[The Smiler] Train Speculation

[Benzin]

Or maybe Gerst stole the infamous Blue Fire OTSR/Lapbar combo...

Now THAT would be lovely...

 

[Rob]

I'll admit that in a few of the promotional images it does look like they could show lap bars. However it is far from clear or conclusive in these images. The main piece of promotional artwork for The Smiler clearly shows yellow OTSRs, I know they are B&M restraints but they wouldn't show them so clearly if they weren't what we are getting. I'm very confident of OTSRs, unfortunately!

Well the first one definitely does show lap bars; I don't know why they'd make a properly illustrated image with lap bars if that wasn't the restraint type they intended to have. OTSR on the other hand are the current industry standard for multi-looping ride so it's not out of the question for someone in marketing to use them in a promotion. The restraint type is a fairly minor detail that the general public probably won't even care about (as proved by other rides Merlin have marketed with the wrong restraints) so its possible marketing didn't even know till recently.

But I'll admit that isn't proof hence why I said fairly confident.

Also, as I've said before, showing OTSR's on a promotional image will immediately cause the GP to think of a "thrilling ride" as that's what everything in the UK has at the moment. If the promotional image explicitly showed lapbars, I'm not sure many people would assume that meant it will be a multi-looping white knuckle thriller; and first impressions are what will cause people to research further.

Yes that is true. But it does not make lap bars any more likely. There's the same chance that they promotional image shows OTSRs because they are the restraint type we are getting. There are two places where we can clearly see the full restrains, the main promotional image for The Smiler and the game. Both of these show OTSRs. I'm afraid to say that I think it is as simple as that.

We all want lap bars. When you want something in life you do tend to look out for anything that could mean it might happen, even if it is not a clear or obvious sign. I do think this is happening slightly with the whole lap bar thing. Yes a couple of the promos do show what could be lap bars, but they key word is could. None of the images are anything like conclusive. There has not been one image where you can see a full lap bar restraint. And on some of the images the bars don't seem fully closed. So if maybe they are not lap bars but for something else such as effects or just an additional handle?

 

[Alastair]

I'll admit that in a few of the promotional images it does look like they could show lap bars. However it is far from clear or conclusive in these images. The main piece of promotional artwork for The Smiler clearly shows yellow OTSRs, I know they are B&M restraints but they wouldn't show them so clearly if they weren't what we are getting. I'm very confident of OTSRs, unfortunately!

Well the first one definitely does show lap bars; I don't know why they'd make a properly illustrated image with lap bars if that wasn't the restraint type they intended to have. OTSR on the other hand are the current industry standard for multi-looping ride so it's not out of the question for someone in marketing to use them in a promotion. The restraint type is a fairly minor detail that the general public probably won't even care about (as proved by other rides Merlin have marketed with the wrong restraints) so its possible marketing didn't even know till recently.

But I'll admit that isn't proof hence why I said fairly confident.

Also, as I've said before, showing OTSR's on a promotional image will immediately cause the GP to think of a "thrilling ride" as that's what everything in the UK has at the moment. If the promotional image explicitly showed lapbars, I'm not sure many people would assume that meant it will be a multi-looping white knuckle thriller; and first impressions are what will cause people to research further.

Yes that is true. But it does not make lap bars any more likely. There's the same chance that they promotional image shows OTSRs because they are the restraint type we are getting. There are two places where we can clearly see the full restrains, the main promotional image for The Smiler and the game. Both of these show OTSRs. I'm afraid to say that I think it is as simple as that.

We all want lap bars. When you want something in life you do tend to look out for anything that could mean it might happen, even if it is not a clear or obvious sign. I do think this is happening slightly with the whole lap bar thing. Yes a couple of the promos do show what could be lap bars, but they key word is could. None of the images are anything like conclusive. There has not been one image where you can see a full lap bar restraint. And on some of the images the bars don't seem fully closed. So if maybe they are not lap bars but for something else such as effects or just an additional handle?

I agree, there's no conclusive proof that it's either yet. Using the game as evidence, though, is pointless because there's 5/6 (?) things in it that can't be unlocked until the ride opens in May - one of these things could very well be lapbars.

