[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Tom]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

The more I think about this, the more I am getting a vibe of a return to the 'old ways' over this whole thing - particularly of course the ride it's going to be positioned next to.

I feel that they are taking a step back to the 90s approach in terms of secrecy, marketing and also with the type of ride they're going to build.

With Oblivion the marketing didn't start until February and even then it wasn't associated with Alton Towers in any way for the first couple of weeks.

I also think/hope that they are going for a more conventional record on this one - and it has to be conventional track inversions surely. No spinning technobabble or gimmicks, just 14 or so times the train is flipped over.

Maybe, just maybe they listened to us post Thirteen...We know for an absolute certainty that John Wardley was working on this ride, so maybe he is giving a little something back. You have to admit the design of some of the inversions is spectacular.

I hope I'm right and I'll try not to change my mind again...

 

[Ian]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

A lot of companies are using the concrete pipe stratergy for making footers these days. Even B&M! Have you seen The Swarms?

Are they? I am rather clueless when it comes to things like this but these looks bolted down to me?

I could be completely wrong mind and this could be how they are done or could be a combination of the two methods. Just thought I'd raise the question!

They are bolted down on The Swarm, yes. I was merely refering to the technique of using concrete pipes to cast the footers in with Swarm

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

A lot of companies are using the concrete pipe stratergy for making footers these days. Even B&M! Have you seen The Swarms?

Are they? I am rather clueless when it comes to things like this but these looks bolted down to me?

I could be completely wrong mind and this could be how they are done or could be a combination of the two methods. Just thought I'd raise the question!

They are bolted down on The Swarm, yes. I was merely refering to the technique of using concrete pipes to cast the footers in with Swarm

That's due to the water table at Thorpe.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2

 

[Moley]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Has anyone put forward the idea that Merlin are purposely slowing down construction so the ride opens a few weeks late in the hope they can get a compensation deal on another coaster from Gerst?

 

[josht]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Has anyone put forward the idea that Merlin are purposely slowing down construction so the ride opens a few weeks late in the hope they can get a compensation deal on another coaster from Gerst?

Personally thinking the next coaster is going to be a B & M wing rider

 

[Islander]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Has anyone put forward the idea that Merlin are purposely slowing down construction so the ride opens a few weeks late in the hope they can get a compensation deal on another coaster from Gerst?

Nope, mainly because there aren't likely to be any theories that are further from the truth (whatever that may be).

 

[Rupert]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Has anyone put forward the idea that Merlin are purposely slowing down construction so the ride opens a few weeks late in the hope they can get a compensation deal on another coaster from Gerst?

Nope, mainly because there aren't likely to be any theories that are further from the truth (whatever that may be).

I disagree - over the last few days this topic has been filled with completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours based entirely on baseless speculation, including classics such as:

I'd take a wild guess the secret element has been dropped - and they've had major problems with the roller coaster design, resulting in ground works having to be altered substantially and sections of the ride to be redesigned.

If someone working on the site sustained an injury which was reportable under H&S laws then that may have required some form of investigation by H&S which resulted in works coming to a halt for a time.

Maybe there is something wrong with the trains? If they are a new design, they could be causing problems for Gerst?

I don't think Moley's suggestion that Merlin are stalling to get a cheaper Gerst for one of their many parks is any less likely than some of the other ludicrous suggestions thrown around. I don't think it's at all likely either, but there have definitely been 'theories that are further from the truth'.

When there has been a late-planned coaster perhaps leading to logistics being sorted later than normal; extensive, deep groundworks with significant excavation on a slope in the second wettest winter on record; and a very long (for the UK) complex intertwining track to build including an indoor section beneath an elevated station - I don't see why people would deem it necessary to come up with bizarre conspiracy theories (such as a redesigned track layout and mysterious unreported injuries that require work to shut down) to explain the probable (but not actually confirmed) delay.



tl;dr - it's probably late because it's a complex project and it rained a lot, nothing more.

 

[Nick]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Thank you so much for that post Rupert- it perfectly sums up how I feel about this topic. There are much better things to discuss than random speculation about the project not being finished on time- yep, we know it's not, so people who said it a couple of weeks ago, please step off your high horses as we know that you're always right now.

