The London 2012 Olympics - The Politics Discussion

[Martin]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

As always someone beats me to a link I wanted to share.

I'm still waiting to hear how The Event I'm Not Allowed To Name is going to benefit anyone but the corporate fatcat bigwigs who run the corporations that have destroyed the meaning of said event and bastardised it into some horrific capitalist nightmare.

 

[Islander]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

A fair few people around the world will enjoy a number of aspects of it - I'd say that's one benefit of it, and a rather big one at that...

 

[Martin]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

I hardly think watching Usain Bolt smash a world record or whatever is going to have any lasting benefit on the people being screwed by the Olympics, the IOC and the corporations.

 

[Sam]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Not wading into this debate, as I both agree with Meat Pie et al.'s criticisms of the privatisation, corporatism, cost and sponsorship, but I also think that beneath all that, it's still brilliant to have such a frankly awesome event taking place in the UK.

But just thought I'd post this!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDFMKjhLRw[/youtube]

 

[AstroDan]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Typical moaning Brits swarming around to criticize this, the most major sporting event in the world.

You can't win with some folk.

 

[Ted]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

I think having the Olympics in this country is a fantastic opportunity for Great Britain. I went to see the Torch relay at Selhurst park on Monday and turnout was great! It was a nice day and had a nice little atmosphere towards it. Seeing the torch was a once in a lifetime chance for me, so I couldn't miss it. Looking forward to the events from Friday, COME ON TEAM GB! ;D

 

[Moley]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Not wading into this debate, as I both agree with Meat Pie et al.'s criticisms of the privatisation, corporatism, cost and sponsorship, but I also think that beneath all that, it's still brilliant to have such a frankly awesome event taking place in the UK.

But just thought I'd post this!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDFMKjhLRw[/youtube]

Well hopefully that frankly brilliant video ends me having to explain myself whenever I reply "I HATE Sebastian Coe" whenever someone mentions his name.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Typical moaning Brits swarming around to criticize this, the most major sporting event in the world.

You can't win with some folk.

Oh sorry, this is the worlds most major sporting event? Well that changes everything. Now I see that it is completely justified to build a giant stadium for a one time event which will have no use or purpose after this summer, and throw more money then is sensible at a one time opening ceremony which serves purely to further inflate Britain's ego. Who cares about the ever increasing poverty and misery in the country, if the worlds most major sporting event is coming?!

You've convinced me with your amazingly well written and argued post. I am now all for this expensive one time summer competition which bares no real benefits to the anyone, especially the poorest in London who can't afford to see any of the sports despite being subjected to the increased traffic amongst many others nuisances to their daily lives.

After all this is the worlds most major sporting event and that means normal moral standards can be dropped to accommodate the worlds most major sporting event. I realise it was me and my worrying about the negative implications of the games that had the wrong priortises and not the the pro-sports at any cost lobby. Obviously sport is much more important then everything else.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

 

[Martin]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Well now it's here there's nothing I can do about it. I've said all I think I can about the whole farce surrounding the event, and instead I can now focus on moaning/laughing about us making a mess of the event itself and cringing at the marketing strategy symbol of togetherness and support that is this cringey 'Team GB' thing.

 

[AstroDan]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Typical moaning Brits swarming around to criticize this, the most major sporting event in the world.

You can't win with some folk.

Oh sorry, this is the worlds most major sporting event? Well that changes everything. Now I see that it is completely justified to build a giant stadium for a one time event which will have no use or purpose after this summer, and throw more money then is sensible at a one time opening ceremony which serves purely to further inflate Britain's ego. Who cares about the ever increasing poverty and misery in the country, if the worlds most major sporting event is coming?!

You've convinced me with your amazingly well written and argued post. I am now all for this expensive one time summer competition which bares no real benefits to the anyone, especially the poorest in London who can't afford to see any of the sports despite being subjected to the increased traffic amongst many others nuisances to their daily lives.

After all this is the worlds most major sporting event and that means normal moral standards can be dropped to accommodate the worlds most major sporting event. I realise it was me and my worrying about the negative implications of the games that had the wrong priortises and not the the pro-sports at any cost lobby. Obviously sport is much more important then everything else.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

Further inflate Britain's ego? Sorry, ermmm? This is a country which is probably less publicly patriotic than any other in Europe. I appreciate that we are in difficult times financially, but those times were not upon us when the games were won for London. So it's a difficult point to make.

If you don't like the Olympic Games, fair enough - go and crawl into a dark tunnel somewhere, but someone else would have had it - probably Paris if we hadn't.

