[The Smiler] Train Speculation

[Alastair]

There's actually more to suggest lapbars than not to be honest. Why would they design those particular kind of linked trains and then have them appear on a national newspaper advertisement as well as park posters if they didn't have some significance? The only thing that suggests OTSR is the 10 minute photoshop job that is the marketing poster - using standard restraints that they clearly took from a stock archive. That and the game that was clearly designed months ago, has already been proven to be incorrect in terms of the track layout and has several unlockable "secret" features that you can't view until May. Unless anyone has any ulterior information that they aren't sharing, I'm not sure how you could draw the conclusion that lapbars are very unlikely.

 

[TheMan]

There's actually more to suggest lapbars than not to be honest. Why would they design those particular kind of linked trains and then have them appear on a national newspaper advertisement as well as park posters if they didn't have some significance? The only thing that suggests OTSR is the 10 minute photoshop job that is the marketing poster - using standard restraints that they clearly took from a stock archive.

Exactly, I have no motive for believing it will be lap bars other than what the Towers are slowly releasing, also mate - I think we discussed this a while ago but:



Each car has one of those pivot points mid seat. Could this be an over the head lap restraint or something? Very peculiar. Again we find the return also of the strange wires at the backs of the seats - however, we most all suspect in ride prods, so that is quite likely for this element I imagine.

That lap restraint (if indeed it is) looks a bit light, but checking out Iron Shark, they seem to loosely tally to that system.

Cor this is going to be utterly mental if it is lap bars lol.

 

[Plastic Person]

Not too bothered either way, but I'm leaning towards lap bars now. As has been suggested, the early artwork are very much standard coaster draft images, where as the recent Sun and on-park images are almost too detailed to suggest otherwise.

 

[Meat Pie]

You can judge nothing from that picture. It's even worse than the other one. You cannot see that there are no OTSR, you are just inventing that. You cannot see if those bar elements are lap bars, and considering they are significantly far away from the riders, it would suggest they are not.

Also, it's a marketing image, with fecking floating Smiler logos on the back! How can you dismiss the older marketing image providing a full size image of car, and then accept this little detail off a promo which is clearly subject to artistic licence anyway!

As I said earlier, if you can rely on one minuscule detail from an artistically embellished promo image as evidence for your theory, then you cannot dismiss the large glaring OTSRs shown in other promos.

You are being completely unreasonable.

 

[cotda]

Maybe it's both like ripsaw?? xD

 

[LiamC]

Why can't we just leave it at, "it's going to have restraints..." and wait till May? This topic has become extremely tedious and stagnant of late. Everyone's just goes round in circles discussing the same things :/

 

[Rob]

Why can't we just leave it at, "it's going to have restraints..." and wait till May. This topic has become extremely tedious and stagnant of late. Everyone's just goes round in circles discussing the same things :/

I agree. I've had my say on the restraints now. And I don't think the two sides of the argument are going to agree any time soon! We'll find out soon enough what it has anyway, it's less than 2 weeks til the start of the season and I'd imagine that The Smiler will start testing not long after the track is completed. So I'd say we should know for sure within 4 weeks!

 

[Sammy]

Oh Hai there Wicked...

So nice of you to drop by!

This for me just proves they are not the actual trains... I hope it can settle this debate as it is just getting tiring!

Can I just say, I really don't think these are the final trains, and I do think they will have OSTR's! If they knew they were going to have lap bars, why bother do create one hell of an amazing mock up using several photoshops of Blivy's test seat!! It just doesn't really make sense to me!

 

[TheMan]

Why can't we just leave it at, "it's going to have restraints..." and wait till May. This topic has become extremely tedious and stagnant of late. Everyone's just goes round in circles discussing the same things :/

I agree. I've had my say on the restraints now. And I don't think the two sides of the argument are going to agree any time soon! We'll find out soon enough what it has anyway, it's less than 2 weeks til the start of the season and I'd imagine that The Smiler will start testing not long after the track is completed. So I'd say we should know for sure within 4 weeks!

I agree with you both, everyone knows why a few of us came to our conclusions, likewise those who believe it will OTSR. I understand both reasonings, all I am doing is explaining why I have come to the conclusion I have.

As everyone says, we will find out soon enough! Very obviously lap bars as far as I am concerned now, if they are not, I am very obviously wrong ha-ha!! ;D

:twirly:

EDIT:

Right, that image above does it for me.

 

[Tim]

Just to point out the image from the Sun looks nothing like Wicked.

I'd point out the reasons for this but I'd just be beating a dead horse. Neither side can claim to have solid evidence and it seems to just come down to opinion of the individual. Until we see the trains that’s not going to change (hence why I stopped posting earlier).

 

[Blizzard]

Personaly, I hope it will be OTSRs! I generaly feel a lot more comfortable in them, and like to hold on to the bertical bars either side. Lap bars for me don't have the feeling of security that OTSRs do, and I know it is the same for many other people.

Its all down to personal preference really. Some like the feeling of openess, while others like the feeling of security. The only compromise is to have OTSRs as people who prefer lap bars are happy to use over the shoulder restraints if lapbars are not implemented. However, people who prefer OTSRs find it a little out of their comfort zone with lap bars, so will not ride, non-enthusiasts inparticular.

