The World of David Walliams: General Discussion

[Rob]

I wouldn't be opposed to them delaying to 2020 and doing something slightly larger in their mid year capex for the park's 40th birthday, as it were.

I thought medium CAPEX had now gone, and the new cycle from Merlin was large, small, small, small, large? Although you would imagine that a good CCL re-theme, including Charlie, would have to be a significant small CAPEX to be good.

 

[Rick]

I thought medium CAPEX had now gone, and the new cycle from Merlin was large, small, small, small, large? Although you would imagine that a good CCL re-theme, including Charlie, would have to be a significant small CAPEX to be good.

That was the new model, but the even newer model is the old model of Peak, Low, Medium, Low.

4-year

(peak, low, medium, low)
N.B. ‘Peak’ is c.£12m

• Need for new rides and shows on regular basis, particularly for teen segment
• Family attractions less capex intensive

Introduction to Merlin Entertainments 2018 - Page 15

Cue conversation about 'shows'

 

[Rob]

That was the new model, but the even newer model is the old model of Peak, Low, Medium, Low.

4-year

(peak, low, medium, low)
N.B. ‘Peak’ is c.£12m

• Need for new rides and shows on regular basis, particularly for teen segment
• Family attractions less capex intensive

Introduction to Merlin Entertainments 2018 - Page 15

Cue conversation about 'shows'

Ah, I did not realise that the new model had been replaced by a newer model which is basically the same as the old model!

Although with peak being classed as around £12 million, it does seem like the thresholds for each are lower now. Having said that, peak at Alton Towers has always been more than peak at Chessington.

 

[Rick]

Ah, I did not realise that the new model had been replaced by a newer model which is basically the same as the old model!

Indeed, at the time of the IPO they were focussed on the High, Low, Low, Low model, but by 2016 they had put the medium one in there.

Although with peak being classed as around £12 million, it does seem like the thresholds for each are lower now. Having said that, peak at Alton Towers has always been more than peak at Chessington.

True. For RTP, their initial communication to investors was that a 'Low' year was anything between £1m - £5m and that 'High' would be anything between £4m - £12m - so they definitely gave themselves a little wiggle room, to allow for a horses for courses approach (in that a 'Low' project at Alton could be larger than a 'High' at Warwick Castle).

 

[bluesonichd]

That was the new model, but the even newer model is the old model of Peak, Low, Medium, Low.

4-year

(peak, low, medium, low)
N.B. ‘Peak’ is c.£12m

• Need for new rides and shows on regular basis, particularly for teen segment
• Family attractions less capex intensive

Introduction to Merlin Entertainments 2018 - Page 15

Cue conversation about 'shows'

kept clicking the link thinking why isnt it working, then looked at the 15 pdfs thats had downloaded

any how, the report ... HOW?

with a High , Low Medium, Low, thats no new CCL till 2020, thats a long time

 

[Rick]

with a High , Low Medium, Low, thats no new CCL till 2020, thats a long time

They did build a new roller coaster last week... word is it's going to open soon

 

[Benzin]

They did build a new roller coaster last week... word is it's going to open soon

Just not today

 

[James]

It would be worth waiting for 2020 for a CCL retheme if it meant more money being spent. Could keep up with the immersiveness of Wicker Man then, which I'm sure would be quite easy given they can keep the current hardware in the area and retheme it.

Since Rick brought up shows P) - I still want to see an indoor theatre/arena at Towers. Something the park has been missing for a very very long time.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[AT86]

kept clicking the link thinking why isnt it working, then looked at the 15 pdfs thats had downloaded

any from the report ... HOW?

with a High , Low Medium, Low, thats no new CCL till 2020, thats a long time

Because they very carefully manage who fills those customer feedback screens in. The approach is always along the lines of ‘have you had a good day/meal/visit/experience?’ If you answer yes you are asked to provide feedback on the screens. If you answer no or complain - you aren’t.

 

[Matt N]

I didn't think that they really applied a cycle anymore aside from one major investment every 4 years? Because by that cycle, Thorpe would be due a medium investment this year, and I wouldn't exactly guess that TWD:TR is a medium. I also wouldn't have guessed that Shaman, last year's investment at Gardaland, was a medium investment either. Also, I just noticed that going by that cycle, Garda are due a major investment next year (2019).