Anyway, how about theming/ride experience/queue-line expectations etc. all much bigger than whether it'll finish on time (er, no) and wether theming good or not (I mean, it's a theme park, is this question even valid. So, yeah, mini sort of rant over, just some change over 10's of pages of the same rubbish would be nice, and would be better for non-members reading over the forums I think.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Thank you so much for that post Rupert- it perfectly sums up how I feel about this topic. There are much better things to discuss than random speculation about the project not being finished on time- yep, we know it's not, so people who said it a couple of weeks ago, please step off your high horses as we know that you're always right now.

Speak for yourself Nick.

I was in the "It will be done on time" camp, and despite my getting into some heated debating with some members about different aspects, I have seen very little "I told you so" or "high horse" like behaviour from anyone, who did actually know (or at worst, guess) better.

I disagree entirely, with the very half soaked attitude of some towards whether it gets done on time or not, they would not last long in any employ of mine that is for sure. It gets done, end of story! That doesn't mean to say, I am not enjoying the largely intelligent debate taking place on the issue. Their points are valid ones, I just don't agree with them. The same is said for the majority of other speculation - why it is late, how late will it be, has anything occurred that has a drastic effect on the rides opening.

The only type of debate, I cannot abide, is that from people who take time to post, to suggest others should not post or debate the issues? Irony clearly lost there of course!

I will read a 100 posts, of speculation, and intrigue over 1 post of "high horse" nonsense, trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't be interested in!

SW7 will come along but once, with all it's folly, ludicrous speculation, crazy ideas, passion, and debate. It is not like people don't post other ideas, updates etc, and when a decent one rises, it inevitably gets the full attention of those following this subject!

Until that time, it is natural for it to take on an almost conversational approach, and clearly judging by the amount of people posting and actively contributing to 10's of pages of "rubbish", as you so eloquently put it, they should be free to enjoy that debate as they see fit.

If you have not learned new things about coasters, like even I have after being an enthusiast for years, you are clearly not actually paying enough attention to the posts being made.

No offense intended, but it is up to no one person, to decide what people do or do not debate on this thread.

 

[Scott]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Discussion is organic - usually steered by whatever topic is currently important to the subject. At the moment it is the discussion over the timeline of the project. It may be dragged out, but there are many theories and opinions on it and there isn't a lot else to chat about right now!

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Has anyone put forward the idea that Merlin are purposely slowing down construction so the ride opens a few weeks late in the hope they can get a compensation deal on another coaster from Gerst?

Nope, mainly because there aren't likely to be any theories that are further from the truth (whatever that may be).

I disagree - over the last few days this topic has been filled with completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours based entirely on baseless speculation, including classics such as:

I'd take a wild guess the secret element has been dropped - and they've had major problems with the roller coaster design, resulting in ground works having to be altered substantially and sections of the ride to be redesigned.

If someone working on the site sustained an injury which was reportable under H&S laws then that may have required some form of investigation by H&S which resulted in works coming to a halt for a time.

Maybe there is something wrong with the trains? If they are a new design, they could be causing problems for Gerst?

I don't think Moley's suggestion that Merlin are stalling to get a cheaper Gerst for one of their many parks is any less likely than some of the other ludicrous suggestions thrown around. I don't think it's at all likely either, but there have definitely been 'theories that are further from the truth'.

When there has been a late-planned coaster perhaps leading to logistics being sorted later than normal; extensive, deep groundworks with significant excavation on a slope in the second wettest winter on record; and a very long (for the UK) complex intertwining track to build including an indoor section beneath an elevated station - I don't see why people would deem it necessary to come up with bizarre conspiracy theories (such as a redesigned track layout and mysterious unreported injuries that require work to shut down) to explain the probable (but not actually confirmed) delay.



tl;dr - it's probably late because it's a complex project and it rained a lot, nothing more.

Oh come on! All three of the reasons you've quoted are far more likely than Tower/Merlin deliberately delaying the project to get a future coaster on the cheap from Gerstlauer! I don't know what else to say about that without laughing, it's a far-fetched claim to be honest. To think that they would deliberately slow down progress on construction, that would never happen. And then to think Gerstlauer would agree to it being their own fault for the delay and agreeing to give a cheap coaster as compensation, I'm pretty sure that the people running Gerstlauer are not mugs.

