[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Why are people banging on about the weather, it's hardly rained for weeks now, the temperature has been pretty stable - "wettest 2012" - so what? The ride didn't start being constructed until pretty much the end of it!

Early on yes it may well have caused a delay, but are you telling me, that at the point it was raining (and, track my posts, I highlighted some issues they could be having with foundations) - they had no clue they were miles behind schedule? Not a chance, unless they are absurdly disorganised, and I'm sorry I don't believe a multi-million £ engineering firm like Gerst are that daft! Well, they are not that daft.

Something has to have happened, out of the ordinary here. The fact it is absolutely silent, and becoming seemingly worse by the day, suggests this might not be rectified yet either.

As for opening late. Yes, I want it open on time. A big organisation like Merlin, an experienced developer like Gerst, should be able to get this done and open. No excuses.

Now... are there reasons? A genuine reason, is not an excuse, and even if my faith in Merlin is not at its highest, I don't believe Gerst would want a damaged reputation on their supposedly biggest ever project.

They are either on time, or something here has gone awry - and I don't mean how heavy the rain was in August! (In fact make it June, as that was the month that threw the averages way out).

 

[rightbackgranty]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Why are people banging on about the weather, it's hardly rained for weeks now, the temperature has been pretty stable - "wettest 2012" - so what? The ride didn't start being constructed until pretty much the end of it!

Quoting the metoffice, since April (excluding May) rainfall in England has been consistently higher than average - ranging from 120% to 240% of normal rainfall levels. Whichever way you spin it, thats high rainfall. Factor in the ground saturation that set in sometime around June, it has meant that any rainfall has led to flooding. There was well publicised flooding through the summer and over Christmas - essentially the time construction and groundwork has been ongoing.

Regards them having "no idea they were miles behind schedule" - I'm sure they were sitting there thinking "christ, this isn't going to open on time" but what can they do other than hope the weather will turn and they can catch up? Even the might of Merlin can't change the weather

There may well be other reasons why they are so far behind - problems with manufacture, problems with foundations etc, but it is impossible to claim that the rain will have had no impact.

 

[CGM]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

If there is an issue aside from the rain, it might not be Gerstlauer or Alton that's entirely at fault. It could be an issue with the construction company or the surveyors for instance. A bad survey could cause a huge headache. It might be that the soil isn't of the composition that they expected or something like that.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

That's very true CGM.

And sorry Granty, I have read the weather figures in great detail and that's nonsense. The biggest issue was june, with was around 270% of rainfall. December had some bad points, but generally evened out, and the issues have come weeks after those big rainfall problems... in low lying areas.

Also, this is on top of a hill!

They could have been very unlucky, and had some bad weather coincide with trying to lay foundations, that will just wash them away, but that was weeks ago now, and as I say, I commented in more detail about that at the time. Since then, the weather has been exceptionally kind for a winter, and really the two sets of weather should have balanced out by now, when you consider the horrific conditions they had to contend with during SW6.

Also, we are British! If you forget to allow a reasonable contingency for some adverse weather for a couple of weeks, which is all it was, well goodness only knows what they were playing at.

I cannot believe this has anything to do with the weather, not now. Weeks ago? Yes. Now? Not a chance.

I just refuse to believe they are that rubbish to not account for that!

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'd take a wild guess the secret element has been dropped - and they've had major problems with the roller coaster design, resulting in ground works having to be altered substantially and sections of the ride to be redesigned.

I don't think there ever was a "Secret element" if you mean trick-track. The track was delivered when we expected it to be really so i don't think Gerst have delayed things. We expected track to start going up at the end of October but there seems to have been a 4 week delay after track arrived.

 

[Tim]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I didn't get the feeling that there were any major catastrophes during the build (so far). Construction seemed to be progressing as expected just very slowly. That's why I suspect it was a weather issue as it would have caused lots of small ongoing problem.

As for removing any special elements I'd hope they'd do a Vliegende Hollander and just open the ride next year. Opening a ride without its signature feature would be by far the worst mistake they could make as they'd forever be stuck with an incomplete ride. Think of it as the Air's Tunnel of coaster elements.

 

[BigDave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I find it funny that someone is trying to tell me it didn't rain near Alton and flooding wasn't an issue, when I live only 6miles away from the park and nearly every field around the park is still partly flooded!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I don't think there ever was a "Secret element" if you mean trick-track. The track was delivered when we expected it to be really so i don't think Gerst have delayed things. We expected track to start going up at the end of October but there seems to have been a 4 week delay after track arrived.