 

[Rick]

@Matt N that's the plan - they can deviate if they need to, but have to be careful when doing so because by their own admission - that's how they get people through the door.

 

[Matt N]

@Matt N that's the plan - they can deviate if they need to, but have to be careful when doing so because by their own admission - that's how they get people through the door.

Ah right. Thanks @Rick! May I just say that you seem very knowledgeable about the inner workings of Merlin!

I reckon 2019 might deviate from the cycle and be a medium year, as according to Bradley Wynne's LinkedIn page, whatever he is designing for the park in 2019 has been in the planning stages since October 2016. In my eyes, that seems too long of a time period for it to be a low investment. For reference, CBeebies Land didn't enter the design stage until November 2012 according to this page, and that set them back £9m in total, I believe? Even Wicker Man entered the design stage in August 2015, so I think this will be quite a large (but not a major investment) project for 2019, whether it is a CCL retheme or not!

 

[Rose Of Dawn]

I’ll be surprised if 2019 isn’t a CCL retheme. Bearing in mind Cbeebees directly followed The Smiler, and I’d say they were both fairly significant investments.

I’ve not followed the whole thread, but are people still thinking this could potentially be a Dreamworks area? Because I think something like that aimed at 10 year olds would be ideal. They wouldn’t even need to install a new coaster!

 

[TheBolt]

Dreamworks might well show a lack of imagination, but it would work really well for marketing and merchandising. Those TV adverts could really appeal to the family market with a relatively small investment compared to more SWs.
Look at how Pepper Pig Land and Thomas Land turned around some of their competitors.
A major park has to offer something new and exciting every year,be it a new parade, show, rollercoaster or whatever...

 

[Matt.GC]

I don't think CCL can wait until 2020, it's been in a virtually deserted state for 3 seasons now and there's a pretty obvious gap in the lineup for proper family attractions, as highlighted on here and by guest feedback.

I also don't think it needs a massive CAPEX investment to turn it around. Driving school and Frog Hopper are already there (Gallopers should be moved to Cbeebies) , Toadstool could reopen tomorrow with a cheap spruce up, the buildings are dirt cheap to retheme and putting in a new 4d film and retheme of Charlie wouldn't cost too mucb either. Hell they could even go the whole hog and fit a new soft play into wobble world and move Spinball into coaster corner, erect a soundproof tent around it and market it as a new dark coaster if they wanted to.

All this could be highly marketable, would fill a gap in the lineup and be relatively cheap.

 

[Rose Of Dawn]

Hell they could even go the whole hog and fit a new soft play into wobble world and move Spinball into coaster corner, erect a soundproof tent around it and market it as a new dark coaster if they wanted to.

All this could be highly marketable, would fill a gap in the lineup and be relatively cheap.

I think moving Spinball would be quite a difficult task, which I think is due to the way it was installed with lots of concrete.

But I do agree with the sentiment that the retheme would be quite cheap overall. Though it wouldn't hurt to get at least one new piece of hardware in.

 

[James]

I imagine 2019 would be the cheap retheme using the existing hardware, then 2020 following with new hardware of some description. Similar to CBeebies Land expansion.

There's some good potential in CCL due to the amount of indoor space (interactive walkthrough in Nickelodeon building and small indoor show in the indoor play area?), and Coaster Corner could be utilised if they were feeling ambitious.

I hope it becomes a Dreamworks area with a mix of IPs, who knows with Towers though.

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[Rob]

I too can imagine a two phase project with it all kicking off in 2019; it would allow them to do much more with the area. 2019 could be a re-theme of the existing ride and attractions, including Charie. Then in 2020 we could see a new ride or too that would potentially expand the area. In an ideal world some form of log flume ride would come in 2020, they are perfect family rides and the park is seriously lacking one now.

I think it is extremely likely to be an IP as that makes it so much easier to market and make merchandise sales. However I would of course much prefer some sort of original theme.

 

[Skyscraper]

They could do with constructing a new path between CCL and X Sector, as guests currently have to go down, accross and up, which can take a while.

 

[Dave]

They could do with constructing a new path between CCL and X Sector, as guests currently have to go down, accross and up, which can take a while.

You would have to go around the back of the Towers past the flag tower which is in an absolute state. Probably wouldnt be much shorter, would cut across access roads and Oblivion gets a bit in the way.