The Retrosquad: General Discussion

[WillPS]

I said this a year ago but having brightly coloured fairground rides at Alton Towers really isn’t a great look in my opinion.

I had hoped that their inclusion (and success) last year would have meant the addition of another flat ride this year but instead they’ve contracted them for another season except with one less which is the worst of both worlds really.

I’m still fairly confident that the fact they’ve included them again is suggestive that they accept that having more rides and more variation of rides in a theme park is generally a good thing (who knew?) and that it probably will lead to permanent flats in their place but It would be nice if they’d hurry up with it and avoid there being random garish fairground rides sitting around in themed areas of the park. The logical approach, for example would be to reopen the already themed, already (relatively) popular flat ride which has been sat in a disused building for 7 years rather than installing a purple lighted fairground ride directly opposite it in an area which is meant to be post apocalyptic but clearly Merlin disagree

Describing Nemesis Sub-terra as popular is probably a bit of a stretch to be honest.

How many staff did it require to run? How much work would be required to reactivate and recertify the ride (wasn't there a safety issue affecting all similar rides in dungeons etc.?)?

Pop those in to the old spreadsheet - it's a not inconsiderable amount of money for a ride which has already struggled to justify its existence and hasn't really been missed.

Don't get me wrong, I will be the first to agree that fair ground rides in what is supposed to be the country's premier theme park run by an operator who claims itself as 'second only to Disney' is a bad look - but the other option, leaving the plots completely vacant, is much worse (with or without Sub-terra, I don't see that it makes a great deal of difference honestly).

 

[s_g_k]

I think it’d be better if these rides didn’t have the 80s theming and the jarring sound tracks. Bon Jovi blasting out next to Thirteen? Ew.

It can’t be any more expensive to produce vinyls that match the themed areas in which they are placed, surely? The 80s soundtracks and gaudy vinyls make these rides stand out far more than they need to do, and I think that if they had vinyl graphics that matched the areas and no soundtrack at all, they’d receive far less criticism.

I loved Ripsaw as much as the next person but imagine it with 80s style vinyls and Madonna blasting out around it.

 

[Skyscraper]

I think it’d be better if these rides didn’t have the 80s theming and the jarring sound tracks. Bon Jovi blasting out next to Thirteen? Ew.

It can’t be any more expensive to produce vinyls that match the themed areas in which they are placed, surely? The 80s soundtracks and gaudy vinyls make these rides stand out far more than they need to do, and I think that if they had vinyl graphics that matched the areas and no soundtrack at all, they’d receive far less criticism.

I loved Ripsaw as much as the next person but imagine it with 80s style vinyls and Madonna blasting out around it.

Yes, but the rides themselves would still have their bright colour schemes and flashing lights.

 

[s_g_k]

Yes, but the rides themselves would still have their bright colour schemes and flashing lights.

True, but they’d at least look better than they did last year. They could even go as far as to change the coloured Perspex on the lights so that they’re either clear or match the area, so green for the dark forest for example.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Regarding Retro Squad, I was alright with them last year due to the circumstances and I might be just about tolerate them this season, however if they are back again for next season then that's not good enough from Towers' and Merlin's perspective unless they are planning for at least one permeant flat ride for next season which if this is the plan then fair enough.

Let's bring back Ripsaw this time in suspended form this time round while putting in new and updated versions of Blade and Enterprise in place for a Huss triple deal!

 

[Skyscraper]

Regarding Retro Squad, I was alright with them last year due to the circumstances and I might be just about tolerate them this season, however if they are back again for next season then that's not good enough from Towers' and Merlin's perspective unless they are planning for at least one permeant flat ride for next season which if this is the plan then fair enough.

Let's bring back Ripsaw this time in suspended form this time round while putting in new and updated versions of Blade and Enterprise in place for a Huss triple deal!

Yeah that's what I suspect they might be planning; Temporary flats again this season while permanent flats are planned, then permanent flats and N:ST replacement for 2023, in time for Nemmy's closure. Would make sense in my opinion. Yes they might not bring permanent flats to all the areas straight away, but Forbidden Valley is priority due to Nemmy as mentioned above.

 

[Josh555]

Describing Nemesis Sub-terra as popular is probably a bit of a stretch to be honest.

How many staff did it require to run? How much work would be required to reactivate and recertify the ride (wasn't there a safety issue affecting all similar rides in dungeons etc.?)?