 

[Tim]

I'll admit that in a few of the promotional images it does look like they could show lap bars. However it is far from clear or conclusive in these images. The main piece of promotional artwork for The Smiler clearly shows yellow OTSRs, I know they are B&M restraints but they wouldn't show them so clearly if they weren't what we are getting. I'm very confident of OTSRs, unfortunately!

Well the first one definitely does show lap bars; I don't know why they'd make a properly illustrated image with lap bars if that wasn't the restraint type they intended to have. OTSR on the other hand are the current industry standard for multi-looping ride so it's not out of the question for someone in marketing to use them in a promotion. The restraint type is a fairly minor detail that the general public probably won't even care about (as proved by other rides Merlin have marketed with the wrong restraints) so its possible marketing didn't even know till recently.

But I'll admit that isn't proof hence why I said fairly confident.

Also, as I've said before, showing OTSR's on a promotional image will immediately cause the GP to think of a "thrilling ride" as that's what everything in the UK has at the moment. If the promotional image explicitly showed lapbars, I'm not sure many people would assume that meant it will be a multi-looping white knuckle thriller; and first impressions are what will cause people to research further.

Yes that is true. But it does not make lap bars any more likely. There's the same chance that they promotional image shows OTSRs because they are the restraint type we are getting. There are two places where we can clearly see the full restrains, the main promotional image for The Smiler and the game. Both of these show OTSRs. I'm afraid to say that I think it is as simple as that.

We all want lap bars. When you want something in life you do tend to look out for anything that could mean it might happen, even if it is not a clear or obvious sign. I do think this is happening slightly with the whole lap bar thing. Yes a couple of the promos do show what could be lap bars, but they key word is could. None of the images are anything like conclusive. There has not been one image where you can see a full lap bar restraint. And on some of the images the bars don't seem fully closed. So if maybe they are not lap bars but for something else such as effects or just an additional handle?

That's a fair point about the lap bar in that image potentially being something else although what I'm not sure and the lack of OTSR suggests it is).

And I'll admit there is a bit of wishful thinking behind it. Imagine how much of a game changer The Smiler will be if it has the most inversions on a coaster and does it with lap bars!

But as much as I'd personally like lap bars I wouldn't have mentioned them unless there was evidence to support them. My concern is that the most widely given reason for the ride not having lap bars was (and still sometimes is) that Merlin would play it safe in the same way they refuse to build a wooden coaster. but I think they deserve a bit more credit then that, especially as this is a decision the design team would have made not the marketers.

My opinion did change when that promotional image appeared with the OTSR and I conceded that this would probably be what we were getting. But seeing as a few pieces of marketing have appeared since then with lap bars I think there might well be a chance again.

As for the game, it's a game not an accurate recreation. More than that it's a piece of marketing material so anything on it should be taken with a pinch of salt. Who knows maybe one of those last unlocks are lap bars. Perhaps that is something the park want to keep secret... in which case I should probably shut up about them

 

[Alastair]

Here's the image from The Sun by the way, the one that Tim mentioned earlier that clearly shows lapbars:

 

[Tim]

Actually that wasn't the one I saw, that's a new one!

Edit: Oh wait it might be the same one but upside-down and zoomed in... not sure any more :S

 

[Trixico]

Here's the image from The Sun by the way, the one that Tim mentioned earlier that clearly shows lapbars:

Does anyone know what coaster they've used as a mock up for that image? I thought the only Euro Fighter with lap bars was SF's Dare Devil Dive, and that's got the ones that come over your head.

 

[Sheepie]

Could one of the additional upgrades to the game when you visit and scan is the additional inversions not already included and the revelation Of lap bars? Maybe wishful thinking but would be a great surprise.

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

God please let it be lap bars, the ride will just be insane with or without roughness...

 

[Tim]

Here's the image from The Sun by the way, the one that Tim mentioned earlier that clearly shows lapbars:

Does anyone know what coaster they've used as a mock up for that image? I thought the only Euro Fighter with lap bars was SF's Dare Devil Dive, and that's got the ones that come over your head.

There is also Iron Shark which has bars that come from the front but personally I think those are the real trains! It looks like that image was taken of the carriages with no one in them (hence why the restraints are wide open) and they've superimposed it onto a picture of the track. Here's the full image for reference:

Taken from TPR

As you can see the two pieces of track in the foreground look like the lead in and out of the Batwing with the track behind it general stock footage.

