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Thorpe Park: General Discussion
Alastair
TS Team
Re: Thorpe Park
Obviously they wouldn't install a Spiderman themed ride, but a completely separate theme utilising the IOA Spiderman technology which is absolutely brilliant. IMO the 3D actually made it a better ride than Forbidden Journey. It'd be completely unique to the UK and if they did it correctly would also be one of the best dark rides in the UK. Probably the best given the current offerings.
Altitude said:
Obviously they wouldn't install a Spiderman themed ride, but a completely separate theme utilising the IOA Spiderman technology which is absolutely brilliant. IMO the 3D actually made it a better ride than Forbidden Journey. It'd be completely unique to the UK and if they did it correctly would also be one of the best dark rides in the UK. Probably the best given the current offerings.
BigAl
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
I didn't suggest a ride like Spiderman, I was on about the size of the buildings being similar. They have the space to build a world class dark ride, though obviously they don't have the same funds as Universal had for Spiderman. Still, it's what you do with the money that you have that counts, and Thorpe don't have to spend money creating a new ride building so they already have a good start.
Altitude said:
I didn't suggest a ride like Spiderman, I was on about the size of the buildings being similar. They have the space to build a world class dark ride, though obviously they don't have the same funds as Universal had for Spiderman. Still, it's what you do with the money that you have that counts, and Thorpe don't have to spend money creating a new ride building so they already have a good start.
Rob
TS Team
Re: Thorpe Park
I must admit I am also slightly bemused at the sudden X fondness after years of the majority of people mocking it! In my opinion it is awful and it's not far off the worst coaster I have ever ridden, it's certainly in the top 5 with the likes of Shockwave at Kings Dominion. And I didn't know it was themed to a computer virus until reading this topic, that shows how poorly the theme is executed. Can it really be claimed it does have that theme when virtually nothing points towards it? I've been on it enough times and the thought of that being the theme has never crossed my mind.
I must admit I am also slightly bemused at the sudden X fondness after years of the majority of people mocking it! In my opinion it is awful and it's not far off the worst coaster I have ever ridden, it's certainly in the top 5 with the likes of Shockwave at Kings Dominion. And I didn't know it was themed to a computer virus until reading this topic, that shows how poorly the theme is executed. Can it really be claimed it does have that theme when virtually nothing points towards it? I've been on it enough times and the thought of that being the theme has never crossed my mind.
Islander
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
Things such as queueline TVs used to make the theme clear. There is a large difference between X when it opened, and X as it is now (or, to be fair, X as it was not long after it opened).Rob said:Can it really be claimed it does have that theme when virtually nothing points towards it? I've been on it enough times and the thought of that being the theme has never crossed my mind.
Ian
TS Team
Re: Thorpe Park
I beg to differ. While the term virus has become something which is very common (An inevitable effect given the massive growth of computing amongst general users) the foundations of where that started, and what they can lead to is still something which can be very well dressed up and modern.
The old idea of viruses has evolved more into cyber attacks. Viruses are just as prominent and mainstream as ever. If anything they are more so. There are more devices and more platforms coming along all the time, all of which are waiting to be infected. The current one at the moment is the risk of Mac infection. It's an upcoming issue which is considered to stem from the increased number of devices. How many times do you hear someone suggest their computer has a virus. Most of us will encounter one at some point. Even a popup from an anti-virus program to say one was blocked shows that the risk is still there. In that respect I see where you are coming from Sam. But that's just what the term "virus" has become through popular culture. The association has changed.
What used to be a virus is now better known as a "cyber attack". These we hear about quite often. You have the groups like Annonymous wrecking havoc on sites and companies around the world, and whenever this happens it seems to become well publicised and documented. Just look at the PlayStation Network incident a few months back. That had loads of people talking. While not an actual virus (More of a hacking attempt) it was still something which had people talking about. Cyber attacks still have a place in society where people know and understand the term.
Earlier this year there was dispute over governments using cyber warfare against one another, trying to gain access to state secrets, and sabotage systems. While the term and wording has changed, the key idea and goal is still there. What was once commonly known as a virus is now known as a cyber attack. Wether the technical terming is correct or not is another mater. Substance can be sacreficed for spectical in this case, and Thorpe can do whatever is felt necessary to better convey the theme.