Pop those in to the old spreadsheet - it's a not inconsiderable amount of money for a ride which has already struggled to justify its existence and hasn't really been missed.

Don't get me wrong, I will be the first to agree that fair ground rides in what is supposed to be the country's premier theme park run by an operator who claims itself as 'second only to Disney' is a bad look - but the other option, leaving the plots completely vacant, is much worse (with or without Sub-terra, I don't see that it makes a great deal of difference honestly).

I’m a fan of Sub Terra which is why I referenced it, but if they’re not going to reopen it, then do something with it.

You’re right in that having them there is better than nothing as much from a capacity perspective as much as anything else but that’s a bit like showing up for an exam you haven’t revised for and saying that what you’ve written is better than nothing. My point is that none of this is a surprise, Merlin have been gradually removing non-coaster attractions without replacing them and they’re now in the predictable position of having to draft in, let’s be honest, product harming substandard rides to (hopefully) navigate the period prior to installing attractions befitting of the location. It was entirely avoidable and is just so frustrating to see.

You say what you want (I don’t mean you specifically) about NST but it is at least a well themed attraction suitable for the area. There’s also nothing stopping them from using this period of downtime (as they will surely eventually do something with the building) on reviewing the ride and the procedure to make it something which is really popular and doesn’t require an unreasonable amount of staff to man it. It’s not like they have to reopen it exactly as it was, they could do whatever they wanted, resources would have been infinitely better allocated to an NST project than they have been for adding fairground rides to the park and whilst I appreciate that there will be a huge difference in financial outlay between those 2 options that really puts us back at the point as to why we’ve ended up in this position.

 

[Squiggs]

It can’t be any more expensive to produce vinyls that match the themed areas in which they are placed, surely? The 80s soundtracks and gaudy vinyls make these rides stand out far more than they need to do, and I think that if they had vinyl graphics that matched the areas and no soundtrack at all, they’d receive far less criticism.

If anything, I think vinyls that tried to match the area would actually look worse.

Broadly speaking, the vinyls slapped all over the resort these days look pretty awful, as the glossy/manufactured finish doesn't actually mesh well with much of the existing painted/crafted theming.

At least with Retro Squad they are not trying to pretend these rides fit with the surrounding areas. Vinyls pretty much scream 1980s, but not so much 'post-apocalyptic rust' or 'sinister overgrown carving'.

On a side note, they could really do with getting some skilled signage and thematic painters on staff, so they could create and maintain a slightly more professional look around the park.

 

[Matt.GC]

With 1 ride set to not return, I reckon they're weaning our expectations off of them and they'll be replaced by nothing next year. Tenner says in a couple of years time we'll have no retrosquad or permanent flats in their place.

 

[Squiggs]

It is worth remembering we don't actually know how many temporary rides we'll be seeing this year. Whilst the park have started revealing some info about the 2022 version of Retrosquad, they haven't officially announced anything yet, so we don't know if Mixtape might be replaced in the line-up, nor do we know what is happening with Flavio yet.

 

[jon81uk]

On a side note, they could really do with getting some skilled signage and thematic painters on staff, so they could create and maintain a slightly more professional look around the park.

I would say that Leek Signs are skilled and professional at what they do, it is just the type of signage they offer isn't always the best solution. As you say sometimes having a skilled painter is the better option. But in general I think they professional look of signage has improved over the last 10 years or so with Leek providing some consistancy.

 

[s_g_k]

With Mixtape allegedly not returning and assuming Roller Disco and Funk n Fly go in their previous places, would a junior coaster fit in the currently vacant flat ride site in X Sector? Obviously I’m not expecting this to appear for this season, but perhaps in a couple of years. X Sector had a thrill flat already, so just a thought really!

 

[Squiggs]

I would say that Leek Signs are skilled and professional at what they do, it is just the type of signage they offer isn't always the best solution. As you say sometimes having a skilled painter is the better option. But in general I think they professional look of signage has improved over the last 10 years or so with Leek providing some consistancy.

Oh, absolutely. Leek signs are brilliant at what they do, it's just that often it is not the best solution for the situation.

I think Dark Forest and Forbidden Valley are good examples, where vinyls and printed foam board stand out like a sore thumb due to the theme.

 

[Benjsh]

So much for being 'just for one season' eh guys? I hate to say I told you so.....

Fairground rides have no place at Towers. I'm sticking to my view from 2021. There are permanent Flat rides out there that aren't overly expensive to buy and build these days. There's literally no excuses for this. They are just cheap skates.

