[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I also agree that I'd rather them delay it opening and open a fully complete experience when it does open than them open it on time and it only be half done a la Sub-Terra. But then again I would rather than open a fully complete experience on time, and that is really what they should be doing. The fact that this may not happen one way or another is poor, and down to poor planning.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Who knows, for all my criticism, dare I say had this been Air being built, the tunnel may have actually gotten finished eventually! ;D

Woah, woah, steady on now!

 

[GAGrathea]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Wilsy what's up dude?

I don't understand the slight animosity on an enthusiast website, towards those whom are concerned a ride that is lets face it, not potentially a few weeks late, but in real terms a few years late!

This ride is way overdue at Towers and everyone knows it. There is very little excuse apart from poor preparation if it is indeed late. The weather hasn't been anything like SW6 and it's absurd technical nature was up against.

Oblivion was the last proper serious thrill based SW. Air the last attempt at a thrill one, even that was over a decade ago.

Let's take the alternative, enthusiasts don't give a crud whether it opens in time or not ;D

Years overdue?! Not in the slightest! There was a deliberate move to family-thrill when designing Th13teen, to echo the ride which it replaced (the extent to which a certain former marketing director recognised the family element is another matter), and in the years previous to that the park had arguably one of its most 'thrilling' coasters installed... And this is all overlooking the fact that we can almost certainly be sure that the original SW7 wasn't even going to be a Gerstlauer in X Sector...so "years overdue" isn't even appropriate.

Something major has clearly happened which has caused the (comparatively minor) delay on this project, and I think it's admirable of park management to want it open as a complete and quality package rather than half-finished with bits not working

 

[Moley]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Hopefully when it comes to SW8 Merlin/Alton ensure that they get the cream of engineers, landscapers and project managers that message boards have to offer.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

If the ride isn't finished, especially a bolt and build kit like an Gerst, that will be pretty ridiculous - I don't honestly believe this will rely on the Theme as much as things like Sub-Terra (which I have not experienced, I hate drop towers of any size!), or the technical side like SW6.

The ride will be ready, will it be spick and span, with all props around? I doubt it now, but if this ride relies on props/theme to make it great then it isn't good enough to be an SW to begin with.

This should be a ride akin to Krake that they can open minus themed elements if necessary, and the GP will be none the wiser.

The ride experience of Saw, would still be Saw, whether or not it had the props and theme around it. The theme only lasts until you start the ride properly, at which point it is all about the ride experience itself.

If they are relying on theme too much with this ride, then not enough emphasis was placed on the hardware experience.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I remember reading the boards and the opinions on SW6, as well as the general consensus of the public which has been discussed only a couple of pages back here.

SW6 is technically remarkable, a fantastic achievement, however the last proper all out thrill SW was Oblivion in '98.

That cannot be argued with, and Alton has needed a proper all out thrill coaster for years. It's been discussed plenty on here and indeed TT. That's not an opinion I intend to defend as everyone knows it.

 

[GAGrathea]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

If the ride isn't finished, especially a bolt and build kit like an Gerst, that will be pretty ridiculous - I don't honestly believe this will rely on the Theme as much as things like Sub-Terra (which I have not experienced, I hate drop towers of any size!), or the technical side like SW6.

The ride will be ready, will it be spick and span, with all props around? I doubt it now, but if this ride relies on props/theme to make it great then it isn't good enough to be an SW to begin with.

This should be a ride akin to Krake that they can open minus themed elements if necessary, and the GP will be none the wiser.

The ride experience of Saw, would still be Saw, whether or not it had the props and theme around it. The theme only lasts until you start the ride properly, at which point it is all about the ride experience itself.

If they are relying on theme too much with this ride, then not enough emphasis was placed on the hardware experience.

You see I think this is where almost every theme park fan would disagree with you here...having theming is what'll differentiate this coaster from one at some standard attraction park: Nemesis would give the same thrills plonked on a car park somewhere, but there'd be nowhere near the atmosphere or the interaction. The Swarm would be nowhere near as good without the crashed plane wing. Etc.

I don't understand how you're criticising the Air tunnel one second, and now saying that theming isn't important.

Also, I somehow feel that installing the bloody high 'spider' thing is not something that'd be easy to do overnight once the season's started!

 

[Wilsy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Theming is going to be a part of the experience, it's not going to be a random car park coaster from America.

Saw would be a lot poorer without its theming, the theming is a huge part of the ride.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

If the ride isn't finished, especially a bolt and build kit like an Gerst, that will be pretty ridiculous - I don't honestly believe this will rely on the Theme as much as things like Sub-Terra (which I have not experienced, I hate drop towers of any size!), or the technical side like SW6.