X:\ can easily be reshaped to fit this new perception of cyber attack. There is no need to replace the idea. To put it another way, they almost just need some re-wording to move the focus (On an updated version, naturally. Do it on the current version and no one will know the difference ).
In popular culture the effects and consequences of cyber attacks are well recorded. Just watch Skyfall for example. A massive point of the plot revolves around technology and cyber warfare. People understand and follow that.
As for being unique, I'd simply say find 5 other rides which use the concept and centre the whole attraction around it. I've certainly never heard of any. Just because X:\ is bad though is certainly no cause to write off the concept. It is a unique idea. Thorpe need to harness that and run with it.
In current form X:\ may be a bit dated. But that's all down to its age and state. The theme does not need to change completely as there is endless potential with it. It merely needs to have the creative input to see an update through, and bring it into 2012. The theme needs to evolve with the rest of the world.
There is still a place for X:\Version.2 in today's world. It just needs bringing forwards into it. I'd sooner they tried to do that, than re-theme it completely to something more cliche or generic, and make a pigs ear of it.
Sam said:Ian said:
Yeah it was really cool and unique. In 1996. Today, the idea of theming a ride around a computer virus just seems so dated it hurts. The theme fits an age when computers looked like this, not like this. Due to better operating systems and people using mobile devices more, viruses aren't the major factor in mainstream computing that they once were.
It could have been a cool theme but the time for it has passed, and they made a hash of it. Start again with a brand new theme that feels more 2012, rather than ://1996
I beg to differ. While the term virus has become something which is very common (An inevitable effect given the massive growth of computing amongst general users) the foundations of where that started, and what they can lead to is still something which can be very well dressed up and modern.
The old idea of viruses has evolved more into cyber attacks. Viruses are just as prominent and mainstream as ever. If anything they are more so. There are more devices and more platforms coming along all the time, all of which are waiting to be infected. The current one at the moment is the risk of Mac infection. It's an upcoming issue which is considered to stem from the increased number of devices. How many times do you hear someone suggest their computer has a virus. Most of us will encounter one at some point. Even a popup from an anti-virus program to say one was blocked shows that the risk is still there. In that respect I see where you are coming from Sam. But that's just what the term "virus" has become through popular culture. The association has changed.
What used to be a virus is now better known as a "cyber attack". These we hear about quite often. You have the groups like Annonymous wrecking havoc on sites and companies around the world, and whenever this happens it seems to become well publicised and documented. Just look at the PlayStation Network incident a few months back. That had loads of people talking. While not an actual virus (More of a hacking attempt) it was still something which had people talking about. Cyber attacks still have a place in society where people know and understand the term.
Earlier this year there was dispute over governments using cyber warfare against one another, trying to gain access to state secrets, and sabotage systems. While the term and wording has changed, the key idea and goal is still there. What was once commonly known as a virus is now known as a cyber attack. Wether the technical terming is correct or not is another mater. Substance can be sacreficed for spectical in this case, and Thorpe can do whatever is felt necessary to better convey the theme.
X:\ can easily be reshaped to fit this new perception of cyber attack. There is no need to replace the idea. To put it another way, they almost just need some re-wording to move the focus (On an updated version, naturally. Do it on the current version and no one will know the difference
).In popular culture the effects and consequences of cyber attacks are well recorded. Just watch Skyfall for example. A massive point of the plot revolves around technology and cyber warfare. People understand and follow that.
As for being unique, I'd simply say find 5 other rides which use the concept and centre the whole attraction around it. I've certainly never heard of any. Just because X:\ is bad though is certainly no cause to write off the concept. It is a unique idea. Thorpe need to harness that and run with it.
In current form X:\ may be a bit dated. But that's all down to its age and state. The theme does not need to change completely as there is endless potential with it. It merely needs to have the creative input to see an update through, and bring it into 2012. The theme needs to evolve with the rest of the world.
There is still a place for X:\Version.2 in today's world. It just needs bringing forwards into it. I'd sooner they tried to do that, than re-theme it completely to something more cliche or generic, and make a pigs ear of it.
Re: Thorpe Park
I went on it many, many, times during that year. Never once could I understand what it said or what it was about, although I did enjoy the acting. That's it.
It's constantly been trying to improve the theme or make it make sense, and those involved themselves have said it doesn't work. There's no way (without excessive budget) of doing it. You're flogging a dead horse, and no amount of work can cover for a poor queue layout and poor ride system.
