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[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation
- Thread starter Wilsy
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TheMan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- NemiLerVion
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
How had it reached it's conclusion, I've read another 2/3 pages since I last even commented, full of lively debate as even Alton Towers themselves have now waded into it!
A stale discussion will cease of it's own accord, by it's own definition. I read way to many times, people making judgement on when a conversation or thread has gone "stale" or ceased to be of relevance. Even now, there continues to be multiple discussions taking place - I find other peoples opinions interesting, and even if I don't, who am I to decide if an entire forum renders it stale or not based on my opinions?
No-one has a right to define that, as it is absolutely based on subjective opinions, aside for possibly admins etc, if they decide they wish to steer the direction.
This is not normal, run of the mill delays we are talking here - this is very unusual for a place like Alton, and even their statements render more questions than it answers - hence, a very interesting debate has actually expanded even further!
If I do lose interest, I will pose another question to enjoy other discussions, or simply leave the thread alone for a bit until something of interest to me comes along again.
I may be viewed as controversial at times here, some may say - but one thing I will not do, is tell people what they should and shouldn't discuss on a general discussion topic, and pass opinions on whether the entire forum should now view it as stale or not.
I have a far greater respect for peoples right to post what they wish, regardless of whether or not I necessarily agree, or even enjoy their discussion points.
NastyPasty said:
How had it reached it's conclusion, I've read another 2/3 pages since I last even commented, full of lively debate as even Alton Towers themselves have now waded into it!
A stale discussion will cease of it's own accord, by it's own definition. I read way to many times, people making judgement on when a conversation or thread has gone "stale" or ceased to be of relevance. Even now, there continues to be multiple discussions taking place - I find other peoples opinions interesting, and even if I don't, who am I to decide if an entire forum renders it stale or not based on my opinions?
No-one has a right to define that, as it is absolutely based on subjective opinions, aside for possibly admins etc, if they decide they wish to steer the direction.
This is not normal, run of the mill delays we are talking here - this is very unusual for a place like Alton, and even their statements render more questions than it answers - hence, a very interesting debate has actually expanded even further!
If I do lose interest, I will pose another question to enjoy other discussions, or simply leave the thread alone for a bit until something of interest to me comes along again.
I may be viewed as controversial at times here, some may say - but one thing I will not do, is tell people what they should and shouldn't discuss on a general discussion topic, and pass opinions on whether the entire forum should now view it as stale or not.
I have a far greater respect for peoples right to post what they wish, regardless of whether or not I necessarily agree, or even enjoy their discussion points.
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Ok - simple example - Hydro in Oakwood. Lapbars - girl manages to stand up and it catapulted head first out of the ride and dies. Now its fitted with OTSR's. Both are safe but the OTSR's stops people, especially over excited teenagers from trying to fool about on the ride. Happy?
Benzin said:
Ok - simple example - Hydro in Oakwood. Lapbars - girl manages to stand up and it catapulted head first out of the ride and dies. Now its fitted with OTSR's. Both are safe but the OTSR's stops people, especially over excited teenagers from trying to fool about on the ride. Happy?
Towers freak
TS Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I don't quite understand the Issue with the public and "Lap Bars" on coasters with inversions. Thunder looper inverted and had a standard lap bar that looked like it wouldn't keep you in and people still wanted to ride it. G-Force at Drayton inverts more than once and even drags you up one and that also has lap bars. People still queue up for it and ride it. If anything has the potential to put people off it would just the sight of the thing and the numerous inversions not the fact it has "lap bars". The teenage market (which the ride and marketing will be focused to) will ride almost anything especially if you put it as a challenge and they'll just do it to prove something to their mates.
If the ride does have OTSR's i'm sure it will be for technical reasons not because "lap Bars" might put people off riding.
I don't quite understand the Issue with the public and "Lap Bars" on coasters with inversions. Thunder looper inverted and had a standard lap bar that looked like it wouldn't keep you in and people still wanted to ride it. G-Force at Drayton inverts more than once and even drags you up one and that also has lap bars. People still queue up for it and ride it. If anything has the potential to put people off it would just the sight of the thing and the numerous inversions not the fact it has "lap bars". The teenage market (which the ride and marketing will be focused to) will ride almost anything especially if you put it as a challenge and they'll just do it to prove something to their mates.
If the ride does have OTSR's i'm sure it will be for technical reasons not because "lap Bars" might put people off riding.
CupCakeMonster
TS Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I know most people probably won't be thinking about this at the moment (And maybe won't care)... But I have just thought, how are they going to do the ORPs? Surely with 4 rows, the people in front would get in the way of the photo. It works on (is articulated the word?- I'll stay safe) trains like Nemmy and air etc.. because of the gap between the rows, but these won't have that. I know from experience that people can block the ones behind in 2 rows, so 4 rows could mean a lot of unhappy customers, and a lot less ORPs being bought than expected. Just a thought that it may have been overseen (throughput was probably, understandably the primary thought), but it would probably mean a much lower profit than expected, which could affect the park in the future.
And on the lap bars front, It's not like they'll be RMT lap bars, they'll be proper ones that can take inversions. I would love lap bars, it'd make it so much more fun. Plus, it'll look better on the ORPs (yes, ORPs again) for teenagers etc.. They can make it look like they were 'hardcore' or whatever...
NastyPasty said:
I know most people probably won't be thinking about this at the moment (And maybe won't care)... But I have just thought, how are they going to do the ORPs? Surely with 4 rows, the people in front would get in the way of the photo. It works on (is articulated the word?- I'll stay safe) trains like Nemmy and air etc.. because of the gap between the rows, but these won't have that. I know from experience that people can block the ones behind in 2 rows, so 4 rows could mean a lot of unhappy customers, and a lot less ORPs being bought than expected. Just a thought that it may have been overseen (throughput was probably, understandably the primary thought), but it would probably mean a much lower profit than expected, which could affect the park in the future.