Sport is pretty important. I have not seen unity and enjoyment in this country like I have seen in the past few months very much at all. I am a primary school teacher and the Olympics has given schools across the country a massive amount of content to do in the run up. We've learnt languages, done art linked to it, geography, held mini Olympic events, decorated the school, done work on multiculturalism, you name it!

My view is that some people are insistent to bash any sort of prestige event, because money could have been spent better elsewhere. The truth is money can always be spent on something else, no matter what it is spent on.

And Blaze - why is "team GB" cringeworthy? It's been that way at every Olympic Games in living memory?

 

[Martin]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Never so in your face and overt. It's cringey because it's not a 'team'. It's a group of individuals competing separately that just so happen to be from the same country. It's nothing but a marketing exercise to get people to buy GB Olympic branded tat in the name of patriotism and support.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

AstroDan- Britain has horrible egotistic patriotism. We like to pretend we're better then the Americans but scratch the surface and we're easily as bad as them. Just look at our obsession with our victory in World War 2.

And no, I will not 'go crawl into a dark tunnel somewhere', I will openly criticise it in the same way I openly criticise anything that I feel deserves criticism. It's free speech; if you don't like that you should 'go crawl into a dark tunnel somewhere'.

And please spare me the rubbish about sport being unifying. It's skin deep. But that is irrelevant anyway because unification and enjoyment is a miserable justification for the morally questionable act of hosting the games.

I'm not against funding cultural projects, but this is the most pointless and wasteful way of using money. Spending money on sport makes no sense, as sport is already very available to the public and funded by the private sector. The role of government in cultural spending is to fund projects which would be economically unviable in the private sector and projects which contribute something different and unique. The Olympics is neither of those things.

However, I think that at a time of significant cuts, if you are going to cut anything, the first thing would be cultural spending as projects like the Olympics are a completely unnecessary luxury, and a very short term luxury at that.

 

[AstroDan]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Horrible egotistic patriotism? Obsessed with the war?

Can you imagine the embarrasment if we had cut the Olympic Games? Some other country would have snapped it right up.

I think we need to agree to disagree...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[IanB]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

I'm not against funding cultural projects, but this is the most pointless and wasteful way of using money. Spending money on sport makes no sense, as sport is already very available to the public and funded by the private sector. The role of government in cultural spending is to fund projects which would be economically unviable in the private sector and projects which contribute something different and unique. The Olympics is neither of those things.

I completely disagree. London will not host the Olympics or Paralympics again in our life time. There is nothing more Unique than that. It certainly could not of been funded with private money alone.

It is a chance for us to engage the youth of this country to take up a sport, and try and tackle the growing obesity culture that we seem to have. If it inspires the youth of today to take up some form of sport as a result of watching these games then it has been a success. Grass root sports will get a boost, and that will have a knock on for generations to come.

The tourism, and investment from outside of Great Britain will have a knock on effect for the economy and that can only be positive.

Governments waste money left right and centre, but bringing something Iconic as the Olympics and Paralympics to London is not a waste, and can only be a good thing, and people should enjoy the games.

Ian

 

[Islander]

The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

It's cringey because it's not a 'team'. It's a group of individuals competing separately that just so happen to be from the same country. It's nothing but a marketing exercise to get people to buy GB Olympic branded tat in the name of patriotism and support.

Bollocks it is.

You're right that each individual athlete has their own competition, but there is plenty of team camaraderie, and a very definite group identity - there always has been, always will be. Don't forget, a large aspect of the games is the medal totals, and so in a way there is a team effort.

Also, having walked around the Athletes Village today, I can assure you that in no way, shape or form is this unique to Team GB - all the groups of athletes from different countries have this great sense of team togetherness (...and yes, I understand that's a dreadful term, but I'm too tired to think of a better one). It's really very inspiring!

It can certainly be debated that it's being 'cashed in' on more than in the past, but I think in part that's because it's our home turf, so people will care more. Also worth noting the example of BA, who are actively promoting that people don't use their services, and instead stay at home at support Team GB.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Astro Dan -Oh noes... We'd be embarrassed!

We should embarrassed... No that's not strong enough... We should be mortified that we live in a country that prioritises a showy sports event over the needs of our own citizens. That's shameful.

Let the other countries snap it up. Good riddance.

Anyway, I think you are wise, we're are not going to agree so best to leave it as it is.

------------------
IanB - The Oylmpics is not unique, that is simply untrue. All it does is bring together multiple sports events. That's not unique, that's like calling a film festival unique because it brought together multiple popular films into one place. And I didn't say the Olympics would be funded by private investment alone, but all the championships of the individual sports which make up the Olympic games get funded by private investment. The very notion of Olympics is a pointless as it is nothing more then a glorified medley of different sports.

