The Great Squeeze: Cost of Living Crisis 2022

[WillPS]

I suppose you think the BBC are biased aswell ?

I didn't actually, until I saw Emily Maitlis's speech at that awards ceremony. It was a bit of an eye opener.

I don't think they are the conjourers of these narratives though ultimately, no. They do a fairly good job of pissing off both sides which tends to be a good sign too.

 

[Dave]

If the Tories only cared about the rich then only rich people would vote for them and seeing as the rich only make up a small percentage of the population, they would hardly get any votes. But they consistantly get the highest vote share.

Of course it's possible that most people are just stupid and vote for them despite it not being in their own interests.

As I have said, governments in general try to do their best for the country and try to get re-elected.

If you are a staunch labour supporter then you may have convinced yourself that the Tories are scum and stick blinkers on to cement that view. Just as staunch Tories probably have the same blinkered view of what they perceive as loony lefties !!

The reality is we have fairly moderate main stream parties who's decisions when in power generally make little difference to peoples lives. Outside influences out of government control are the big factors that affect people.

The main parties are far closer in their politics than they were 40 or 50 years ago.

I am happy for a change of government this time, I think it keeps all parties on their toes. But I am pretty sure that it ain't going to make much difference in reality.

I haven't voted for 25 years despite having a general interest in politics. If I believe that one party is clearly better than another then I may stick my cross somewhere but I haven't seen anything to make me want to do that for a long time.

EDIT : I am not going to give any thoughts on what are good and bad policies because I am not a politician. Taxation and spending is complicated and it isn't just a simple thing like let's tax big corporations, this doesn't necessarily work.

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I’m a staunch centre left supporter primarily. I don’t see Tory voters as scum, i don’t agree with them but I don’t dehumanise them.

As to why the Tory’s win a lot it’s multifaceted.

1) The biggest reason is the right of the vote is almost entirely sat with the Tories, with only a portion of centre right voting Lib-dem. The left of the vote splits Lib-dem, labour, green, SNP, Plaid etc.

2) Print media bias, there is no legal restriction on hegemony in print media. Of the mainstream newspapers only the guardian and the mirror lean left. The Mail, the Express, Telegraph, Times, Financial Times all back the Tories. The Metro is a bit more all over the place. As for TV news I think it’s more clear that the Tory party are trying to infiltrate after recent revelations, I think they level of success is evident but as yet not massive.

3) The Tory party when in power blame the poor situation on other people. Immigrants, Gays, People of colour, Trans people and above all else the EU. If George Orwell taught us anything it’s that to control a population just give them a common enemy to distract them.

 

[shakey]

I’m a staunch centre left supporter primarily. I don’t see Tory voters as scum, i don’t agree with them but I don’t dehumanise them.

As to why the Tory’s win a lot it’s multifaceted.

1) The biggest reason is the right of the vote is almost entirely sat with the Tories, with only a portion of centre right voting Lib-dem. The left of the vote splits Lib-dem, labour, green, SNP, Plaid etc.

2) Print media bias, there is no legal restriction on hegemony in print media. Of the mainstream newspapers only the guardian and the mirror lean left. The Mail, the Express, Telegraph, Times, Financial Times all back the Tories. The Metro is a bit more all over the place. As for TV news I think it’s more clear that the Tory party are trying to infiltrate after recent revelations, I think they level of success is evident but as yet not massive.

3) The Tory party when in power blame the poor situation on other people. Immigrants, Gays, People of colour, Trans people and above all else the EU. If George Orwell taught us anything it’s that to control a population just give them a common enemy to distract them.

If you are staunch anything then that means you are probably going to look for any evidence you can to cement your views , while ignoring any evidence to the contrary. I think we are all guilty of this to some degree though.

As to your points, lib Dems can pick up or lose votes to either of the main two parties. Greens hardly get anything and they all won't be left side votes anyway. SNP and Plaid don't stand in England but the Tories still win more often than they lose in England.

I agree that print media is biased but this has far less of a bearing these days as hardly anyone reads papers, and anyone who buys the mirror or the Daily mail has already made up their mind !!