As for the other reasons and why they are more likely. There's every reason to speculate over an element of the ride being dropped such as the secret element, there were rumours that there would be one and it is quite possible that technical difficulties mean it has been cut. And injury on site, far from a ludicrous or bizarre theory and something I'm sure happens quite a lot on construction site, and we all know how strict H&S is if things like this do happen so it could well cause a shut down. And problems with the trains, it's the least likely of the three I feel as I doubt it would cause an on site delay but it's far more likely than a deliberate slow down of construction.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Maybe someone got injured, redesigning the trains, because they don't fit the track anymore?

;D

Seriously though,

I disagree - over the last few days this topic has been filled with completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours based entirely on baseless speculation, including classics such as:

This made me laugh! It's hardly been filled with scaremongering lol!! It's been filled with people, concerned for Alton Towers and the ride, speculating with little else to do in regard to SW7, as to what may have created the delay.

A great deal of the last part of debate, was me VS a few others on how much the weather will affect it, and how serious they should take the planned opening time.

I thought there was a great amount of common sense, in those putting forward a case for the pit/ride seeming to veer from the original plans, suggesting a redesign possibly caused by geographical/soil issues etc. Given we have so little actual information, in general I feel the debate has been quite sensible, if quite passionate at times, in nature.

I might not agree with most (posting) people it seems, I have to say their points and concerns have been based on some quite sensible assumptions/guesswork/speculation, which is largely all that we all have at this moment.

Hardly "completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours", regardless of my disagreement with them lol!!

This place cracks me up sometimes, and that's coming from me of all people ha-ha!! ;D

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Seriously though,

I disagree - over the last few days this topic has been filled with completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours based entirely on baseless speculation, including classics such as:

Erm, that's not my quote!!

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Seriously though,

I disagree - over the last few days this topic has been filled with completely unsubstantiated, scaremongering rumours based entirely on baseless speculation, including classics such as:

Erm, that's not my quote!!

I know dude sorry! I have corrected now I think, it got confusing with so many quotes I didn't realise till it was posted up it quoted it as you lol!!

I think that's right now, apologies!

 

[Rupert]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Cheers for that Rob. Because you seemingly couldn't tell - I also thought Moley's suggestion was ludicrous, that's why I said:

I don't think it's at all likely.

I completely agree 'it's a far-fetched claim to be honest'; I just assumed all the reasons why were obvious enough without needing to be typed out.

My actual point was that a myriad of perfectly reasonable explanations for why this coaster could be delayed exist already (excessive groundworks; ridiculous weather; complex coaster and site) without the need for other conspiracy theories that have no logical base at all.

Of course the other theories can be made to sound plausible - that's why conspiracy theories exist - but it baffles me why one would jump to a conclusion that the layout's been radically overhauled or that someone's broken all their bones, when a simple, reasonable explanation exists with potential factors clearly visible (we can see the extensive groundworks, the crazy weather was documented).

What reason is there to assume the (supposed) secret element has gone wrong?
None.

What reason is there to assume that somebody has been injured badly enough to shut down construction?
None.

What reason is there to assume the trains have gone wrong?
None.


What reason is there to assume the coaster is (potentially) delayed because of groundworks taking longer than expected?
The excavations were significantly deeper than on the plans; and the 2nd wettest winter on record resulted in exceedingly difficult conditions (and if we believe that other comedy rumour, all the concrete was washed away).

Basically, Occam's Razor.

---

I have to say their points and concerns have been based on some quite sensible assumptions/guesswork/speculation, which is largely all that we all have at this moment.

Really?! I wouldn't have posted if I thought some of the points and concerns have been based on 'sensible assumptions/guesswork/speculation'. My point was that they didn't seem to be based on anything at all.

Please don't think I'm rubbishing every opinion in this topic - there have been many sensible posts. It's just a few theories I found quite bizarre and completely unfounded.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

We must be reading different Forums then Rupert, because despite my disagreements with most of the reasoning behind delays, I find it a vast stretch to refer to them as not sensible.