If you give Merlin an Inch they take a mile.

 

[Steve74]

So much for being 'just for one season' eh guys? I hate to say I told you so.....

Fairground rides have no place at Towers. I'm sticking to my view from 2021. There are permanent Flat rides out there that aren't overly expensive to buy and build these days. There's literally no excuses for this. They are just cheap skates.

If you give Merlin an Inch they take a mile.

I see your point, but installing flat rides is not just buying them. There's [potential] new staff costs (both operators and engineers - and we all know how hard it's been to employ staff lately), maintenance costs, running costs etc All have to be considered long term. Sure, Merlin can afford all that but as I said in a reply to Eye Coaster's video on this subject the other day - "I think they're just padding it out with the Retro Squad until they're able to budget for permanent flats properly. Maybe because of budgets adjustments (cuts?) due to Covid they had to choose between temporary flats for a couple of years + Nemesis retrack ready for it's 30th, or all out brand-new flat rides and no Nemesis retrack. If it was something like this they had to decide on, then I'm more than happy they've gone down the route they have!"

I may be over simplifying all this - after all I'm not a businessman nor am I in the theme park industry, but I'm sure the decision to have 3 or 4 temporary flats for a year or 3 was not taken lightly by Towers management.

 

[Danscott22]

I think them returning pretty much confirms that they were a success and they know they're needed - and they literally are just a filler until a permanent replacement. With Mixtape not coming back for example, maybe it's because there's going to a permanent replacement? Or maybe it's just not available I'm not sure.

 

[Steve74]

I think them returning pretty much confirms that they were a success and they know they're needed - and they literally are just a filler until a permanent replacement. With Mixtape not coming back for example, maybe it's because there's going to a permanent replacement? Or maybe it's just not available I'm not sure.

I would guess it's because it's not available and they're looking for a replacement maybe? If they are and it's a different ride to Mixtape perhaps it will take one of the other names seen on the console in the RetroSquad advert!

 

[Benjsh]

I see your point, but installing flat rides is not just buying them. There's [potential] new staff costs (both operators and engineers - and we all know how hard it's been to employ staff lately), maintenance costs, running costs etc All have to be considered long term. Sure, Merlin can afford all that but as I said in a reply to Eye Coaster's video on this subject the other day - "I think they're just padding it out with the Retro Squad until they're able to budget for permanent flats properly. Maybe because of budgets adjustments (cuts?) due to Covid they had to choose between temporary flats for a couple of years + Nemesis retrack ready for it's 30th, or all out brand-new flat rides and no Nemesis retrack. If it was something like this they had to decide on, then I'm more than happy they've gone down the route they have!"

I may be over simplifying all this - after all I'm not a businessman nor am I in the theme park industry, but I'm sure the decision to have 3 or 4 temporary flats for a year or 3 was not taken lightly by Towers management.

Drayton Manor have recently installed a Wave Swinger and have a Disco (more or less confirmed as track is on site) and possibly a Nebula coming soon too.

They are finding the budget to buy and operate these.

It's just a cop out getting fairground rides in at Towers. This is the country's premier Theme park and personally I think it's insulting they won't invest in actual permanent attractions.

 

[Skyscraper]

Now, I doubt everyone will be happy with this but I've heard a rumor that a travelling Miami Trip could be coming to Towers as part the Retrosquad, potentially replacing the Smashing Jump (Mixtape) in X Sector. Basically, this came from someone I know who has a friend who's a showman and operates a Miami Trip. They said that it could be going to Towers. Obviously take this with a large pinch of salt as it's just a rumor, but if true would surprise me because would it even fit on that spot? They are pretty wide rides. Also, which name out of the remaining ones on last year's reveal advert do we think could suit a Miami Trip if the rumour is true?

 

[WillPS]

Now, I doubt everyone will be happy with this but I've heard a rumor that a travelling Miami Trip could be coming to Towers as part the Retrosquad, potentially replacing the Smashing Jump (Mixtape) in X Sector. Basically, this came from someone I know who has a friend who's a showman and operates a Miami Trip. They said that it could be going to Towers. Obviously take this with a large pinch of salt as it's just a rumor, but if true would surprise me because would it even fit on that spot? They are pretty wide rides. Also, which name out of the remaining ones on last year's reveal advert do we think could suit a Miami Trip if the rumour is true?

Friend of an acquaintance... solid start.

Apart from anything, surely that plot is the wrong shape for a Miami?