Theme Park Worldwide

[Themeparksandy1981]

I think he needs to not say what parks his visiting in advance as it can start to get nasty for Shawn and Charlotte and then his neighbours read about them and then his parents and family home gets targeted next.
Also I know that during the live blogs Alex and Charlotte were mods in the message section deleting messages and replying.

 

[Mikw]

A reminder again that we are choosing to not allow the names of those who have had allegations made against them or specifics about the allegations to be posted. The reasoning being below:

Quite right too. In some cases internet speculation can bring down a case.

 

[Mikw]

Yes, of course it would, because a predator is a predator and will find a way to engage vulnerable people.

Are you suggesting that theme park bloggers and vloggers are inherently a risk to society? So much so they should have restrictions on them that would pretty much stop them functioning in the modern world?

The opposite of innocent until proven guilty that is.

Quite.

I've no doubt there's some right gits out there - there is in society as a whole.

I have every sympathy with the victims. In fact two of my closest friends have been the victims of sexual abuse, one at the hands of a teacher, and the orher at the hands of a top music industry executive.

However, i am a mid 40's balding gentleman who visits Theme Parks, sometimes on my own - now i'm worried that people are looking at me and saying "He's dodgy".

 

[Benjsh]

Can I just make a point about this innocent until proven guilty angle that keeps appearing. Whilst theres obviously some truth to that statement in the real world it just doesn't work like that. Take Michael Jackson for example. He was deemed innocent of all charges in court yet I think he was guilty as hell and got away with it because of who he was and the lawyers he could afford. If it was Joe bloggs down the street who admitted to having boys in his bed he goes to jail every single time.

And bringing it back to this situation if there was 1 or 2 people saying it then you could make a case for innocent until proven guilty. However I have now seen one of the people from tpww accused by at least 10 people and all their tales are specific and quite disturbing I have to say. No way on earth are all them girls liars. No chance at all. So innocent until proven guilty is vague and quite a grey area at times.

Its plainly obvious to me that the person I'm referring to is a seriously disturbed young man and a real threat to the public. I don't think it's even up for debate from the things I have read. Maybe 1 other as well who has had a few people come forward.

 

[Sauron97]

Can I just make a point about this innocent until proven guilty angle that keeps appearing. Whilst theres obviously some truth to that statement in the real world it just doesn't work like that. Take Michael Jackson for example. He was deemed innocent of all charges in court yet I think he was guilty as hell and got away with it because of who he was and the lawyers he could afford. If it was Joe bloggs down the street who admitted to having boys in his bed he goes to jail every single time.

That's true, the law can often be either corrupt or work in the perpetrators favour; although how is that relevant in this instance?

And bringing it back to this situation if there was 1 or 2 people saying it then you could make a case for innocent until proven guilty. However I have now seen one of the people from tpww accused by at least 10 people and all their tales are specific and quite disturbing I have to say. No way on earth are all them girls liars. No chance at all. So innocent until proven guilty is vague and quite a grey area at times.

The alleged victims that have come forward have brought out some very nasty stories and they are clearly distressed I agree. For that they deserve both extensive support and consideration of their feelings, instead of people being rude and dismissive. It's very irritating to hear people more worried about their loss on daily youtube content than other peoples lives.
However, while I say that, I disagree with virtually everything you say here. When it comes to the delivery of justice, you cannot say that someone is guilty just because their "tales sound specific " or even because its more than one person that has come forward.The law should be objective, and needs to look at things with as much impartiality as possible. This whole unfortunate situation aside, are you seriously suggesting that people have never fabricated elaborate emotional stories either on their own or in groups to bring down people they've sometimes never even met? (It's not my job to make a list, but on the internet you don't have to go far to see historical examples) As a previous poster suggested, just because we show sympathy for the victims and treat them as if what they are saying is true, it does not mean legally that we know with 100% certainty what their motives are or what they actually experienced. Even if there's an absolutely minuscule chance things aren't as they are describing them, we can't act as judges or the accused unless we have the right information. And none of us on here do have the right information. So we cannot therefore use terms like "no chance" or "no way".
We should also try not to attack anyone involved, because the last thing we want to do is interfere with whatever legal processes are occurring, or ruin the credibility of the people who have come out with these stories. Yelling out 'PEDO SYMPATHIZER" and spamming it everywhere on the comment sections of their social media helps nobody, and just encourages other people to frown on the cause that you're defending, even if it is a legitimate one. We should be sensible and logical and hope that the situation is dealt with appropriately by authorities before making any sound judgement.

 

[RoyJess]

Can I just make a point about this innocent until proven guilty angle that keeps appearing. Whilst theres obviously some truth to that statement in the real world it just doesn't work like that. Take Michael Jackson for example. He was deemed innocent of all charges in court yet I think he was guilty as hell and got away with it because of who he was and the lawyers he could afford. If it was Joe bloggs down the street who admitted to having boys in his bed he goes to jail every single time.