 

[Meat Pie]

So the only thing we have to go on in the lap-bar theory are those very obscure little images which is at such an angle it's actually impossible to tell if there aren't OTSRs or if that front component is indeed a lap-bar, compared to the full face promo image with OTSR and a game designed (although admittedly with some artistic license) showing the ride to have them?

I'm not saying it's impossible, or even totally improbable that there will be lap-bars, but to say that you think so based on anything other than a hunch is misleading since the evidence stacks up against that argument.

 

[Scott]

I think the fact the game uses OTSRs is probably a giveaway to the restraints that will be used. However, you can never be sure with Towers and the conflicting imagery may mean that they are trying to keep the final design secret for as long as possible.

Ruling out any track world firsts, I feel like the train might be where the secret is - hence why it is being kept so mysterious. The game was probably originally developed months ago anyway so it's possible that train modifications have happened since which weren't then re programmed into the game.

I think it's exciting that we have no real idea yet anyway!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[TheMan]

Meat give it up son lol!!

That is not the FIRST image to show lap bars, that is about the third or fourth now, all of which are with very bespoke trains.

A few of us discussed this weeks ago, when the first of a new set of images seemed to show lap bars with a strange looking device attached too it, and very Smiler-esque theme.

Let's put it this way our "luck" consisted of deducing something simple:

All the cars with OTSRs are very generic mock up trains, or on overly obvious early marketing - putting lap bars on the game will ruin the impact of getting into that station and going

"OH F***" if you are even remotely nervous. That may well have the biggest psychological impact of any of the rides so called marmalisation.

Also the game will have been a long time in development. You can't make those in five minutes. Also you have the unlock features, just exactly how many features are left to unlock - it's ridiculous really lol! What the heck else are they hiding that is so "secret" when they have made it obvious they are breaking the inversion record... though I am sure few people actually realise it.

Hidden in plain sight as they say.

Now - the more modern, recent marketing pictures very clearly show Lap Bars - it would absolutely stupid to show lap bars - and why bother for goodness sakes? It would be so much easier to have a mock up car without lap bars - and especially ones that are clearly themed to The Smiler (which is far easier to notice on the other cars).

I stand by this having lap bars, along with a couple of others simply going on the evidence we have to hand as it streams out.

As I say, I am not actually too fussed either way, so I am not going out to look for a conclusion to match my expectation which is what some have alluded too, my expectation of The Smiler became bashed when evidence of car washes came out - you didn't see my clinging on to "oh wow isn't this amazing" did you?

No. It is no different to Lap Bars/OTSR - they will be what they will be, I don't find Saw's to be overly uncomfortable and I like Boomers for goodness sakes, if comfort was a prerequisite for me, old Vekomas would not be up there with my favourite rides would they?

So you can sack that idea off.

Lap bars, based only upon the most likely conclusion, based on the most recently fabricated and released pictures - not pure luck, not simply a guess, and most certainly not finding a conclusion to fit the narrative!! Now that is something I find pretty offensive, not much offends me, but that does.

Really, do I seem that weak willed and psychologically inept to some of you ;D

Ha-ha!!

 

[GaryH]

Ruling out any track world firsts, I feel like the train might be where the secret is

Agree with you Scott. I believe also that the trains will include features never done before on a rollercoaster car. No reason why back prodders and leg ticklers couldnt work with a electric rechargable motor, or a motor which is charged by the car actually travelling along the track.

 

[TheMan]

Ruling out any track world firsts, I feel like the train might be where the secret is

Agree with you Scott. I believe also that the trains will include features never done before on a rollercoaster car. No reason why back prodders and leg ticklers couldnt work with a electric rechargable motor, or a motor which is charged by the car actually travelling along the track.

I wonder if they will have those things like on bumper cars ;D

 

[Meat Pie]

Oh come on TheMan... You are making yourself look really silly now. Unless I've missed something, there is no image that clearly shows lap-bars on smiler trains. None. Either you are blatantly lying which I find disappointing or you are using sketchy details from marketing images and making massive assumptions.

It makes me laugh that you can dismiss OTSR on the basis that it's only appeared in marketing, when your only reference point for lap-Bars is specific details within other bits of marketing.

