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[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

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BTW I thought I should note that I don't actually hate Colossus barrel rolls. As a one off experience I find them quite bizarre (in an interesting way).

To cover the other point about Colossus I don’t think it was “just” a matter of Thorpe Park being cheap. If rather than having 5 barrel rolls they had used a few more loops ect. the ride would have run out of momentum long before the end. Barrel rolls are the most efficient inversion and because of their lack of height the ride can perform them even in low speed sections.

Dave said:
The inversion record isn't necessarily a bad thing, our experience of such a ride is Collosus where they just stuck a load of barrel rolls in a row and Ta'dah. If there is some creative thought into the layout then a multi-inverter can be as interesting as a hyper that just goes up and down alot.
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Agreed but the trouble is (as above) a ride can only be so long and as a result adding in another inversion normally results in taking something out which offered a different sensation.

It's my opinion that for most inverting coasters 4 is the happy number. By having upto 4 inversions you can place them at even intervals in the rides layout so that each one stands out without becoming repetitive. Most of the highest ranked coasters with inversions only have 2 or 3.

And yes this rule applies to Hyper/Giga Coasters too. While I haven't personally been on Shambhala most people that have seem to agree it is better than Silver Star because it has a mixture of airtime, speed hills and other things like that turn around and splashdown.

Obviously The Smiler could be an exception as it has two lift hills but the rumoured 14 is a ridiculously high number... something’s got to give.
 
It's not even the fact that the layout for Colossus is a bit uninspired, it was that the sensation of being inverted got a bit boring after the second corkscrew on it. I still like Colossus but it's not up there in my favourites.
 
Colossus' problem has nothing to do with the number of inversions just the rubbish trains.

If it was smoother and faster Colossus would be an outstanding coaster.
 
For me a 'washing machine' element would negatively affect my opinion of the rest of the ride, just like how I think Colossus' rolls slightly take the shine off its layout up until the penultimate bend. Factor in the likelihood of discomfort, technical gremlins, the lack of evidence for a framework being built for it and any number of other points we've discussed and I really can't see it happening.

Tim, you said a few pages back about ride manufacturers having expertise in particular aspects of coaster design, and that this makes certain companies a better choice for some types of ride than others. If Towers wanted a ride with an element like this, I don't see why they'd even consider Gerstlauer. So far as I'm aware they have no track record with much simpler trick track, and Takabisha's mid course antics (stop car > move car slowly to vertical lift > gingerly move car to holding brake) look painfully slow and cumbersome. They really wouldn't be the ideal choice for building a ride that can stop a four row train, do something unusual with it and then get it out of the way in a short space of time.
 
Cheese said:
Tim, you said a few pages back about ride manufacturers having expertise in particular aspects of coaster design, and that this makes certain companies a better choice for some types of ride than others. If Towers wanted a ride with an element like this, I don't see why they'd even consider Gerstlauer. So far as I'm aware they have no track record with much simpler trick track, and Takabisha's mid course antics (stop car > move car slowly to vertical lift > gingerly move car to holding brake) look painfully slow and cumbersome. They really wouldn't be the ideal choice for building a ride that can stop a four row train, do something unusual with it and then get it out of the way in a short space of time.
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Maybe Towers approached many different companies and told them here is the space, and we would like an interesting layout with multi inversions and maybe something special. Maybe Gerstlauer had the one plan that stuck out in the time frame they were given (thats if the rumours about the B&M on Airs car park was the original late cancelled SW7). They offered many inversions, an interesting layout and maybe the special part is the washing machine element? I'm not saying it is, but it is a possibility. And all that for around £18 million (including marketing) seems like a great ride.

On the subject of Takabisha, maybe the block sections is the reason why it stops the cars for a moment or two before the lift hill? Don't forget, they have multiple cars going around the track at the same time in quick succession. When moving the car slowly to the lift chain, it's maybe because its a smaller train than normal rides have and its going vertical so it needs to be slower to make sure it connects properly - also raising it into the vertical section needs to be slower because of the sharp incline of actually going vertical. Also dropping the cars off the lift hill and slowing them down is to add suspense before the beyond vertical drop, which it does nicely.