Now, the next point you make about tackling obesity is about the only thing which I feel is good about the Olympics but that is completely undermined by the inappropriate sponsors. Anyway, let's say for the sake of the argument that sponsors were appropriate for the event, I don't think the massive costs or the other morally questionable issues surrounding the games justify the ends. There are many other efficient and less distasteful ways of tackling youth obesity then host a grand sporting event that most of those kids can't afford or get a chance to see.

Also, the tourism element is always way overblown. The only boost will be to the businesses surrounding games venues and there is little evidence to suggest the economy as a whole will benefit.

I entirely disagree with you Ian, bringing the Olympics to the country can only be a bad thing, and people should wake and smell the corruption and begin to question the event which was designed only to be accessible to those who can afford it, whilst leaving the poverty stricken nation with very little to celebrate. People shouldn't enjoy the games, they should be furious and if you believe the hype then I think you are gullible.

 

[John]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Are you against the idea of the games themselves or just the implementation/commercialisation?

I can see why someone might be against the latter, but as sporting events go the idea of the Olympics is tough to beat.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

I personally am not interested in the notion of the Olympics themselves but I'm not against them if others like it... but that's only in a time when standards in living are ever improving and the economy is stable.

At a time when it's unstable it's a stupid investment which has no long lasting benefit and is utterly pointless in terms of cultural spending. Sports are as popular as ever and well funded by the private sector. There is not deficit in sport but there is in the arts, so if you want to do something worthwhile with cultural spending, the Olympics is the least worthwhile investment.

So in short, I find the idea of the games themselves in our current situation to be distasteful, but I'm also against the way that they have been implemented. It's a rather salt in the wound situation for me.

 

[IanB]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Lets settle the first issue, as we agree it can not be funded by a private sector alone, and therefore only needs to meet the criteria of been Unique to be a event worthy of government funding.

What is Unique? Now I guess that is open to how you define what is Unique but there is three things I think that make something Unique, and I will discuss them below.

I would say something is Unique if there is only one. Well, there is only one event called the Olympics, so in that sense, it is Unique.

Something is Unique if there is no equal to it, so there is nothing considered the same. I would say the Olympics meets that criteria, if you ask people if winning a World Championship medal is the same as a Olympic medal, they would say the Olympic medal is more important.

Something is Unique if it is limited in occurrence, well, it only happens every 4 years, so I think again it meets the Criteria for being unique.

I therefore think the Olympics and Paralympics can be considered Unique, and therefore, along with the private sector of not been able to fund them, they are something, by your criteria, worth of Government Funding.

As for people not being able to afford it, when tickets are priced as low as £20, I think that makes it affordable. When people can view the Olympic Torch for free, I think that makes it affordable for people to feel involved. When the BBC is going to be broadcasting more of the Olympics than ever before, I think that is making it accessible to people.

There is a lot of British Sports People, who have spent the last 2 and a half years preparing for this, and I think their hard work, and effort deserves us, the public to get behind them, and cheer them on.

I think the time for protest and challenging the UK holding the Olympics has gone, and its now time to focus on cheering on the British athletes taking part.

Ian

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: The London 2012 Olympics Discussion

Your criteria of unique is utterly absurd. It's unique because it's called the Olympics? Really?

It's mere a collection of existing sports. Existing sports which already have their own championships/contests. That. is. not. unique.

The composite parts of the Olympic games are individually funded by private sector in there own respective championships, that makes the Olympics completely redundant and a pointless waste of public money.

If you consider £20 as throwaway, then that says a lot about the difference between those who can afford the tickets and the people I'm talking about. Anyway, moving on from that, we've paid for the games and therefore they should be given away as part of a free lottery system, with reserved spaces for the Londoners most effected by the games. That would be the only fair system of ticketing as the current system forces the taxpayer to pay twice if they dare to go see the games they paid to create.

As for letting People view that traffic disturbing Olympic Torch for free - Oh how generous.... : I think that's the very least they could do. It's no-where near enough though.

I think it's damn selfish that BBC programming is going to be replaced with back to back yawn worthy coverage of sports. Sure, it's great that those who want to access it can but it's inconsiderate that they are neglecting those who really couldn't give a damn if a man gets a ball through a hoop or in a goal or get past a finish line first. I think a separate channel should temporarily have been set up for the event.

I think British Sports People should have a better standard of morals and boycott the event but of course they won't as they're are so suckered into the false importance of winning a silly game that they will forget what really matters.

The time for protest and challenging anything is never over. That is a ridiculous thing to say. The athletes are unwitting traitors to their own people so no, I won't 'cheer them on'.