The queueline tvs which appeared around 06 or 07, and lasted one season?Islander said:
I went on it many, many, times during that year. Never once could I understand what it said or what it was about, although I did enjoy the acting. That's it.
It's constantly been trying to improve the theme or make it make sense, and those involved themselves have said it doesn't work. There's no way (without excessive budget) of doing it. You're flogging a dead horse, and no amount of work can cover for a poor queue layout and poor ride system.
E
electricBlll
Re: Thorpe Park
I believe RMC never intended X No Way Out to have the commonly accepted "computer virus" theme. They ran out of funds when they built it so their original proposal had to be compromised. To further complicate it, each new owner of the park has tried to apply their own interpretation of it over the years just to get people to ride it. Now the park have just given up pretending there is a point to X Now Way Out anymore, so now it is just a backwards party in the dark.
As it is, there is practically nothing pertaining to the computer virus theme, except the ":\\" in the title. Which is being used less anyway these days - it was actually removed from the entrance a few years ago.
In 2007, there was that attempted "retheme", which was really just a small refurb to replace broken light fittings and shift a few old props around. But it was at this point that a new backstory was added, in the form of a low budget queueline video telling the story of the "X supercomputer" that went out of control, like some horror story set up; nobody really paid attention to it though and it was rather unprofessionally produced. The video did not return in 2008.
The full length queueline, or preshow as it was intended to be, was abandoned years ago and most of the features removed. A very interesting article from Vekoma when they were planning the ride (I can't remember where it was posted) explained how X No Way Out was intended to be much more than just a rollercoaster. Each room you walked through had its own "challenge", which the riders would have to complete, ultimately reaching the rollercoaster as the finale. I recall the article proposed that riders spend almost an hour inside the pyramid. It's easy to see why this idea never materialised properly...
However, the preshow rooms were built obviously, including the upside-down room, UV robot room, the revolving tunnel - then called The Vortex, and the trick lifts into the station. And the 1997 park map still urges you to "face the preride challenges" in its description. The appearance of robots suggests a computer theme, but not necessarily an evil computer theme just yet.
Does anybody know when or why the full length corridor closed? I assume it is because they just started using it as a queueline rather than a preshow, and there would never be a queue long enough to fill it up so they shortened it. I know these days they are not allowed to keep large groups of people waiting in the interior queue anyway, for health and safety reasons.
I think the only original theming remaining are some robot heads suspended from the ceiling in one part of the corridor. I get the impression Thorpe Park emphasised the computer virus idea in around 2000 to market it towards its new teenage audience, but it was only even intended to be a slightly scary family thrill ride (exactly like Thirteen - packs a punch but isn't extreme). And of course the restraints were badly designed so they had to raise the height restriction to 1.4m.
My point is: X No Way Out was a mess of bad ideas and failures from the beginning. But still fun in an unusual way!
I believe RMC never intended X No Way Out to have the commonly accepted "computer virus" theme. They ran out of funds when they built it so their original proposal had to be compromised. To further complicate it, each new owner of the park has tried to apply their own interpretation of it over the years just to get people to ride it. Now the park have just given up pretending there is a point to X Now Way Out anymore, so now it is just a backwards party in the dark.
As it is, there is practically nothing pertaining to the computer virus theme, except the ":\\" in the title. Which is being used less anyway these days - it was actually removed from the entrance a few years ago.
In 2007, there was that attempted "retheme", which was really just a small refurb to replace broken light fittings and shift a few old props around. But it was at this point that a new backstory was added, in the form of a low budget queueline video telling the story of the "X supercomputer" that went out of control, like some horror story set up; nobody really paid attention to it though and it was rather unprofessionally produced. The video did not return in 2008.
The full length queueline, or preshow as it was intended to be, was abandoned years ago and most of the features removed. A very interesting article from Vekoma when they were planning the ride (I can't remember where it was posted) explained how X No Way Out was intended to be much more than just a rollercoaster. Each room you walked through had its own "challenge", which the riders would have to complete, ultimately reaching the rollercoaster as the finale. I recall the article proposed that riders spend almost an hour inside the pyramid. It's easy to see why this idea never materialised properly...