And bringing it back to this situation if there was 1 or 2 people saying it then you could make a case for innocent until proven guilty. However I have now seen one of the people from tpww accused by at least 10 people and all their tales are specific and quite disturbing I have to say. No way on earth are all them girls liars. No chance at all. So innocent until proven guilty is vague and quite a grey area at times.

Its plainly obvious to me that the person I'm referring to is a seriously disturbed young man and a real threat to the public. I don't think it's even up for debate from the things I have read. Maybe 1 other as well who has had a few people come forward.

Innocent until proven guilty it the law. In law any allegations have to be backed up by evidence (this can include independent witness statements).

Just because there is no evidence, doesn't mean that the accused is innocent or the victim is lying, and it also don't give people the right to go around spreading the accusations (even if you are not the actual victim), which can then end up with you being sued for "Deformation of character"

 

[delta79]

I think he needs to not say what parks his visiting in advance as it can start to get nasty for Them and then his neighbours read about them and then his parents and family home gets targeted next.

Unfortunately, it does not need to be their neighbours. Anyone could track down where they live.

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[Spookle15]

Just want to briefly discuss a few things that have been raised regarding male visitors to theme parks.

I'm probably in a minority here, as well as being female, I only ever go to a theme park with my older brother. So I'm never with a group of people, or more specifically females.

Generally we stick together, but more than once during a trip to AT, he will go on a ride and I'm happy to sit and wait. Sometimes I'll be in one of the arcades but mostly I'll find somewhere I can sit near the ride.

I can honestly say the whole idea of sexual harassment being (or it seems to be suggested) quite common, or more common than in other environments (again, it's the impression I'm getting) to be very surprising.

I see groups of teenage males, females, older groups of males, females, mixed groups of all ages, and also single people.

I generally find any of those people if they are loud and annoying to be the kind I will move away from and be wary of. Don't care what your age or gender is, if you're being obnoxious, I don't want you anywhere near me from just a "don't want to associate with loud people" perspective.

I have never had any reason to be wary of any person during my years at AT, specifically, I have certainly never had reason to be wary of males, whether in groups or by themselves. (Unless like I said, they're being noisy, and then I'll just move away because I can't deal with people like that).

It's sometimes been quite nice when someone who is by themselves has started talking to us - this tends to happen more to my brother when he is by himself on a ride - asking about our day etc. It's nice to speak to other people who are enjoying their day out.

I definitely would not like the idea that males of a certain age, especially if they are by themselves feel somehow that they are viewed by females as someone to be wary of, because from my perspective that's not the case.

As a female wherever I go, there are certain things I look out for, but a lone male in a theme park, or even a group of them, would not raise my suspicions just because they are there. They'd have to do more than just be in the park for me to feel uncomfortable.

I had someone suddenly talk to me in a Waterstones a few years ago (worst nightmare as I'm shy anyway), he asked me where I was from (I lied of course), then asked me to guess where he was from based on his accent (Turkey by the way, like I was going to guess that). Then he asked me what my plans were for the day, shopping with my brother I replied, who I then pointed to across the room (he was actually with me, I was being honest this time), then I smiled politely, said goodbye and walked away. I knew instantly I did not want to be in that situation and got out of it as quickly as I could. He may have been a perfectly normal man who was just looking for someone to talk to, but in my mind was "not today matey".

So, yes while it is obvious things do happen in theme parks, although are they more unsafe than other environments, I don't know, I certainly have never questioned why you see single males, just like I never question why you see single females. Or why some people go to the cinema by themselves.

Maybe it's just me being naive having never witnessed or experienced anything negative in a theme park but those are just my thoughts anyway. Theme parks should be for everyone no matter who you are or whether you choose to go by yourself or not.

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

Just want to briefly discuss a few things that have been raised regarding male visitors to theme parks.

I'm probably in a minority here, as well as being female, I only ever go to a theme park with my older brother. So I'm never with a group of people, or more specifically females.

Generally we stick together, but more than once during a trip to AT, he will go on a ride and I'm happy to sit and wait. Sometimes I'll be in one of the arcades but mostly I'll find somewhere I can sit near the ride.

I can honestly say the whole idea of sexual harassment being (or it seems to be suggested) quite common, or more common than in other environments (again, it's the impression I'm getting) to be very surprising.

I see groups of teenage males, females, older groups of males, females, mixed groups of all ages, and also single people.

I generally find any of those people if they are loud and annoying to be the kind I will move away from and be wary of. Don't care what your age or gender is, if you're being obnoxious, I don't want you anywhere near me from just a "don't want to associate with loud people" perspective.