Point 3 I cannot agree with. Blaming gays , trans and people of colour for the state of the country ? I know Boris has been guilty of a few bad comments but are you saying that this helps the Tories win an election? If anything I would say that if would lose more Tory votes than it gains.
The anti immigration stance does probably sit well with the average Tory voter though,.I would agree with that.

The main reason labour dont do better is that they are even worse at choosing leaders than the Tories. Corbyn was a tory dream !! Starmer isnt too bad but some of the shadow cabinet are shocking.

Having said that we are probably going to get Liz Truss as the next PM which is going to be excruciating!!

I may vote monster raving looney !!





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[Dave]

If you are staunch anything then that means you are probably going to look for any evidence you can to cement your views , while ignoring any evidence to the contrary. I think we are all guilty of this to some degree though.

As to your points, lib Dems can pick up or lose votes to either of the main two parties. Greens hardly get anything and they all won't be left side votes anyway. SNP and Plaid don't stand in England but the Tories still win more often than they lose in England.

I agree that print media is biased but this has far less of a bearing these days as hardly anyone reads papers, and anyone who buys the mirror or the Daily mail has already made up their mind !!

Point 3 I cannot agree with. Blaming gays , trans and people of colour for the state of the country ? I know Boris has been guilty of a few bad comments but are you saying that this helps the Tories win an election? If anything I would say that if would lose more Tory votes than it gains.

The main reason labour dont do better is that they are even worse at choosing leaders than the Tories. Corbyn was a tory dream !! Starmer isnt too bad but some of the shadow cabinet are shocking.

Having said that we are probably going to get Liz Truss as the next PM which is going to be excruciating!!

I may vote monster raving looney !!





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Being staunch anything doesn’t mean you haven’t come to that view through evidence. I’m a staunch believer in gravity also.

Your points about the vote pickup of parties would be true if we had PR but the Tory party won the last election with 43% of the popular vote yet got an 80 seat majority. Small adjustments in vote share at the seat level make huge impacts on the overall majority. Labours biggest problem was losing the Scottish seats to SNP, but if the left of the vote share voted tactically at the next election then the Tory’s would lose despite that, but the left do love a bit of infighting.

Corbyn was a bad pick, the shadow cabinet are a mixed back but then so are the cabinet.

As for blaming groups for failures. Today the crime rate is being blamed on police going on a pride March, yesterday it was the immigrants, I’m sure someone will then say the NHS is spending too much on trans people next week and every day we blame our trade and travel issues on France. Can you really say all that isn’t happening?

 

[Matt N]

One thing I would say about a Labour government is that I think Starmer and co may well have responded very differently to the current energy bills crisis to how the Conservatives are.

Starmer has revealed a fully costed plan to freeze energy bills in the event of a Labour government. This would be funded through a windfall tax on large corporations, and it would mean that the consumer pays no more while the energy companies receive loans to make up for the lost money. A number of our European neighbours have done this, and the policy is even supported by 75% of Tory voters.

The current government have very much resisted such measures.

I’m not saying that either approach is right or wrong (I do wonder of the long term financial consequences of simply freezing energy bills), but the two parties definitely differ in their views.

 

[shakey]

Being staunch anything doesn’t mean you haven’t come to that view through evidence. I’m a staunch believer in gravity also.

Your points about the vote pickup of parties would be true if we had PR but the Tory party won the last election with 43% of the popular vote yet got an 80 seat majority. Small adjustments in vote share at the seat level make huge impacts on the overall majority. Labours biggest problem was losing the Scottish seats to SNP, but if the left of the vote share voted tactically at the next election then the Tory’s would lose despite that, but the left do love a bit of infighting.

Corbyn was a bad pick, the shadow cabinet are a mixed back but then so are the cabinet.

As for blaming groups for failures. Today the crime rate is being blamed on police going on a pride March, yesterday it was the immigrants, I’m sure someone will then say the NHS is spending too much on trans people next week and every day we blame our trade and travel issues on France. Can you really say all that isn’t happening?

Gravity is essentially a scientific fact so not a very good analogy.

Have you got a link to crime rate being blamed on police at a pride march ? I cannot find anything. Or indeed immigrants being blamed yesterday ?

France are usually guilty of most things to be honest

When labour get into power they will also blame others for their shortcomings. It's what governments do. Usually starting by blaming the previous government. They all do it.