However, the preshow rooms were built obviously, including the upside-down room, UV robot room, the revolving tunnel - then called The Vortex, and the trick lifts into the station. And the 1997 park map still urges you to "face the preride challenges" in its description. The appearance of robots suggests a computer theme, but not necessarily an evil computer theme just yet.
Does anybody know when or why the full length corridor closed? I assume it is because they just started using it as a queueline rather than a preshow, and there would never be a queue long enough to fill it up so they shortened it. I know these days they are not allowed to keep large groups of people waiting in the interior queue anyway, for health and safety reasons.
I think the only original theming remaining are some robot heads suspended from the ceiling in one part of the corridor. I get the impression Thorpe Park emphasised the computer virus idea in around 2000 to market it towards its new teenage audience, but it was only even intended to be a slightly scary family thrill ride (exactly like Thirteen - packs a punch but isn't extreme). And of course the restraints were badly designed so they had to raise the height restriction to 1.4m.
My point is: X No Way Out was a mess of bad ideas and failures from the beginning. But still fun in an unusual way!
Re: Thorpe Park
The original queueline stopped being used for fire reasons or something, I believe?
Also, when the ride opened it had onboard speakers, which played helicopter noises and similar (so I'm told), which again completely clashed with any kind of futuristic theme - weird times!
The original queueline stopped being used for fire reasons or something, I believe?
Also, when the ride opened it had onboard speakers, which played helicopter noises and similar (so I'm told), which again completely clashed with any kind of futuristic theme - weird times!
pluk
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
It's not the best ride and never will be, but it can certainly be made to be an enjoyable experience with a few effects and a bit of love. They need to decide though and either get rid or do it properly, the result of the numerous half arsed attempts is a ride the park should consider an embarrassment. If they are doing something with it this year I hope they put in a lot more effort than before.
More importantly, electricBill!! I love it when he rears his head.
It's not the best ride and never will be, but it can certainly be made to be an enjoyable experience with a few effects and a bit of love. They need to decide though and either get rid or do it properly, the result of the numerous half arsed attempts is a ride the park should consider an embarrassment. If they are doing something with it this year I hope they put in a lot more effort than before.
More importantly, electricBill!! I love it when he rears his head.
Cheese
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
The years of useless changes have given X's queue a strange sort of rubbish character. Waiting for a hopeless coaster in a gloomy, dusty corridor that's had the walls painted dark blue and the layer of gum on the floor painted grey is not an appealing prospect. Yet somehow on meets the actual experience usually becomes quite a laugh. I think it's a combination of trying to spot changes that have been made since the last visit, the feeling of being separated from reality for a few minutes, and most of all how utterly ridiculous it all is.
It can't stay that way though, and the ride itself needs to change even more desperately. It's not the worst indoor Vekoma I've been on*, but I'm not sure whether the way it throws you around slightly is just down to not being able to see where you're going. Even if it does actually pull a bit of force I doubt it'd be very exciting running forwards. I think I'd prefer forwards regardless, but I'd be happy with either direction if the block brakes just passed the train straight through into the next block!
The block brakes for me are the real issue with the ride. An unspectacular but solid coaster is fine if you don't wait too long for it, but X has no flow whatsoever thanks to all that stopping and shuffling. Most laughable of all is the one where it feels like the train's trying to do a hill start in third gear, shudders, stops, finally engages first and moves away properly. The track will be profiled based on the speed the train leaves each block brake at, so by all means slow the train down to that speed, but keep it moving for pity's sake.
The virus theme is a very original idea, but it's something I could imagine costing an utter fortune to do properly and still not working very well. As others have suggested I'd apply the tried and tested 'rave coaster' format and add lasers, light-up framework around sections of the layout and a catchy trance track. It's unoriginal, but the park would be much better off with a poor man's EuroSat than the half-baked old joke the ride currently is.
*Temple Of The Night Hawk only has one mildly interesting bend in about 5 minutes of track!
The years of useless changes have given X's queue a strange sort of rubbish character. Waiting for a hopeless coaster in a gloomy, dusty corridor that's had the walls painted dark blue and the layer of gum on the floor painted grey is not an appealing prospect. Yet somehow on meets the actual experience usually becomes quite a laugh. I think it's a combination of trying to spot changes that have been made since the last visit, the feeling of being separated from reality for a few minutes, and most of all how utterly ridiculous it all is.