I agree Dave entirely, the way marketing has been less than decisive of world's first/beating etc suggests an ambiguity about how to put it forward to the public. There has never been a lack of excitement, or hype, at a true SW at Alton Towers, ever - and rightly so! They have been at the pinnacle of design and instillation. We either the have the world's most boring marketing manager, or there is very little special about this ride... except perhaps, the ride itself, if they've got the balance right.

The washing machine element, well, I viewed that for the first time the other day - I will say no more on that other than, if that's it, then please keep it secret from the coaster too! What would something like that bring, other than Gerst-ache and a pointless technical nightmare.

I also don't like the attitude it is fine if Alton are late. No it isn't! They are our premier park, the pride of this Countries industry, unless something has gone drastically wrong here in construction, and is impossible to get right, of course it should be on time!

They should take pride in getting it open properly, and on time, what kind of organisation doesn't?

 

[John]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think the weather is likely to be a major contributing factor - it would have made preparing the site much more difficult (especially as the site is on a hill) which would have a knock on effect on the rest of the build. I imagine they were hoping to be able to claw some time back weren't able to do so before the Gerstlauer team left for the Christmas break.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I find it funny that someone is trying to tell me it didn't rain near Alton and flooding wasn't an issue, when I live only 6miles away from the park and nearly every field around the park is still partly flooded!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

So Big Dave, what valley is SW7 in then. I didn't say, that it did not rain. We live in Britain, and it is winter. It rains a lot anyway.

So once again, there is someone saying something I didn't say, to try and dismiss my argument.

So let's make this clear, I did not say it did not rain. I said, it did not rain as badly, compared to other years, as people are making out based on an absolutely ludicrous summer of rainfall.

People are using the "wettest 2012", based on a ridiculously wet early summer. December had bad points, and again, as I have said multiple times now, I even commented at the time as to what issues this may cause in terms of washing foundations away or causing serious issues with any concrete structures.

By all means, debate my points, but please don't make stuff up, no one has said it didn't rain.

(Edited Spelling/SW Numbers lol)

 

[John]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think part of the problem is that the rain came at the wrong time. Rain in winter wouldn't normally be a massive issue in coaster construction as all the site preparation and concrete pouring should be finished by then. We had a lot of rain in summer when they were trying to prepare the site, and it repeatedly held up that stage of the build.

 

[Wilsy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Rain definitely affected construction on many days last year, it is certainly a factor in any potential delays.

I saw that pit flooded with little work being done for the whole day with my own eyes.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I also don't like the attitude it is fine if Alton are late. No it isn't! They are our premier park, the pride of this Countries industry, unless something has gone drastically wrong here in construction, and is impossible to get right, of course it should be on time!

They should take pride in getting it open properly, and on time, what kind of organisation doesn't?

Of course it's not fine that it's late, it is somewhat unacceptable for the UK's biggest theme park. However I think what most people are saying is that they would rather then wait a little longer and open a fully complete attraction than open something on time that is not finished. Of course what should be happening is the finished product opening on March 16th and clearly this isn't happening.

As for reasons, the weather certainly hasn't helped at all but I don't think it has been the main factor. I reckon the weather might have put them a couple of weeks behind. The hole became flooded very frequently and easily whenever it did rain during the open season and we can only assume the same has happened in the closes season. There has been so much rain this year, the ground is very saturated. Therefore any rainfall we do have is not able to fully infiltrate into the ground, and just becomes surface runoff and/or surface water (good old geography! ). With the site being on a hill also, this has definitely been a problem.

As I said though, I don't think the weather has been the major factor here as I think they would have coped if that's all it was. I feel something much more unexpected has happened. Now I'm actually with James here, I feel SW7 was initially going to have some sort of secret element. There were initially a lot of rumours regarding this and a lot of people (including those who are adamant it now won't have one) were certain it was going to. All of a sudden the rumours are all pointing towards no secret element. I'm thinking that they were developing something with Gerstlauer but encountered major problems with it meaning that it was not possible to implement it on SW7. I could be completely wrong but something like that would make so much sense.