The ride will be ready, will it be spick and span, with all props around? I doubt it now, but if this ride relies on props/theme to make it great then it isn't good enough to be an SW to begin with.

This should be a ride akin to Krake that they can open minus themed elements if necessary, and the GP will be none the wiser.

The ride experience of Saw, would still be Saw, whether or not it had the props and theme around it. The theme only lasts until you start the ride properly, at which point it is all about the ride experience itself.

If they are relying on theme too much with this ride, then not enough emphasis was placed on the hardware experience.

You what? That's an odd view on coasters. Personally I think SW7 will rely fairly heavily on the theme and/or theming for the full experience to take effect. And this is fantastic, so much better than just having a coaster like Rita plonked with nothing more than a station platform and an operators cabin.

It might not rely on the theming to make it great, we don't know that yet, but I'm sure it will be a lot better with the theming; just like all other coasters than have good theming. I can't believe someone is saying that they shouldn't be relying on theme, I thought we wanted more well themed coasters in the UK?

I remember reading the boards and the opinions on SW6, as well as the general consensus of the public which has been discussed only a couple of pages back here.

SW6 is technically remarkable, a fantastic achievement, however the last proper all out thrill SW was Oblivion in '98.

That cannot be argued with, and Alton has needed a proper all out thrill coaster for years. It's been discussed plenty on here and indeed TT. That's not an opinion I intend to defend as everyone knows it.

Yes. But Rita was still an out and out thrill coaster and opened in 2005. Some people, especially a lot of the public, would go as far as saying it is the most thrilling ride in the park. In reality the SW tag means nothing, I think they just brought it back for Thirteen to generate some more hype and have carried on with it.

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I really don't get how a Roller Coaster can open half-finished. They would open it with out the themeing as long as the track is down, which I'm still positive it WILL be. I mean, I think the themeing and everything will be done and it'd be nicer and more of an experience and an atmosphere. But I agree with The Man.. To the GP it won't matter, the ride is the show.. The themeing is just whether you have an ice cream during the interval, you'd like one, but It doesn't actually matter and that's not why you're there.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

OK let me be clear, if that spider is not in place, the ride isn't ready - that's an integral part of the attraction, I'm not saying it should open with a bare bottom!

If that isn't up, with the track, you cannot open it because it's intertwined with the ride itself. I agree with Nemesis too, but the landscaping makes that ride - the reality is, without a fibreglass alien you think the GP would be less intimidated by it?

The genius is the engineering and presentation around it, the fundamentals - take the alien away, ride still brilliant!

Stealth is my favourite ride pretty much, with pretty much no theming. Incidentally, that doesn't make me any less of a Theme Park enthusiast.

If I had to choose, between no ride, or a ride months late, for the sake of some fibreglass and some painted hardboard - or ride on time, minus some theme, but with great hardware - which is the debate that is taking place here, I choose the latter, no question.

This ride will be better for theme, and immersion of course - any idiot knows that, but to base if I want to ride new hardware or not as some bits of wood aren't tapped on yet and I know where I sit (on the ride, not at home complaining about it!).

I agree with one thing though, things like the shop/spider etc are not what I would class as elements that the ride can function without, it would impossible to put that thing up with a ride working for a start, and if they haven't even got what I class there as the fundamentals in place, that's shockingly bad preparation.

 

[Wilsy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I really don't get how a Roller Coaster can open half-finished. They would open it with out the themeing as long as the track is down, which I'm still positive it WILL be. I mean, I think the themeing and everything will be done and it'd be nicer and more of an experience and an atmosphere. But I agree with The Man.. To the GP it won't matter, the ride is the show.. The themeing is just whether you have an ice cream during the interval, you'd like one, but It doesn't actually matter and that's not why you're there.

I usually visit theme parks for the theme

 

[GAGrathea]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

To the GP it won't matter, the ride is the show.. The themeing is just whether you have an ice cream during the interval, you'd like one, but It doesn't actually matter and that's not why you're there.

Obviously most theme park visitors are nowhere near as analytical as enthusiasts...that's why we're here... but do you honestly think anyone riding Saw would come off it with an equally good opinion if the indoor section and the blade theming on the drop didn't exist?

To go more extreme, as a fellow Team member just said, would Space Mountain be just as good if it was outside on the concrete next to it?

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I usually visit theme parks for the theme

You might, but the GP who bring in most of the money for Alton don't.. they go to get thrilled.. and they would be a bit annoyed if they found out they couldn't ride the new roller coaster just because a bit of themeing wasn't up, especially as most of these people only visit once a year.