It can't stay that way though, and the ride itself needs to change even more desperately. It's not the worst indoor Vekoma I've been on*, but I'm not sure whether the way it throws you around slightly is just down to not being able to see where you're going. Even if it does actually pull a bit of force I doubt it'd be very exciting running forwards. I think I'd prefer forwards regardless, but I'd be happy with either direction if the block brakes just passed the train straight through into the next block!
The block brakes for me are the real issue with the ride. An unspectacular but solid coaster is fine if you don't wait too long for it, but X has no flow whatsoever thanks to all that stopping and shuffling. Most laughable of all is the one where it feels like the train's trying to do a hill start in third gear, shudders, stops, finally engages first and moves away properly. The track will be profiled based on the speed the train leaves each block brake at, so by all means slow the train down to that speed, but keep it moving for pity's sake.
The virus theme is a very original idea, but it's something I could imagine costing an utter fortune to do properly and still not working very well. As others have suggested I'd apply the tried and tested 'rave coaster' format and add lasers, light-up framework around sections of the layout and a catchy trance track. It's unoriginal, but the park would be much better off with a poor man's EuroSat than the half-baked old joke the ride currently is.
*Temple Of The Night Hawk only has one mildly interesting bend in about 5 minutes of track!
Tim
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
I've been waiting for the Nighthawk reference to come along
It kind of upsets me that on the announcement of Nighthawks removal we'd all be praising the decision yet X:\ No Way Out, a far inferior coaster, has become a cult classic. While I agree that Nighthawk is quite boring as far as track and train goes it’s a solid ride which even musters up a decent pacing. All they need is to add something to go with the ride besides 5 minutes of darkness.
X:\ No Way Out however is barely even a coaster. I've been on more dynamic transit rides. Sure I've had my fun with the ride simply because it's so bad it's fun to joke about. But I‘ve also had my fair share of fun joking about the similarly quirky Euro Mir but at least that can claim to be a fairly good ride.
That's not to say I'm not happy with this news, quite the contrary I'd like to see how the ride can be improved. Compared to what they have previously done in low investment years I can see this being a worthwhile improvement to the park. But I do wonder how good a job it's worth them doing to improve X:\ No Way Out when there’s only so much that can be done with what they’ve got.
I've been waiting for the Nighthawk reference to come along
It kind of upsets me that on the announcement of Nighthawks removal we'd all be praising the decision yet X:\ No Way Out, a far inferior coaster, has become a cult classic. While I agree that Nighthawk is quite boring as far as track and train goes it’s a solid ride which even musters up a decent pacing. All they need is to add something to go with the ride besides 5 minutes of darkness.
X:\ No Way Out however is barely even a coaster. I've been on more dynamic transit rides. Sure I've had my fun with the ride simply because it's so bad it's fun to joke about. But I‘ve also had my fair share of fun joking about the similarly quirky Euro Mir but at least that can claim to be a fairly good ride.
That's not to say I'm not happy with this news, quite the contrary I'd like to see how the ride can be improved. Compared to what they have previously done in low investment years I can see this being a worthwhile improvement to the park. But I do wonder how good a job it's worth them doing to improve X:\ No Way Out when there’s only so much that can be done with what they’ve got.
BigAl
TS Member
Re: Thorpe Park
Bored and ill, so I decided to have a look at the area used by X:\ and come up with a few ideas for what could replace it.
I'll start with this map taken from Google Earth:
(I've written 'about' for the sizes as I used Google Maps to measure the sides of the building )
Blue Area: X:\ Building
Red Area: Tent used for 'Se7en' and old arena seating
Yellow Area: Games stalls
I've labelled the three areas as I wanted to show the size of the original X:\ building as well as two areas that could be used if a replacement ride required more space.
I'll now go over a few IP and non-IP based ideas that I've come up with for a replacement of X:\ No Way Out:
IP based ideas
Call of Duty Nazi Zombies:
A laser shooting dark ride themed to Call of Duty's Nazi Zombie mini games (can you call them that? ). As much as I dislike the idea of using an IP (especially something based on CoD), I can't help but think that such a ride would go down well with Thorpe's average guest (sorry about the stereotyping, but it's kind of true :-[ ). It's probably not one of the most tasteful themes for a ride and it'd probably cause a lot of controversy if they were to create a ride based on killing undead Nazis, but I'll just throw the idea out there.