I have never had any reason to be wary of any person during my years at AT, specifically, I have certainly never had reason to be wary of males, whether in groups or by themselves. (Unless like I said, they're being noisy, and then I'll just move away because I can't deal with people like that).

It's sometimes been quite nice when someone who is by themselves has started talking to us - this tends to happen more to my brother when he is by himself on a ride - asking about our day etc. It's nice to speak to other people who are enjoying their day out.

I definitely would not like the idea that males of a certain age, especially if they are by themselves feel somehow that they are viewed by females as someone to be wary of, because from my perspective that's not the case.

As a female wherever I go, there are certain things I look out for, but a lone male in a theme park, or even a group of them, would not raise my suspicions just because they are there. They'd have to do more than just be in the park for me to feel uncomfortable.

I had someone suddenly talk to me in a Waterstones a few years ago (worst nightmare as I'm shy anyway), he asked me where I was from (I lied of course), then asked me to guess where he was from based on his accent (Turkey by the way, like I was going to guess that). Then he asked me what my plans were for the day, shopping with my brother I replied, who I then pointed to across the room (he was actually with me, I was being honest this time), then I smiled politely, said goodbye and walked away. I knew instantly I did not want to be in that situation and got out of it as quickly as I could. He may have been a perfectly normal man who was just looking for someone to talk to, but in my mind was "not today matey".

So, yes while it is obvious things do happen in theme parks, although are they more unsafe than other environments, I don't know, I certainly have never questioned why you see single males, just like I never question why you see single females. Or why some people go to the cinema by themselves.

Maybe it's just me being naive having never witnessed or experienced anything negative in a theme park but those are just my thoughts anyway. Theme parks should be for everyone no matter who you are or whether you choose to go by yourself or not.

That's why I'm worried about my daughter as she goes on Roblox and Tiktok and people reply to her videos and talk to her online but I keep telling her that under a nickname you can be talking to anyone. I have deleted many of her accounts but they so easy to sign up for.
It is a little weird someone coming up to you in a shop asking where your from and what your doing today. I worry with my daughter been 8 now would I be happy for her to go to theme parks with her friends when she's in her mid teenagers if there older men following them around asking for there mobile numbers etc.

 

[Spookle15]

That's why I'm worried about my daughter as she goes on Roblox and Tiktok and people reply to her videos and talk to her online but I keep telling her that under a nickname you can be talking to anyone. I have deleted many of her accounts but they so easy to sign up for.
It is a little weird someone coming up to you in a shop asking where your from and what your doing today. I worry with my daughter been 8 now would I be happy for her to go to theme parks with her friends when she's in her mid teenagers if there older men following them around asking for there mobile numbers etc.

I know every generation probably think their childhoods were the best, but I'm glad that I was a teenager before all the technology really kicked in. I have never had a mobile phone. If I'd wanted one, it would have been "no".

I suppose if you allow your daughter to be on the internet you probably have to show her some tough love, like you have been doing with deleting things she has signed up for. Maybe try the route that having a device to let her explore new things and chat to friends isn't a right but a privilege and something that can be taken away. Or in my parents case, obliterated before my eyes.

I would share your concerns. Because with the best will in the world and the brightest of brains, in a herd situation especially, teenagers can be stupid.

But I would say, seeing people in shopping centres, it's a similar mixed bag of people so I wouldn't automatically say in a few years time, a theme park would be any worse place for a teenager to be. I guess you do have a few years to get ready, and also prepare her for the do's and don'ts.

Yes, it was pretty weird but I guess I did have the safety net of having my brother with me. We often split up when we go down to London for a few days, so thinking about it, I'd have felt a lot more uncomfortable had it happened far away from home and if I had been by myself.

...... But anyway, I don't know how big this story regarding TPWW is going to spread, whether the average theme park visitor will even hear about it, but I hope it doesn't affect anyone who wants to go to theme parks and is now maybe unsure as to how safe they are. My experience is I've never experienced anything, and I would hope that is the case for a vast majority of people.

 

[DistortAMG]

Of course people are going to hear about it. People will make sure of it. These people are potentially sexual predators and potentially a danger to women. It is in peoples duty as a decent human being to make sure this story is heard far and wide.

As a parent myself. I have zero tolerance for this stuff. As do most people. Just getting accused these days is enough to get ties severed, rightly so too because after some of the high profile incidents we have had in this country, it is better to be pro active rather than reative in this sort of situation that should go without saying be fair.

 

[Spookle15]

Of course people are going to hear about it. People will make sure of it. These people are potentially sexual predators and potentially a danger to women. It is in peoples duty as a decent human being to make sure this story is heard far and wide.