Obviously most theme park visitors are nowhere near as analytical as enthusiasts...that's why we're here... but do you honestly think anyone riding Saw would come off it with an equally good opinion if the indoor section and the blade theming on the drop didn't exist?

To go more extreme, as a fellow Team member just said, would Space Mountain be just as good if it was outside on the concrete next to it?

I wouldn't know about saw, I've never been to Thorpe... And, I think just as many people would people would ride Space Mountain, after all they wouldn't ever have experienced it inside... So that's the only way they or anyone would ever have experienced the ride.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

There is a difference though between Theme additions, and the fundamentals of the ride.

Who notices those blades as you go over that drop apart from enthusiasts and people who aren't on it? I've not ridden with anyone, whom by the time you start that vertical climb and over vertical drop even remotely notice them. In fact I make a point of asking every time.

The theme is intimidating, but once you go up that vertical hill for the first time, or even not, the last thing you are thinking about is the theme because the hardware is intimidating enough by itself.

Would you go for a ride around a test track in a Lamborghini and pay attention to the scenery you are tearing past lol? The hardware is not good enough, if you notice the theme detailing on the way.

Creating an atmosphere, and intensity in the queue, and building your adrenaline I admit yes certainly, even the manner in which you pass scenery/theme too I agree - but they should be able to get this done to a level which is acceptable to open at, rather than fully completed, which is the point I am making.

At no point did I suggest, it should open with no theme, I am however saying that this SW should not rely on theming/novelty etc to provide a thrilling ride. That was SW6's job, and one it does very well.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I really don't get how a Roller Coaster can open half-finished. They would open it with out the themeing as long as the track is down, which I'm still positive it WILL be. I mean, I think the themeing and everything will be done and it'd be nicer and more of an experience and an atmosphere. But I agree with The Man.. To the GP it won't matter, the ride is the show.. The themeing is just whether you have an ice cream during the interval, you'd like one, but It doesn't actually matter and that's not why you're there.

Try making Disney believe that...

Theming in a theme park is essential. In my opinion not only does it need to be there, it needs to be of good quality. Why just plonk some ride hardware on a piece of land when you can theme it and make the ride a far far better experience? If theming didn't matter, theming wouldn't happen in the first place. Therefore theming matters.

I can't believe I'm actually having to say stuff like this on a forum of theme park enthusiasts!

 

[Wilsy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Theming is often a very subconcious thing.

People don't specifically visit a park because of the theming, but people visit because good theming looks professional and most importantly pretty. This is hugely important to families as they look for that sort of thing when they are finding places to visit.

If theme wasn't so important places like Alton Towers wouldn't be as popular as they are and more people would visit small unthemed seaside amusement parks.

There isn't a single ride at Alton Towers which isn't themed in some way, except maybe the SkyRide. If guests didn't care about theming, Alton Towers wouldn't have spent so much money on it.

 

[James]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

If that isn't up, with the track, you cannot open it because it's intertwined with the ride itself. I agree with Nemesis too, but the landscaping makes that ride - the reality is, without a fibreglass alien you think the GP would be less intimidated by it?

Nemesis would still be intimidating. Although it would not be as visually pleasing or immersive.

The general public do notice theming. Otherwise why do theme parks bother with theming? If the public didn't notice then what would be the point in spending money on creating theming?

While your point is valid TheMan, theming is all about immersion - and that's why people go to theme parks, they are visiting to immerse themselves in these lands that are like nothing else they have experienced, to escape from the real world and for a moment step into a new world.

Sure the core of the rides are always the same. Although without theming you are left with no experience. It defeats the object of a theme park.

 

[GAGrathea]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I wouldn't know about saw, I've never been to Thorpe... And, I think just as many people would people would ride Space Mountain, after all they wouldn't ever have experienced it inside... So that's the only way they or anyone would ever have experienced the ride.

But that's absolutely absurd logic... I'm sure just as many people would ride Nemesis if it was shorter, or slower, or made by Pinfari... That doesn't mean it's a good idea

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'm not saying "all themeing is rubbish... there's no point in it at all.. Burn it all, and save money you stupid parks" .. I'm just saying that Alton Towers would still open the ride if not all the themeing was done. The point was that the only way that this will not open on The 16th of March is if the track isn't done, which I'm positive it will be. Yes, there are essential things that need to be there, such as Spidey, but I think that'll be done during track construction. They wouldn't simply postpone opening due to lack of themeing, that is the point.

But that's absolutely absurd logic... I'm sure just as many people would ride Nemesis if it was shorter, or slower, or made by Pinfari... That doesn't mean it's a good idea

Did I ever say it was a good idea? I only stated that just as many people would ride it.