AstroDan
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
Move to PR. That would solve your problem - then we'd have a fair representation of the views of country rather than the current shenanigans.
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
The Great Squeeze: Cost of Living Crisis 2022
- Thread starter AstroDan
- Start date
Move to PR. That would solve your problem - then we'd have a fair representation of the views of country rather than the current shenanigans.
Benzin
TS Member
85 countries (according to Wiki) use PR.
It hasn't stopped the likes of Bolsonaro be an absolute nutter but there's a number if countries that have it (like Finland and New Zealand) and they seem to do alright.
What's the difference in having whatever 3% party member in the current system anyway? They'll still be a MP and sit in on Parliament with FPTP or PR. The difference is that changing the system would probably led to government having to change with it.
Our current system has been proven to be antiquated by Johnson and his cronies. It relies on honesty and integrity, when neither of those exist and those in power realise they are untouchable, the system falls apart.
Modern world requires cooperation between everyone. It would also mean that the populace would believe their vote has far more importance to their own beliefs and views. Do I want to vote for Labour? Not necessarily, but at the moment voting for alternative left wing parties in Leeds doesn't do anything different. Tactical voting could easily be removed through it.
Funnily enough reading an article about the end of the €9 train tickets in Germany and you're saying PR based governments are too busy arguing to get results? They also lowered the fuel tax for 3 months (would need to compare it to Rishi's attempts to do the same, though whilst that has seemingly come to an end there's not a lot being done about the next crisis). I do notice that in an attempt to make his time seem good BJ has pushed forwards on Sizewell C. Not like that's been sat for ages doing nothing.
I couldn't imagine that seeing food banks opening in record numbers, openly lying and fabricating stories to the public, voting against free school meals, deporting people to Africa, sending covid positive elderly back into care homes, messing up the disability benefits, and no real position on the current energy cost crisis and think that the current situation is something to continue.
BigT
TS Member
It’s a pretty much known fact an outgoing PM will not bring through any meaningful legislation against the wishes of the party that removed them, neither would a caretaker PM.
It’s unfortunate that the leadership contest has taken so long and it should of been quicker but we are where we are, the new leader and PM will need to hit the ground running.
It’s pointless discussion around PR anyway, neither of the two main parties will vote for it as it will keep them both from governing on their own ever again.
It’s unfortunate that the leadership contest has taken so long and it should of been quicker but we are where we are, the new leader and PM will need to hit the ground running.
It’s pointless discussion around PR anyway, neither of the two main parties will vote for it as it will keep them both from governing on their own ever again.
It'd take a centre-left coalition as a result of a hung parliament to achieve it I think. Certainly neither party would campaign for it off their own back but Labour would likely go for any form of electoral reform if they were asked to as part of a coalition agreement.
It wasn't PR, but much of Labour including their leader at the time supported Alternative Vote during the 2011 referendum, even though officially the party didn't support either option. Tony Blair also comissioned a report from Lord Jenkins examining possible forms of proportional representation but didn't go through with it. I take from that there is a reluctant support there.
The Tories obviously wouldn't go for it because why would they, it'd essentially see their era of dominating control of Westminster finished.
Last edited:
BigT
TS Member
Do you mean like a Labour / SNP one? Certainly Labour won’t be able to get power without the SNP and the SNP aren’t going to vote for PR! That would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
No.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Sorry been busy so not had an opportunity to reply.
The recent report by the policy exchange think tank stated the police where too focused on whole issues and the Daily Mail plus other right wing press had a fit about some police at a pride event last week.
Right wing news trying to hide the funding cuts impact and blame it on wokeism to excuse the government.
PR forms governments representative of the vote, I don’t understand everyone’s fear of coalition governments. Germany has one and its functioning far better economically and socially than the UK.
Tories are not all fascists, and not all Labour supporters are good.
It’s fair to say the people who fund the Tory party do not have the broader populations welfare in mind and will resort to certain tropes of fascism to ensure they gain power.