If it's not that though then I really don't know what it could be. As I've said before I've heard rumours of TG Cruise not working as well as expected initially but that shouldn't have caused such a major delay and it may not be true anyway. Chances are we will never know the reason for the delay though, it will just be one of those things.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Rob, I find myself agreeing with pretty much your entire post, as it in many ways matches how I feel about the construction, and rather odd changing of tact in terms of how they market the ride.

Companies like Gerst and Merlin, don't muck about like that, no matter how many daft decisions Merlin can make sometimes. Their ride teams, are generally top quality in delivering what they set out to deliver, on time, no matter what set-backs. Their achievements against the technical issues of SW6 prove this beyond any doubt for me.

World first, to world beating, Countdown clock being removed weeks after the weather has returned to normal, construction going at a snails pace.

Though, as you so rightly say, we are not likely to hear what has happened, there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency anywhere. That sense of all hands on deck, let's get this baby finished motivation!

You get that feel with these exciting construction projects, it is part of the charm and wonder of following them in the first place.

Where is it?

I think there is something quite wrong about all this, and I hope they rectify whatever it is - I believe one thing, we will definitely know when they have, because it will begin absolutely rollicking along at monster pace like it should be now.

 

[cotda]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

The hardware should be in by march 16th, if so just label the first week as a preview week, give out some appointment cards and advertise the Full Experience for later on

 

[Wilsy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Depending on how close it is to being finished on opening day I think a Disney-esque soft opening phase would work really well, similar to what cotda has said.

It would be clearly advertised that the ride is open for testing and adjusting only and may close with no notice. They could use this phase to complete the final details (opening the ride late and closing early) whilst also taking on guest feedback to improve the attraction before the workmen all leave.

But obviously this would only be able to happen if the majority of the attraction was already complete.

 

[GaryH]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I recall when the initial concrete was poured there was speculation that the following rain meant it had to be redone again.... This may have been a reason. Secondly, while I hear what The Man is saying in that December didn't have that many days of rain.... When it did rain it came down heavy and saturated all the land. Maybe the land around the sw site became unstable and is still too saturated to lay any footers,.....

Only one way to find out... Someone has to stay in the Alton hotels, find a Gerst employee and get them drunk so they spill the beans on what is really going on!!

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Only one way to find out... Someone has to stay in the Alton hotels, find a Gerst employee and get them drunk so they spill the beans on what is really going on!!

Gary, I like it ha-ha, when shall I pick you up mate? ;D

I'll sign up whilst I'm there for the soft launch preview week too!! Yeah, I like theming, I love an immersive ride too, but boy is the hardware the most important thing to me!

You lot can wait for it to be painted and have some MDF tacked on - meantime, give me a go on the actual ride please, ta!

;D

 

[aru]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Whist I think the weather is a good call, I think there is also likely to be other related issues at play. I work in an industry where we build things that require specialist foundations. Pouring concrete does greatly depend on weather. If conflict is found in some way with ground conditions (compaction, stability) or the quality of the concrete or the pour is affected then delays will happen. ???

I imagine AT have been trying to find a 'window' of time to get this combination right. It seems like conditions have been better at the bottom of the site, perhaps because they have managed to 'cap' the ground with concrete, probably before the weather turned. The top of the hill might have different ground conditions that are still not suitable for pouring. Just a guess but it seems logical based on my experience. :-\

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Also, if what has been said here before is true, then Merlin decide budgets early in the year.

You know, for events like, I dunno, Scarefest, maybe?

The greatest chance of getting a decent end of season budget is having a fantastic opening and using all the skill, time, and workforce available to ensure a fantastic start to the season.

That means, getting appropriate backing in (if there have been issues, that are no-ones fault), and getting this installation back on time, open, and raking the cash in! If that was me running this park, and we'd hit unexpected obstacles, I'd be on that phone to Merlin HQ to make sure we were given what we needed, to make sure this opens up on time and then squeezing the pips out of it to make sure our end of season budget is tip top!

This year is an opportunity, that the Towers must capitalise on fully, this is the best chance for years they have had to do it. There is no competition, the family market is winning out, fewer people holiday abroad - and with this coaster, there is reason for every age bracket to want to attend!

This is not the year to faff around, open things late, and be half soaked or even be anything less than absolutely on top of their game.

Get great staff in (Jobs? Employers market right now for sure), it needed a new thrill ride, everything is in place. Merlin need to back the Towers now, to get this done, because a hugely successful Alton Towers year, is a hugely successful Merlin UK year too.

The most important year in a decade at Alton Towers. Get it right!