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[BigT]

Being staunch anything doesn’t mean you haven’t come to that view through evidence. I’m a staunch believer in gravity also.

Your points about the vote pickup of parties would be true if we had PR but the Tory party won the last election with 43% of the popular vote yet got an 80 seat majority. Small adjustments in vote share at the seat level make huge impacts on the overall majority. Labours biggest problem was losing the Scottish seats to SNP, but if the left of the vote share voted tactically at the next election then the Tory’s would lose despite that, but the left do love a bit of infighting.

Corbyn was a bad pick, the shadow cabinet are a mixed back but then so are the cabinet.

As for blaming groups for failures. Today the crime rate is being blamed on police going on a pride March, yesterday it was the immigrants, I’m sure someone will then say the NHS is spending too much on trans people next week and every day we blame our trade and travel issues on France. Can you really say all that isn’t happening?

If we are talking percentage against popular vote shall we talk SNP?
The Tories clearly won the last election whatever method you use rightly or wrongly.
PR is a crap system that just produces collation governments that get nothing done.

 

[WillPS]

If we are talking percentage against popular vote shall we talk SNP?
The Tories clearly won the last election whatever method you use rightly or wrongly.
PR is a crap system that just produces collation governments that get nothing done.

Few other than the SNP would argue that they are overrepresented in Westminster as a result of FPTP.

What's your source for PR leading to governments that get nothing done, please? AIUI Eire have PR, don't always have coalitions and either way get plenty done; even sweeping cultural and constitutional reforms weakening the grip of the Catholic church over everyday life.

Also the Holyrood and the Senedd use a form of PR and have never been accused of getting nothing done as I understand it.

 

[rob666]

Not heard any Tories blame "people of colour", gays or transgender people for anything in recent years.
Not once. They have all been trained to hide their true feelings on such matters...that is what makes political correctness so horrible, true feelings are hidden, the hatred is still there, just unspoken.
I'm not saying they like such people of course...but blaming them...for what exactly?

 

[Benzin]

Not heard any Tories blame "people of colour", gays or transgender people for anything in recent years.
Not once. They have all been trained to hide their true feelings on such matters...that is what makes political correctness so horrible, true feelings are hidden, the hatred is still there, just unspoken.
I'm not saying they like such people of course...but blaming them...for what exactly?

It's something that's happening worldwide really. A lot of right wingers saying that trans persons are pedophiles, attacking the drag queen reading to kids event that happened recently, Hungary pushing through a more "masculine" approach to schooling are a few examples off the top of my head.

There's always a scapegoat for the problems at hand. Why are the NHS waits so long? Immigrants jumping the queue. Pushing ideas that there are "no-go" areas for white people across the country in predominantly immigrant populaces. The LGBTQ+ community are indoctrinating children and taking us further from a "traditional" lifestyle.

Also, I've since realised that political correctness nowadays tends to just ignore that opinions have since moved on and things that were acceptable just aren't. But some people just cannot seem to handle it for some reason? Those are the sort of people who tend to cry "my freedom of speech" when being called out for saying something inherently racist/homophobic/etc.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. And quite frankly if your opinion is that "trans women aren't women" as an example then it's better for everyone that the opinion is kept in a place where it has no oxygen to survive.

Unfortunately though we know that is not the case. As the Internet and social media as a whole has allowed people to form their little opinion bubbles as it were, but also give a sense of immortality over what they say. "Oh surely it doesn't matter if I send death threats and make racial slurs at this footballer for missing a penalty" they think to themselves.

Stoking culture wars and providing scapegoats allows certain demographics a sense that their problems are the fault of something tangible. It's why you get conspiracy theorists who think the governments are lizards in human suits or other woo woo nonsense. Distract the populace and profit from it.

 

[shakey]

Not heard any Tories blame "people of colour", gays or transgender people for anything in recent years.
Not once. They have all been trained to hide their true feelings on such matters...that is what makes political correctness so horrible, true feelings are hidden, the hatred is still there, just unspoken.
I'm not saying they like such people of course...but blaming them...for what exactly?

Ah, got it now.