If a party that got 3% of the vote got 50% of the representation in government then you would be right, if they got 3% of the representation or thereabouts then what’s the problem, their voice is no louder then their vote share.
The leadership contest has taken so long because Johnson made a pact with the 1922 committee so that he beat Theresa Mays length in office (he didn’t want to have the 2nd shortest priministership in history, he also wanted the various benefits of being PM during his never ending summer holiday.
SNP manage to win in Scotland with a version of PR. The SNP is nothing if not adaptable.
I suspect the Tories will get a bump in the polls but if they don’t make considerable progress in the next 2 years Labour could win an outright majority, or just need a confidence and supply arrangement with the LibDems. The electoral maths is a little different, particularly if the Tory’s continue swinging right and alienate the traditional rural light Tory voter that the LibDems are trying to lure.
That said I still think it unlikely that Labour will get an outright majority, but that more certainly makes PR happen as the greens and LD’s will insist on it.
Gravity is essentially a scientific fact so not a very good analogy.
Have you got a link to crime rate being blamed on police at a pride march ? I cannot find anything. Or indeed immigrants being blamed yesterday ?
France are usually guilty of most things to be honest
When labour get into power they will also blame others for their shortcomings. It's what governments do. Usually starting by blaming the previous government. They all do it.
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
The recent report by the policy exchange think tank stated the police where too focused on whole issues and the Daily Mail plus other right wing press had a fit about some police at a pride event last week.
Right wing news trying to hide the funding cuts impact and blame it on wokeism to excuse the government.
PR forms governments representative of the vote, I don’t understand everyone’s fear of coalition governments. Germany has one and its functioning far better economically and socially than the UK.
Tories are not all fascists, and not all Labour supporters are good.
It’s fair to say the people who fund the Tory party do not have the broader populations welfare in mind and will resort to certain tropes of fascism to ensure they gain power.
If a party that got 3% of the vote got 50% of the representation in government then you would be right, if they got 3% of the representation or thereabouts then what’s the problem, their voice is no louder then their vote share.
The leadership contest has taken so long because Johnson made a pact with the 1922 committee so that he beat Theresa Mays length in office (he didn’t want to have the 2nd shortest priministership in history, he also wanted the various benefits of being PM during his never ending summer holiday.
SNP manage to win in Scotland with a version of PR. The SNP is nothing if not adaptable.
I suspect the Tories will get a bump in the polls but if they don’t make considerable progress in the next 2 years Labour could win an outright majority, or just need a confidence and supply arrangement with the LibDems. The electoral maths is a little different, particularly if the Tory’s continue swinging right and alienate the traditional rural light Tory voter that the LibDems are trying to lure.
That said I still think it unlikely that Labour will get an outright majority, but that more certainly makes PR happen as the greens and LD’s will insist on it.
BigT
TS Member
The SNP won 48 seats with 4% of the popular vote, liberals won 11 with 11.5%, the SNP will not vote for PR at the UK parliament as they need as many seats as possible to push for Indy ref 2.
Clegg insisted on a vote to change the system as part of support for Cameron but lost the vote if I remember right.
I also suspect when it comes to the next election the result won’t be as defined as you expect and the Tories will still be the largest party, the biggest issue for Labour is it’s leader and his lack of a personality.
Anyway back on topic and it had been reported today the Euro zone inflation is now up to 9.1% and the Euro is still crashing against the dollar.
Clegg insisted on a vote to change the system as part of support for Cameron but lost the vote if I remember right.
I also suspect when it comes to the next election the result won’t be as defined as you expect and the Tories will still be the largest party, the biggest issue for Labour is it’s leader and his lack of a personality.
Anyway back on topic and it had been reported today the Euro zone inflation is now up to 9.1% and the Euro is still crashing against the dollar.
Dave
TS Founding Member
SNP don’t need their Westminster MP’s to get their referendum (they neither help nor hinder).
