Towers Loving Care

[venny]

Fairly cautious about any Duel TLC given the absolute disaster of a refurb that Tomb Blaster got at Chessington.

 

[rob666]

I have said it before...and got criticised for it, so will say it again,
stick a little launched family coaster in there, and make it the haunted house again.

 

[Jared]

Nooooo. Don't remove one of Alton Towers' only remaining dark rides. Dark rides are a big favourite of mine and we just don't have enough decent ones in the UK (compared to like, say, Disney World where the majority are dark rides). Duel just needs a big makeover, and I had heard rumours of a big new dark ride in 2019.

 

[BarryZola]

Nooooo. Don't remove one of Alton Towers' only remaining dark rides. Dark rides are a big favourite of mine and we just don't have enough decent ones in the UK (compared to like, say, Disney World where the majority are dark rides). Duel just needs a big makeover, and I had heard rumours of a big new dark ride in 2019.

I appreciate the sentiment completely. However, personally, I now feel that although the Haunted House was great when I was in my early teens, and fulfilled its role brilliantly, there probably aren't many people above a certain age who havn't enjoyed the ride in its original form. My harsh comment would be that they shouldn't simply restore it to almost be a living museum of its original self, but that they should embrace some new technology and create something almost completely new in the space to entice people of all ages to have an interest in a new experience. In short, I would rather that they spent money on creating a new experience in this case, rather than 'doing up' an old one.

 

[jmc]

Duel was absolutely awful today. In the screaming faces section they have installed some horrendous blue flashing lights which completely ruin the effect and show all the mechanisms and walls. Several sections of the attraction are just meandering around in pitch black. The spiders are completely static with no audio.

Look out for the entire corridor of darkness with nothing but a cheap halloween prop skull lit up to your left!


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[Jordan]

Really impressed by Hex today. From the lighting to audio to effects, the theatrical experience was extremely polished.

From what I understand, a small number of staff spent a huge amount of time on the Hex improvements (and being sympathetic to the original ride), and their efforts do show. Thank you.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I've not been, but I hear from some others whose judgement I kind of trust that the new sound system is quite tinny and echoes harshley in places (so is EQ'd wrongly) making it difficult to hear every word the narrator is saying in the preshow.

And that the lighting has had lots of liberties taken with it, while it did need a lot of refocussing and restoring - apparently it is quite overly bright now in places and reveals a bit too much / is distracting. What were details before are now all lit brightly so there are no longer any subtlties.

I'll reserve my own judgement. Since Hex had a lot of show design & consideration put into it in the first place, I am a bit worried it could be true that the park have taken too many liberties with it? What do others think?

Yes Duel's lighting is absolutely awful, especially wherever bright blue LEDs have replaced proper UV strobes (where the light is invisible but you get a great strobing effect on the props only, the rest is painted black and therefore not seen. The strobe illusions such as flying heads and quivering spiders, which rely entirely on lighting cues and timing, have not worked properly for many years. And so look pathetic instead of shocking and illusionary. The Grand Hall demon at the start was originally a lighting trick too.

 

[DiogoJ42]

The slight problem with LED "UV" lamps is that they are not, in fact, UV. They're just very blue.

 

[jmc]

If I remember rightly when Duel opened they painted over all the original detailing of the monsters with UV colours so they would glow with UV lights..? Now theyre just lit up with extremely bright LED's it makes the whole place look like a very cheap travelling haunted house. Great shame.


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[Dave]

I've not been, but I hear from some others whose judgement I kind of trust that the new sound system is quite tinny and echoes harshley in places (so is EQ'd wrongly) making it difficult to hear every word the narrator is saying in the preshow.

And that the lighting has had lots of liberties taken with it, while it did need a lot of refocussing and restoring - apparently it is quite overly bright now in places and reveals a bit too much / is distracting. What were details before are now all lit brightly so there are no longer any subtlties.

I'll reserve my own judgement. Since Hex had a lot of show design & consideration put into it in the first place, I am a bit worried it could be true that the park have taken too many liberties with it? What do others think?

Yes Duel's lighting is absolutely awful, especially wherever bright blue LEDs have replaced proper UV strobes (where the light is invisible but you get a great strobing effect on the props only, the rest is painted black and therefore not seen. The strobe illusions such as flying heads and quivering spiders, which rely entirely on lighting cues and timing, have not worked properly for many years. And so look pathetic instead of shocking and illusionary. The Grand Hall demon at the start was originally a lighting trick too.

Audio wasn't "tinny" EQ seemed fine but the volume was too high, think it will take some adjusting with crowds in situ but nothing too tricky.

In the octagon one light stayed on which needs only to illuminate when the curtain fan starts, don't know if that was intentional or an error. There is more lighting in the queue but I quite like it as you can see some of the stuff around the queue line which is nice.

Vault has some fixed lighting (including some that haven't worked for years) but no major change in there.

 

[Rick]

I'll reserve my own judgement. Since Hex had a lot of show design & consideration put into it in the first place, I am a bit worried it could be true that the park have taken too many liberties with it? What do others think?