Tories are all racist homophobic fascists who couldn't care less about the majority of the population and are intent on destroying the whole country.

Labour are all the salt of the earth, exemplary human beings who would give their right arm for anyone, cure homelessness and have the country fixed in no time.

My round in crevettes (don't tell Dave!)



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[Alsty]

Conservatives by definition are free market, low tax and small state. This isn't conducive for well funded public services.

 

[WillPS]

Ah, got it now.

Tories are all racist homophobic fascists who couldn't care less about the majority of the population and are intent on destroying the whole country.

Labour are all the salt of the earth, exemplary human beings who would give their right arm for anyone, cure homelessness and have the country fixed in no time.

My round in crevettes (don't tell Dave!)



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No, but the Tories will happily spam the scapegoat button to win votes rather than actually fix the underlying problems (which is in most cases a chronic lack of funding in public services).

 

[BigT]

Few other than the SNP would argue that they are overrepresented in Westminster as a result of FPTP.

What's your source for PR leading to governments that get nothing done, please? AIUI Eire have PR, don't always have coalitions and either way get plenty done; even sweeping cultural and constitutional reforms weakening the grip of the Catholic church over everyday life.

Also the Holyrood and the Senedd use a form of PR and have never been accused of getting nothing done as I understand it.

You can’t use some crackpot regional assemblies as examples of how PR works, they don’t control defence or any real tax and spending policy.
Look at Germany / Italy / France, it can take months to form a government as all of the parties want something to support a government.
If PR was brought to the UK at the last election you would of ended up with a coalition of Labour / SNP / Green and Libs, it would be a circus.
Also would hardly of been right that the party with the biggest vote share since 1979 didn’t get to form the government,
FPTP isn’t perfect but at least it brings in most cases a conclusive result and stable government.

 

[rob666]

Regional assemblies are crackpot.
Good to know, I thought they were all part of democracy, every day is a schoolday.
PR would bring in a circus.
Better a circus than the current complete farce.
First past the post can lead to false results and often does not represent the political desires of the majority.
But hey, you can't have it all.

 

[WillPS]

You can’t use some crackpot regional assemblies as examples of how PR works, they don’t control defence or any real tax and spending policy.
Look at Germany / Italy / France, it can take months to form a government as all of the parties want something to support a government.
If PR was brought to the UK at the last election you would of ended up with a coalition of Labour / SNP / Green and Libs, it would be a circus.
Also would hardly of been right that the party with the biggest vote share since 1979 didn’t get to form the government,
FPTP isn’t perfect but at least it brings in most cases a conclusive result and stable government.

The Dáil Éireann is not a 'crackpot regional assembly'. What's astounding about it being the 'biggest vote share since 19whatever' is that in that whole time there has been only 7 years with a minority/coalition government, despite the fact not a single one of those elections resulted in a popular vote majority.

 

[Alsty]

I'd rather a coalition that actually represents the makeup of the electorate having to work together to form policies than a government with 43% of the vote having carte blanche to impose what it wants on everyone.

 

[AstroDan]

I find it truly fascinating that this country is basically in its worst position of any point in the past 25 years yet people still seem to think Labour are a problem.

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[BigT]

But they don’t work together that’s the whole point and how is having a party with 3% of the popular vote near government anything like democratic?
It’s garbage talk just because you despise Tories and will think of any reason that they shouldn’t be in power.

 

[WillPS]

But they don’t work together that’s the whole point and how is having a party with 3% of the popular vote near government anything like democratic?
It’s garbage talk just because you despise Tories and will think of any reason that they shouldn’t be in power.

They don't work together because of the current system. Why would they, they have no need to.

And also - the one time in anyone's lifetime there has been a coalition they did work together, rather too well if anything! It's a good showcase for how much people are prepared to put party politics aside and the will of those who voted for them aside in the interests of a ministerial car or as Clegg put it "strong government in the national interest". A healthy compromise is possible, and the reality of coalitions elsewhere (including the 'crackpot regional assemblies' you so delicately cast off) is normally that the excesses of all partners are trimmed off according to their relative weight and common ground found in the middle.

The risk of not doing so is having to go back to the public - I love repeated general elections but the wider electorate don't and will likely judge those who failed to co-operate poorly.