Until I happened upon this forum a few years ago, I'd never heard about traveller's day but apparently that is common knowledge amongst the community, yet every year on twitter and FB, average theme park visitors have no clue. I wasn't suggesting no one would hear about it, not at all. I was referring to the average person who doesn't necessarily follow groups or even feel the need to go near a theme parks facebook page etc. They may genuinely never hear about it. But if more people know about it, when we know 100% what is going on, then fine, as you said it's only right that people do know.

My comment was more I hope it won't stop people from enjoying theme parks.

 

[DistortAMG]

Until I happened upon this forum a few years ago, I'd never heard about traveller's day but apparently that is common knowledge amongst the community, yet every year on twitter and FB, average theme park visitors have no clue. I wasn't suggesting no one would hear about it, not at all. I was referring to the average person who doesn't necessarily follow groups or even feel the need to go near a theme parks facebook page etc.

Erm what? Your logic is way off. How can you compare the dangers associated with sexual predators to travelers day at Alton Towers. What is the danger associated with travellers day that is so bad that everyone needs to know about it?

People will hear about this because the people are potentially dangerous to young women. Something this country has zero tolerance for these days.

 

[Spookle15]

Erm what? Your logic is way off. How can you compare the dangers associated with sexual predators to travelers day at Alton Towers. What is the danger associated with travellers day that is so bad that everyone needs to know about it?

People will hear about this because the people are potentially dangerous to young women. Something this country has zero tolerance for these days.

*sigh*

I am not comparing the two cases.... but at the time, me a non-forum member, an average person went to AT with no knowledge of these events, but considering everything that goes with those days, it would have been informative to know. I hadn't read about them online anywhere, because I didn't know I had to.

That is all that I meant. If a person goes online to buy their AT ticket, and that is the total sum of any internet search for Alton Towers that they do, they won't hear about all this that is going on. Not everyone follows everything on the internet. If you live in Glasgow, you won't probably be reading news local to AT.

People will not automatically open up google one day and find any future story about TPWW right in front of their eyes. That is all I was trying to say. Have you never heard about something a long time after the news actually broke? Hand on heart, I know I have, sometimes years later.

Please do no make this into something it isn't, I meant no offence, nor was I suggesting travellers day was anything to compare with knowing about sexual harassment of women from theme park "enthusiasts".

 

[Benjsh]

Innocent until proven guilty it the law. In law any allegations have to be backed up by evidence (this can include independent witness statements).

Just because there is no evidence, doesn't mean that the accused is innocent or the victim is lying, and it also don't give people the right to go around spreading the accusations (even if you are not the actual victim), which can then end up with you being sued for "Deformation of character"

It's the law of course it is but people pretending like they don't make their mind ups before a decision aren't really being honest.

Like I said I'm only talking about one of the accused in particular here but the stories of this persons predatory techniques are repeated. There's no way they are all liars. I dont need a decision from the police to realise that person is dangerous. There's not a cat in hells chance them stories are faked. He's as guilty as charged from what I have read.

The other ones arent quite as clear cut I will admit.

 

[rob666]

..

Please welcome Bailey the three legged wonder dogs first post.
Sorry about that...mustn't leave the tablet on the settee.
Will try to get him to do a meaningful post next time.

 

[RoyJess]

It's the law of course it is but people pretending like they don't make their mind ups before a decision aren't really being honest.

Like I said I'm only talking about one of the accused in particular here but the stories of this persons predatory techniques are repeated. There's no way they are all liars. I dont need a decision from the police to realise that person is dangerous. There's not a cat in hells chance them stories are faked. He's as guilty as charged from what I have read.

The other ones arent quite as clear cut I will admit.

As the police have been involved, this is a matter for the police to investigate the allegations and bring charges where necessarily.

 

[DistortAMG]

As the police have been involved, this is a matter for the police to investigate the allegations and bring charges where necessarily.

Its quite a difficult process bringing charges in cases like this. They don't always get charged for a whole host of reasons. They are difficult cases to prosecute.


This does not make them any less dangerous.

 

[delta79]

Its quite a difficult process bringing charges in cases like this. They don't always get charged for a whole host of reasons. They are difficult cases to prosecute.


This does not make them any less dangerous.

This is why some of us are being careful with our comments. As we don't want to be the loophole that derails the correct process.

I have seen the evidence on social media. Decided what i believe and will not boardcast it, until the legal process is done or it is publicly announced no further act is being taken.

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[Benzin]

Its quite a difficult process bringing charges in cases like this. They don't always get charged for a whole host of reasons. They are difficult cases to prosecute.


This does not make them any less dangerous.

This is unfortunately the case. Some people even get all the way to court to have true justice ripped away from them because it ends up being a child's words against an adult.

Although these days records of conversations are easier but only if it's done online. If such things are done at meets or outside of parks, it's very difficult to supply "real" evidence. Plus of course the person in question has to realise they're being groomed, which isn't necessarily that obvious.