As for the next election as I said in my previous post I suspect the Tory’s will get a bump in the polls, I was merely pointing out that if they don’t get one and maintain it even YouGov which has been a great predictor of the last three elections is showing that they lose their majority and Labour potentially get an outright majority, they actually need a fairly big bump in the polls to maintain their majority at even half its current number.
But that is all conjecture at this point as who knows what will happen.
And as for the Euro as Dan points out it’s dropped because of its dependence on Russian gas but sterling has dropped harder (because we are starting from a poorer position as we are the only country in modern history to put trade sanctions on our self).
BigT
TS Member
Sterling has stayed pretty steady against the Euro between 1.15 and 1.19 for over a year now and hasn’t dropped much, today still trading at 1.15.
Against the Dollar yes Sterling has dropped and that’s why the US love a war, it strengthens the Dollar.
As for Bitcoin let’s not mention that.
Against the Dollar yes Sterling has dropped and that’s why the US love a war, it strengthens the Dollar.
As for Bitcoin let’s not mention that.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Sterling has stayed pretty steady against the Euro between 1.15 and 1.19 for over a year now and hasn’t dropped much, today still trading at 1.15.
Against the Dollar yes Sterling has dropped and that’s why the US love a war, it strengthens the Dollar.
As for Bitcoin let’s not mention that.
It’s dropped 3.5p in the last 30 days again the Euro.
I don’t know anything about bitcoin, that might as well be voodoo for me.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
In promising news, it is said that Liz Truss and her team are heavily considering the idea of freezing energy bills, with “a support package to rival furlough” reportedly being planned: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/truss-team-hold-talks-on-freezing-energy-bills-rlcq2t6c9
Truss’ plan is apparently to create an artificial price cap for consumers and then find alternative ways of reimbursing the energy companies. The plan is likely to equal the £69bn cost of furlough, and Truss has admitted that her total support package could go up to £100bn, but her and her team have apparently determined that something “bold” is the only solution.
This is similar to an idea previously suggested by Labour and previously adopted by many European countries.
It is thought that businesses will receive separate support.
I must say, I would feel a bit better about the whole situation if Truss did adopt Labour’s idea of freezing energy bills. I did notice that she repeatedly refused to rule out freezing energy bills on Laura Kuenssberg’s show yesterday…
Truss’ plan is apparently to create an artificial price cap for consumers and then find alternative ways of reimbursing the energy companies. The plan is likely to equal the £69bn cost of furlough, and Truss has admitted that her total support package could go up to £100bn, but her and her team have apparently determined that something “bold” is the only solution.
This is similar to an idea previously suggested by Labour and previously adopted by many European countries.
It is thought that businesses will receive separate support.
I must say, I would feel a bit better about the whole situation if Truss did adopt Labour’s idea of freezing energy bills. I did notice that she repeatedly refused to rule out freezing energy bills on Laura Kuenssberg’s show yesterday…
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
What do you mean?
When governments are preparing for a general election they typically gather support via 'giveaways' - in normal times all the unpopular tax hikes/benefits cuts/austerity are implemented towards the start of a parliament with the hope that will be embedded and accepted by the time of the next election. Then toward the end the politically popular tax cuts, masses of funding for health etc are all awarded so that will be fresh in the voters memory.
Truss will no doubt enjoy a little bump in polling in the next few weeks. Add to that a few billion which she can sell as avoiding a winter of armageddon etc, and there's a small window this Autumn for a general election on favourable-ish terms. Wait any longer, and for the worst-case of pipes running dry and rolling blackouts occurring and she could end up as the least popular Prime Minister ever.
Of course the same would still be true if she won an autumn election, but at least she'd then "have a mandate" and a 5 year term to bury the mess they've made.
She is the wind.Didn't Truss say there would be no handouts when she was campaigning?She changes direction like the wind.
A bad case of it.