And on the lap bars front, It's not like they'll be RMT lap bars, they'll be proper ones that can take inversions. I would love lap bars, it'd make it so much more fun. Plus, it'll look better on the ORPs (yes, ORPs again) for teenagers etc.. They can make it look like they were 'hardcore' or whatever...
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I agree - however I also remember John Wardley saying that the public perception of a wooden rollercoaster is that it is unsafe, and many wouldnt ride one for that reason. As stupid as it sounds, it could also be the case Alton opt for OSTR's because the perception from the public is that the ride is safer....
Personally, i'd rather have the lap bars.
I agree - however I also remember John Wardley saying that the public perception of a wooden rollercoaster is that it is unsafe, and many wouldnt ride one for that reason. As stupid as it sounds, it could also be the case Alton opt for OSTR's because the perception from the public is that the ride is safer....
Personally, i'd rather have the lap bars.
TheMan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- NemiLerVion
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Have to agree with Gary on this, I believe there are a few rides which could have lapbars, but don't for exactly that reason.
Now don't quote me on that, I don't have the ride knowledge, but I'm sure I recall the proper coaster brains on this forum discussing this more technically.
I'm pretty sure that if it is technically possible to use lapbars, which by the way, the new trend in lapbars tends to prove, I do believe it's up to the park if they opt for them or not.
How else can you explain the difference in Intamins for example? Stealth, Rita - OTSRs, the 400 odd ft Top Thrill Dragster monster - Lapbars lol?
There seems a precedent to suggest it is indeed down to what a park orders at points.
Have to agree with Gary on this, I believe there are a few rides which could have lapbars, but don't for exactly that reason.
Now don't quote me on that, I don't have the ride knowledge, but I'm sure I recall the proper coaster brains on this forum discussing this more technically.
I'm pretty sure that if it is technically possible to use lapbars, which by the way, the new trend in lapbars tends to prove, I do believe it's up to the park if they opt for them or not.
How else can you explain the difference in Intamins for example? Stealth, Rita - OTSRs, the 400 odd ft Top Thrill Dragster monster - Lapbars lol?
There seems a precedent to suggest it is indeed down to what a park orders at points.
Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I'd say that if the manufacturer offers the choice of lap bars or OTSRs then the final decision comes down to the park. However there will obviously be cases where the park gets no choice; if you get a B&M mega coaster you're getting lap bars, and if you're getting a B&M sit down coaster you're having OTSRs. Gerstlauer obviously now offer a choice though, I get the impression that they prefer the option of lap bars but they still do OTSRs so it is up to the park.
I'd say that if the manufacturer offers the choice of lap bars or OTSRs then the final decision comes down to the park. However there will obviously be cases where the park gets no choice; if you get a B&M mega coaster you're getting lap bars, and if you're getting a B&M sit down coaster you're having OTSRs. Gerstlauer obviously now offer a choice though, I get the impression that they prefer the option of lap bars but they still do OTSRs so it is up to the park.
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Lap bars all day long for me! Much more liberating than being 'locked' back in your seat!
I understand that some people mess about, but that would be a very small minority.
Just imagine all of those inversions with a lap bar... I'll start walking there now, I might be there by opening day (or even a bit early!)
Lap bars all day long for me! Much more liberating than being 'locked' back in your seat!
I understand that some people mess about, but that would be a very small minority.
Just imagine all of those inversions with a lap bar... I'll start walking there now, I might be there by opening day (or even a bit early!)
Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I seriously don't think anybody would be able to 'mess about' in the types of lap bar we are all suggesting here. I'd like to see anyone try and worm their way out of a harness that is holding you in tightly across your waist as opposed to just loosely keeping your legs in a car.
@Johno: A lap bar wouldn't allow much difference in movement in relation to the clearance window so I doubt that has a bearing on the decision.
I seriously don't think anybody would be able to 'mess about' in the types of lap bar we are all suggesting here. I'd like to see anyone try and worm their way out of a harness that is holding you in tightly across your waist as opposed to just loosely keeping your legs in a car.
@Johno: A lap bar wouldn't allow much difference in movement in relation to the clearance window so I doubt that has a bearing on the decision.
CupCakeMonster
TS Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Why would OSTRs and lapbars have different medical restrictions?
I'm on my new fangled telecommunications device! So if I spell anything wrong, I do apologise.
Why would OSTRs and lapbars have different medical restrictions?
I'm on my new fangled telecommunications device! So if I spell anything wrong, I do apologise.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Plus try doing that element with a standard OTSR and you'll smash straight into the shoulder section, that's far more painful than an ill designed lap bar.
) so you also need legs. For an OTSR I think there is some rule that you need at least 3 working limbs.
So as you can see the medical restrictions is the one point that lap bars do come off worse in. But I've yet to see a park chose between the two based on that alone.
I was just trying to show what lap bars can do. like I said before the X-Cars are not a very good design simply because they aren't ergonomic enough. these types of lap bars have come a long way since then in both design and material choice. Plus unless there is some secret element the ride probably won't be upside-down for the 10 seconds or so G-Force is.Tom said:Tim said:
That is all
Hence the comfort question. They're more like abdomen compressors than lap bars though.
Plus try doing that element with a standard OTSR and you'll smash straight into the shoulder section, that's far more painful than an ill designed lap bar.
Because they rely on you having different body parts. For a lap bar you need a lap (hence the nameCupCakeMonster said:
) so you also need legs. For an OTSR I think there is some rule that you need at least 3 working limbs.So as you can see the medical restrictions is the one point that lap bars do come off worse in. But I've yet to see a park chose between the two based on that alone.
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