Bioshock:
A tour of the ruined underwater city Rapture from the Bioshock games. The scale of the city and the range of villains means that there's a lot to chose from for such a ride. Unfortunately it would probably be too expensive to implement at a decent standard and I've no idea if it'd be a popular IP to use, though if the rumoured film gets the go-ahead within the next few years, it might be something to consider?
Original Ideas
Lake Exploration:
A journey to the bottom of Thorpe's lakes to uncover old ruins and the creatures that inhabit them. Could be linked with Colossus and have some kind of Atlantean theme. Indoor water ride?
Ruined Weapons Silo:
An exploration of a ruined weapons silo which was destroyed many years ago when an accident detonated numerous warheads which sealed the workers beneath the Earth in irradiated tunnels and chambers. Could have laser blasters too?
Egyptian Tomb:
The existing pyramid could be rethemed and the new attraction could be based on a new museum style attraction which goes horribly wrong. A story could be that an angered Mummy unleashes a curse which plunges the newly opened Thorpe Museum into darkness and awakens the numerous exhibits which attempt to bring your tour to a grizzly end! To vary it from the Egyptian themed dark rides at Chessington and Legoland, the ride could be similar to the various Revenge of the Mummy rides found at Universal parks. A part dark ride, part coaster may require expanding the X:\ building around the back and on the side to allow for more room.
Obviously the X:\ building doesn't have to remain, but I feel that if Thorpe ditched the Vekoma thing, they have a great opportunity to build a decent(ish ) dark ride. They have enough flat rides and they already have plans for another coaster for 2015 which won't utilise this site too.
Bored and ill, so I decided to have a look at the area used by X:\ and come up with a few ideas for what could replace it.
I'll start with this map taken from Google Earth:
(I've written 'about' for the sizes as I used Google Maps to measure the sides of the building
)Blue Area: X:\ Building
Red Area: Tent used for 'Se7en' and old arena seating
Yellow Area: Games stalls
I've labelled the three areas as I wanted to show the size of the original X:\ building as well as two areas that could be used if a replacement ride required more space.
I'll now go over a few IP and non-IP based ideas that I've come up with for a replacement of X:\ No Way Out:
IP based ideas
Call of Duty Nazi Zombies:
A laser shooting dark ride themed to Call of Duty's Nazi Zombie mini games (can you call them that?
). As much as I dislike the idea of using an IP (especially something based on CoD), I can't help but think that such a ride would go down well with Thorpe's average guest (sorry about the stereotyping, but it's kind of true :-[ ). It's probably not one of the most tasteful themes for a ride and it'd probably cause a lot of controversy if they were to create a ride based on killing undead Nazis, but I'll just throw the idea out there.
Bioshock:
A tour of the ruined underwater city Rapture from the Bioshock games. The scale of the city and the range of villains means that there's a lot to chose from for such a ride. Unfortunately it would probably be too expensive to implement at a decent standard and I've no idea if it'd be a popular IP to use, though if the rumoured film gets the go-ahead within the next few years, it might be something to consider?
Original Ideas
Lake Exploration:
A journey to the bottom of Thorpe's lakes to uncover old ruins and the creatures that inhabit them. Could be linked with Colossus and have some kind of Atlantean theme. Indoor water ride?
Ruined Weapons Silo:
An exploration of a ruined weapons silo which was destroyed many years ago when an accident detonated numerous warheads which sealed the workers beneath the Earth in irradiated tunnels and chambers. Could have laser blasters too?
Egyptian Tomb:
The existing pyramid could be rethemed and the new attraction could be based on a new museum style attraction which goes horribly wrong. A story could be that an angered Mummy unleashes a curse which plunges the newly opened Thorpe Museum into darkness and awakens the numerous exhibits which attempt to bring your tour to a grizzly end!
To vary it from the Egyptian themed dark rides at Chessington and Legoland, the ride could be similar to the various Revenge of the Mummy rides found at Universal parks. A part dark ride, part coaster may require expanding the X:\ building around the back and on the side to allow for more room.
Obviously the X:\ building doesn't have to remain, but I feel that if Thorpe ditched the Vekoma thing, they have a great opportunity to build a decent(ish
) dark ride. They have enough flat rides and they already have plans for another coaster for 2015 which won't utilise this site too.