the Tory’s scrapped it when they took power as it suits their ends to have people defraud the system so they can get stories into the newspapers about benefit fraud whilst staying curiously silent on the far bigger cost to the country tax fraud and avoidance has. Get people angry about something and its easier to get rid of it, hence now underfunding the NHS and the repeated front pages in the Times and Mail about the “failing NHS”, get people down on the NHS, then slowest privatise it.
Eidderf
TS Member
I'm not sure it's fair to characterise everyone on benefits or disability or many of the other more vulnerable in our society as 'dirty stinking scroungers' just because some people may take advantage of a system (I'm guessing a very small percentage) A lot of 'scroungers' as you call them are on this money because they truely need it, I don't think the same could be said of the rich.
It's also weird to say the rest of it will make no difference since 21 million people are on benefits in the UK in some way (who you determine what benefits make you a scrounger out of those I don't know) as of 2021 which is almost a third of the population. Those people are the rest of us.
Compare that to the apparently 5% of the country who earn over 80k
shakey
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Wild Mouse - Blackpool - :(
The point i was trying to make is that a Labour government aren't going to wave a magic wand. Very little will change in terms of the lives of the majority of the population if there is a Labour government, very little indeed.
It fascinates me why there are so many very vocal Labour supporters who direct a lot of anger towards the Tory government and assume that a Labour government would transform their lives . It simply won't.
Most of the issues are being caused by the war in Ukraine with a sprinkling of Brexit thrown in (which more than half the country wanted).
However, I do believe a change in government once in a while is a good idea, it helps to anchor parties fairly close to the middle ground. And I think that time has probably come.
In terms of benefits, I must be very lucky then because I don't receive any (apart from the upcoming fuel allounce that everyone will get).
Even child benefit goes to my ex-wife, plus £300 a month of my hard earned cash. (But that's an entirely different debate !!)
My disposable income is rapidly approaching zero but I won't be getting any extra benefits from the government, whoever is in charge.
But my next door neighbour probably has benefits coming out of his ears... 4 kids, his wife doesn't work at all and he's probably on a lower wage than me. But he can still afford to smoke, own a 7 seat people carrier, a boy racer BMW and a motorbike.
I own a battered Hyundai i10 that's done 100,000 miles and I can't afford to replace .
Rant over.... and relax.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
It fascinates me why there are so many very vocal Labour supporters who direct a lot of anger towards the Tory government and assume that a Labour government would transform their lives . It simply won't.
Most of the issues are being caused by the war in Ukraine with a sprinkling of Brexit thrown in (which more than half the country wanted).
However, I do believe a change in government once in a while is a good idea, it helps to anchor parties fairly close to the middle ground. And I think that time has probably come.
In terms of benefits, I must be very lucky then because I don't receive any (apart from the upcoming fuel allounce that everyone will get).
Even child benefit goes to my ex-wife, plus £300 a month of my hard earned cash. (But that's an entirely different debate !!)
My disposable income is rapidly approaching zero but I won't be getting any extra benefits from the government, whoever is in charge.
But my next door neighbour probably has benefits coming out of his ears... 4 kids, his wife doesn't work at all and he's probably on a lower wage than me. But he can still afford to smoke, own a 7 seat people carrier, a boy racer BMW and a motorbike.
I own a battered Hyundai i10 that's done 100,000 miles and I can't afford to replace .
Rant over.... and relax.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Last edited:
MaxPower
TS Member
I can't remember my day to day life being that much better under a Labour government than under the Tories to be honest.
I don't like the Tories and realistically the only option is to vote Labour to get them out, but I can't see how people can be so confident Starmer and Co are the saviours the country need.
I guess we just have to hope they're slightly less crap than the Tories have been? I just don't know where they're going to find the money to pump into public services when the country is in so much debt already.
I don't like the Tories and realistically the only option is to vote Labour to get them out, but I can't see how people can be so confident Starmer and Co are the saviours the country need.
I guess we just have to hope they're slightly less crap than the Tories have been? I just don't know where they're going to find the money to pump into public services when the country is in so much debt already.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
I fully agree that many of the current issues aren't caused by the current government, and that a Labour government might not change certain things.
However, what a Labour government could do is spend money differently to our current government and introduce different taxation policies so that more money can be spent on things such as public services and financial help to those who need it most.
shakey
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Wild Mouse - Blackpool - :(
Yes, a new government will change taxation around a bit, give something with one hand and take it away with another. They will reorganise spending pots, but its probably not going to make much difference.
Contrary to what a lot of people believe, governments (whoever they are), don't try and p*ss people off deliberately. Ultimately they are trying to get re-elected and want to do the best for the country as a whole. But I do think they can become a bit complacent if they are in power too long.
So definitely time for a change.
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