So which is it, is marketing an untrustworthy source of evidence or is it legitimate? If it is legitimate then you cannot just cherry-pick the bits that you see as supporting your theory.

 

[TheMan]

Oh come on TheMan... You are making yourself look really silly now. Unless I've missed something, there is no image that clearly shows lap-bars on smiler trains. None. Either you are blatantly lying which I find disappointing or you are using sketchy details from marketing images and making massive assumptions.

It makes me laugh that you can dismiss OTSR on the basis that it's only appeared in marketing, when your only reference point for lap-Bars is specific details within other bits of marketing.

So which is it, is marketing an untrustworthy source of evidence or is it legitimate? If it is legitimate then you cannot just cherry-pick the bits that you see as supporting your theory.

*Chuckles* let's have at it my friend lol ;D

There is an image that very clearly shows lap bars and a lack of OTSR - although that isn't to say this restraint system is actually neither. It may be a blend or something new, after all this is a 18m quid Gerst, and they do like to develop tech as is clear and welcomed.

The point I made is, the only images with OTSR are early images of cobbled together coasters using obvious B&M restraints, and the game which will have been in production for quite some time.

A few weeks back, the very first obvious example of The Smiler themed cars came to light and quite obviously from the back seats had no OTSR as we know Gerst presently has.

Since then another two or three have come out in various bits of media, also showing what appear to be lap bars, but most certainly show the SAME cars from different angles...

Why?

Why show the same cars, with the most detailed theme, looking most like Gerst vehicles, as the latest images, from different angles?

Let's turn the tables shall we - you find me one RECENT picture, newer than the ones which appear to show lap bars, and certainly no obvious signs of OTSR, themed to The Smiler.

This will have lap bars, or a new kind of restraint system - which by the way, if they are going to have parts of the ride with back prodders (or top body interaction) etc, will allow more freedom of movement during the likely time to use it in show scenes.

It is simply a case of piecing the bits of the puzzle they are leaving everywhere.

If I am wrong so be it, the only thing that bugs me is that for some reason, people think I came into this specifically wanting lap bars and that is wrong. The theme I loved seems to have changed, therefore now my opinion of some of it has too.

It will be unique and interesting to have lap bars, but not to the degree I would create a subconscious yearning for them, leading to conclusion = narrative pmsl!

In my mind, there is more logical evidence for lap bars than OTSRs and we will find out soon enough who called it right and wrong based on who they viewed the press releases/promo images etc.

If I am wrong, hey no worries man, fair play it's still a fantastic bit of track - but my logic leads me to lap bars and there is where I will stay until something proves otherwise.

 

[Rob]

Just to go back to this image for a minute:

You really can't take it that seriously in my opinion. For starts the four cars of the train aren't even joined together. And if they are lap bars seen on it (notice the if there, it's still not conclusive) then they look rather open and far away from the riders. They could be lap bars, but they could equally be bars for something else.

I just can't see a coaster with the most inversions in the world having lap bars. I'd love it to but I don't see it at all.

---

On another note, I do like Ian's idea regarding the rainbow stairs. It would be good if they did do something like that after you've got off the ride and it would work really well in making everything fit together. They should have the space to do it as I'd imagine there will be a fair distance in getting from the station to the shop.

 

[DiogoJ42]

The image is clearly a bad photoshop job, as the wheels of the train aren't even touching the rails. However, it does clearly show lap bars... Open lap bars at that.

 

[TheMan]

Let's finish this off shall we?

Another image:

Notice little details, like the pivoting point on all the seats about mid way up - will it pivot? I don't know I'd not be so sure about that, technical mission that surely lol? Wouldn't put anything past this ride mind you.

Note, is it not the same image as above, is again a very recent official image, shows the cars from a completely different angle, shows zero signs of OTSR and yet they appear to support each other.

As for the cars being linked rather than a single 4x4 car - is anyone surprised given the tightness of those turns? I would not be remotely surprised to find they are separate linked cars.

I cannot take the older images seriously that contain mish mash bits of different rides, over these completely bespoke looking very clearly themed unusual cars.

Why, just why would you bother doing that? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I became convinced a while back, new images showing cars of a very similar design (the ones on The Sun almost look real, the ones I have re-posted here appear conceptual) - yet the main features are very unusual.