So really, if the towers want something that the general public want to ride, it will have to be OTSRs. I like lap bars on hyper coasters and such as many others do, but inverting coasters with lapbars (escpecialy a record breaker) would be a step too far for the UK's market. People here aren't as in to coasters as americans are & only trust what they know. Its not worth the risk for the towers to use only lap bars. I see it very unlikely.

 

[Sam]

Both this image...

And this image...

...show 'lapbars' that clearly aren't actually in contact with the rider. See the front left-hand seat on the Sun's image, and the back-right seat on the Towers2Go image.

Of course, this could mean absolutely nothing (the Sun's coaster doesn't even have upstop wheels!) but it could also imply that these 'lapbars' are something else entirely. Merely a grab-bar for the rider, and not a restraint at all, possibly containing a Blue Fire-style heartbeat monitor or a video screen of some kind...?

 

[TheMan]

I think we are pretty much all agreed based on these images though that the cars are likely to be more like 4 x 4 trains, rather than a 16 seat single car?

Will this improve the ride dynamics? In my head it does as that back row may have a bit more whip to it, more akin to a normal train.

 

[GaryH]

Could it not be OTSR and a bar in front of you? (Sorry, that's gonna really screw up the argument now isn't it lol)

Just a thought though......

Edit..... Sorry, just noticed Cotda has already mentioned this idea! My bad

 

[James]

Could it not be OTSR and a bar in front of you? (Sorry, that's gonna really screw up the argument now isn't it lol)

Just a thought though......

I was thinking along the same lines too. Would easily answer why the two images posted above look like lap bars (they may be not and just simply bars) and strengthen that the main promotional image is, well, accurate of what restraint type the ride will have.

---

Regarding the argument as a whole. It could go either way. However the evidence of OTSRs outweighs the evidence of lap bars (which are very vague images).

I really don't think Alton Towers would spend £100s (or more even) on creating different types of promotional materials with OSTRs on if that wasn't the case. TowersStreet image in shop, 3D poster in the hotels, posters around the park, picture done in print - of course this could be a massive cover up to hide lap bars however they wouldn't have half wasted a lot of money on creating what they have showing OSTRs so far if that is the case.

I'm awaiting until the ride opens to see what happens. Although as far as what we can see in front of us, OSTRs looks more likely than lap bars at the present moment - whether you like it or not!

 

[cotda]

Sorted, the worlds first is that you can choose your restraints! Everyone happy?

 

[TheMan]

I really don't think Alton Towers would spend £100s (or more even) on creating different types of promotional materials with OSTRs on if that wasn't the case. TowersStreet image in shop, 3D poster in the hotels, posters around the park, picture done in print - of course this could be a massive cover up to hide lap bars however they wouldn't have half wasted a lot of money on creating what they have showing OSTRs so far if that is the case.

That isn't accurate James. TS Trading has both images, and the posters around park are where the image I poster earlier are from. I did think we all agreed to wait, I can accept where the OTSR pictures came from, but what you posted above is inaccurate.

It is also true as we keep saying, that the most recent images all appear to show lap bars.

Again I add, that I understand why both sides come to their conclusions - but I don't feel the need to deny the images that do show OTSR and where they appear.

Nothing to do with whether I like it or not. This isn't a personal thing lol! Just something a few of us feel is well evidenced that is all. If we are wrong, I know the people who believe it may well be lap bars, certainly aren't going to have any issue going - "oh right yeah, it is OTSR after all".

We aren't getting in everyone's faces about it, just explaining why we have come to our conclusion a this moment in time.

I hope if it IS lap bars, those dishing a bit out now will be as gracious.

 

[Martin]

Aren't we all bored of this discussion now? It's been tedious for a long time.

Can Alton please just reveal them so we can stop this petty nonsense?

 

[Rob]

I really don't think Alton Towers would spend £100s (or more even) on creating different types of promotional materials with OSTRs on if that wasn't the case. TowersStreet image in shop, 3D poster in the hotels, posters around the park, picture done in print - of course this could be a massive cover up to hide lap bars however they wouldn't have half wasted a lot of money on creating what they have showing OSTRs so far if that is the case.

That isn't accurate James. TS Trading has both images, and the posters around park are where the image I poster earlier are from. I did think we all agreed to wait, I can accept where the OTSR pictures came from, but what you posted above is inaccurate.

If you want to go on about things being totally accurate, TS Trading does not exist. It's Towers Trading. I know I said I was not going to mention it again but I can't not point this out.

I'm sorry but no-one can look up at that small image of a train on the track and think "oooh lapbars". However the large close up image, which will probably be in place for the next few years, clearly shows OTSRs. It's just so so obvious!!

 

[TheMan]

What about the upside down cars?

Or are you going to stick with the B&M restraints?

Maybe they will paint Nemesis red too. I am not looking to prove anyone right or wrong, but that image contains BOTH. I will do this as long as you lot will. Equally I am willing to respect where OTSRs DO appear, likewise the apparent Lap Bars restraints.

The fact that I was stood for a good half an hour with 3 other people ogling that picture in awe, has nothing to do with knowing exactly what is on it either...

And come on, commenting on a rogue letter S? I was in the middle of working whilst writing it ffs. Now that is getting petty and I thought we were better than that.