Also to me, the small footprint of SW7 screams Gerstlauer if you want a fun, thrilling rollercoaster that has to fit a compact footprint - which is just what Alton Towers wants.

Maybe Gerstlauer want to play with the big boys and really show what they are capable of. And I say - go for it Gerstlauer!
 
Eurofighters stop at the base of vertical climbs as they have a special catch car on the chain which the shuttle has to engage on. The kickers will feed the shuttle to the base of the chain and stop. The motor then starts moving the chain, and the catch car comes around and latches onto the shuttle to be lifted. I believe that's the only reason they have a breif wait, and that it's not required as part of the blocking system :)
 
^^It's that long pause before the vertical lifts on Eurofighters that makes me worry a little about the pacing on this ride. Since the pause would come in the middle of the ride it'd probably create a dead zone rather than create the usual tension.

The lift does enable the track length to double though, pause or not so I'll shutup. :p
 
Prometheus said:
^^It's that long pause before the vertical lifts on Eurofighters that makes me worry a little about the pacing on this ride. Since the pause would come in the middle of the ride it'd probably create a dead zone rather than create the usual tension.

The lift does enable the track length to double though, pause or not so I'll shutup. :p
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Hopefully they'll have something good lined up experience-wise for the "conversion zone" as it appears in the game screenshot.
 
I think keeping the pace is why the bunny-hops will be so important to maintain as they will offer guests that differing experience. Different inversions at differing paces offer different sensations as much as sticking a bunny hop or a turn does. Collosus has 4 different inversion types spread across 10 inversions so it becomes a bit repetative and the only "pacing" element is right after the first inversion.

We already know of 5 different ways they are inverting on The Smiler and if the plans are not accurate there could be more. Add 2 lift hills (hopefully with some multimedia theming) and the swooping turns and the bunny hops and you have quite a mixed bag of sensations to play with.

That said this WILL be an extreme ride and thats what Towers want as they have not built a proper thrill coaster of any substance in a long time.
 
The bunny hops are also in to reduce the forces on the rider. Too many high G-force elements in a row will cause riders to black out. It's why Nemesis has that second stall turn, as an high G turn would be brutal.

And also, those bunny hops give some air- which AT has very little of. The drops as well, especially the second on- I believe- look like they have plenty.
 
Just thought I would post this giving my thoughts on the trimmed track and the support structure.

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Did the second image on Nemesis94 accurate recreation of The Smiler but added trims on one of the airtime hills to show you that the pieces of tracks with trims on could be for the airtime hills. It's no where near perfect, but you get the idea. Also the trims are similar, but this is all that NoLimits gives trimming wise on the Gerstlauer Eurofighter model.

SW7AirtimeHillwithTrims_zpsa7ca2c70.png


This is how that piece of track would look on the airtime hill, if indeed it is for the airtime hill. Also if you look under the real track piece (look below) it has little mini supports coming off of it and I think the reason for this is because there will be an arc shape (bridge like) support system going in under it as it has to span the footpath below as can be seen on the recreation picture (above).

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So can we be 100% sure about the washing machine? I really don't want it. I think it would look and make you feel awful. I hope the secret element is something a bit more interesting. Not something to make your insides become outsides. :twirly:
 
From that angle you really appreciate how low in the pit the knot is, I wonder why it is so different to the plans, is the top still the same height as on the plans I wonder?
 
Good pictures! Again, concerning about the lack for track...

However, I think I spy a support in the far background, left to the centre track behind the furthest yellow crane.

Looks a bit too straight to be a tree.
 
The plans were most likely deliberately made to be inaccurate (height wise that is) but still show a basic view of how the ride will look and impact on the area and surrounding areas outside the park. Since the ride itself did not need any planning permission there was no need for them to show everything on the plans, hence why the knot is in a massive pit.
 
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