Secret Element being affected by something in construction resulting in differing plans? I don't believe this to be the most ambitious coaster ever, not even at Alton, but well within the realms of possibility.

Perched atop a hill, digging deep into a pit, hit with very bad weather - foundations are damaged, partially washed away? - Possible, despite my belief this should not affect it long term.

I've seen one or two, more out there ideas, but on the whole they mostly have a probability attached to them.

SW6 had huge technical issues, and still opened on time, because the team who builds them are generally very good at adapting, therefore to put this significantly behind (which is what these debates presume, or speculate upon), something unusual, or a combination of events must have happened!

SW6 - Technical, weather, secret element, REDESIGN of braking etc, all happened - still on time. So this will invite more complex combinations of theories, as to what may be awry now.

There will always be one or two, out there suggestions, but on the whole it's been very reasonable discussion in my opinion, whether I agree with them or not.

 

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

There's no reason to assume any of those things. I just took a wild guess, I have no evidence for wondering if the trains are the problem, nor do I actually think that's the reason. It was just something for people to discuss.

 

[Rupert]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

...well within the realms of possibility...

...Possible, despite my belief this should not affect it long term...

...on the whole they mostly have a probability attached to them...

OF COURSE!!! Of course all of the explanations are possible, I just don't get why you would go for the theory that has no base whatsoever over a theory that's logical and makes sense. There's no point me saying any more.

Dar - my apologies, I was just using it as an example.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Cheers for that Rob. Because you seemingly couldn't tell - I also thought Moley's suggestion was ludicrous, that's why I said:

I don't think it's at all likely.

I completely agree 'it's a far-fetched claim to be honest'; I just assumed all the reasons why were obvious enough without needing to be typed out.

My actual point was that a myriad of perfectly reasonable explanations for why this coaster could be delayed exist already (excessive groundworks; ridiculous weather; complex coaster and site) without the need for other conspiracy theories that have no logical base at all.

Of course the other theories can be made to sound plausible - that's why conspiracy theories exist - but it baffles me why one would jump to a conclusion that the layout's been radically overhauled or that someone's broken all their bones, when a simple, reasonable explanation exists with potential factors clearly visible (we can see the extensive groundworks, the crazy weather was documented).

What reason is there to assume the (supposed) secret element has gone wrong?
None.

What reason is there to assume that somebody has been injured badly enough to shut down construction?
None.

What reason is there to assume the trains have gone wrong?
None.


What reason is there to assume the coaster is (potentially) delayed because of groundworks taking longer than expected?
The excavations were significantly deeper than on the plans; and the 2nd wettest winter on record resulted in exceedingly difficult conditions (and if we believe that other comedy rumour, all the concrete was washed away).

Basically, Occam's Razor.

I know you thought that Moley's point was unlikely also, but you did say that it was just as likely as some of the other points which in my view is far-fetched, hence my post explaining the reasons for this.

Sure there's every chance that it is just the simple reason of the weather. And as I've said before I do indeed think the weather has set them back about 2 weeks. But if that was the only delay I think they would have been able to either get around it or catch up. I feel that something more unlikely has actually happened for such a major delay to have occurred. I have no idea what though, hence there is lots of speculation as to what it could be. It's almost certainly something that no-one has even mentioned, and we will never know for sure.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Exactly Rob, and as proven with SW6, there are lots of things that can happen to set development back, they got hit with most of them and still turned things around.

To me that must mean, it may well be as serious as a redesign, removal of an element (apart from Marketing changing the "tone" of their statement, there is little evidence of this though), ground problems - the weather to me, which most would use as "Occams Razor", is for me actually way to simple - that is based on giving the technicians and building teams more credit than getting done by some, all be it heavy at times, rain.

Rain, in winter. What? It's hardly rained for weeks, and the countdown timer has just gone, just. These things don't add up, no matter how you view it, to end up being the most simple explanation, because I have the faith that they could recover from that quite easily.

It will be so funny though, if they were never behind, and open on time! Regardless, till we can get on the darn ride, chatting about it's journey into being is about the best we have ;D