More than that, it was completely rethought after 2000 and much of it reconsidered, with various changes over 16 years. It'll take time, but they'll get there in the end.

 

[ChristmasPud]

More than that, it was completely rethought after 2000 and much of it reconsidered, with various changes over 16 years. It'll take time, but they'll get there in the end.

The studios relit it in year 1 yes, I'm talking about the finished iteration though not the redesign phase. Any other changes that would've happened in the years since that would've been done off the cuff by the park and not professionally. Part of the lighting restoration this winter should've been to return it to V2 completed state, which I hear theyve done for the most part.

The thing is, and this is just the way it tends to work, the park don't hire any proper lighting designers in house and didn't get the Studios involvement in this refurbishment (though the Studios have changed so much since they did Hex would it be worth it?), so all the audio/lighting decisions made would all come down to instinct from the parks' technicians. From experience this very often leads to technicians having personal agendas about what looks best (I have also been guilty of this on occasion), sometimes to horrendous results (see Duel/Haunted House's constant fiddly changes over 20ish years at the detriment of the original design). But other times, it can be absolutely fine.

And so I was worried it may be the case here, even from technicians with the very best of intentions. It's something Ive witnessed over and over. But this occasion with Hex, it sounds like a bit of finessing is needed and then it will be fine. Hex was from a time when attractions were designed and built to a very professional show grade, so worth keeping it maintained. They've certainly put in an enormous amount of care for an in house job, which is truly fantastic.

If I remember rightly when Duel opened they painted over all the original detailing of the monsters with UV colours so they would glow with UV lights..? Now theyre just lit up with extremely bright LED's it makes the whole place look like a very cheap travelling haunted house. Great shame.

Interesting you mention this.. In 1992 they had a very cool, subtle flourescent treatment that would look amazing in the dark, with lots of detail and shadow on them. It was done with a mix of UV pigment and traditional detailing. But it was decided the ride should look more 'scary' and so most the blacklit details were removed and the scenes painted less colourfully.

Then in 2003 for Duel, it all went UV again! But this time, just straight up UV paint, with cheap looking colours, and not even lit by blacklight so what was the point? It just removed all the detail from the creatures and made them look flat & featureless. Odd!

 

[DiogoJ42]

The thing is, and this is just the way it tends to work, the park don't hire any proper lighting designers

-Ahem-

... I'm right here, Varney ...

 

[ChristmasPud]

I should explain too, Im sure these parks often hire people who've worked with lighting a lot and been show technicians to various extents. But it's very different to hiring theatre designers or AV designers with experience. And no park in the UK hires very experienced designers in house, there's no need to do so when it's the park's job just to maintain the show, not to redesign it.

It's not an elitist thing - Ive been a technician myself and been guilty of letting my own opinion/style fiddle with something on occasion. It can be a very subjective world if you let it be, you see. I wouldnt want to see that with Hex, that's all.

All points towards a great team effort on Hex this winter, a little finnessing by the sound of it and all looks set to be fantastic again.

 

[JB1985]

Opening day summary. 1) train your staff in customer service. Delays and teething issues happen but for them to be unexplained is not acceptable. I have no real issue with delays (although not to yesterday's extent) but so have issues with the way it was portrayed. I.e it's a new system tough. 2) ride downtime. Not acceptable. You have had all winter to prepare. Guess it's just an off day. 3) Food. Why was everywhere shut so quickly after ride closure. A couple of late restaurant wouldn't go a miss. We always stop for a curry on the way back due to the lack of onsite options. 4) lack of rides. It really is becoming apparent now. Apart from the coaster what is there? Hex and a falling apart Duel ( which should get looked at next close season) no shows no real filler rides. Think we have lost submission, ripsaw, energizer, dynamo and probably others I have forgot. The park needs to be more than coasters. I say knock sw8 on the head for a year use the £15m plus on three quality flats.

This all said, the TLC work is excellent. Loving Nemesis, Towers Street, new signage. Hex well it's not been that great since the early 2000's.

If the park and its current lineup are restored to that level then I won't complain. With some good solid investments over the next 5 years we may just may get our AT back.

6/10 for performance on opening day. 9/10 for hope though. I feel they are so close but still so far from where they need to be.

 

[Dave]

The studios relit it in year 1 yes, I'm talking about the finished iteration though not the redesign phase. Any other changes that would've happened in the years since that would've been done off the cuff by the park and not professionally. Part of the lighting restoration this winter should've been to return it to V2 completed state, which I hear theyve done for the most part.

The thing is, and this is just the way it tends to work, the park don't hire any proper lighting designers in house and didn't get the Studios involvement in this refurbishment (though the Studios have changed so much since they did Hex would it be worth it?), so all the audio/lighting decisions made would all come down to instinct from the parks' technicians. From experience this very often leads to technicians having personal agendas about what looks best (I have also been guilty of this on occasion), sometimes to horrendous results (see Duel/Haunted House's constant fiddly changes over 20ish years at the detriment of the original design). But other times, it can be absolutely fine.

And so I was worried it may be the case here, even from technicians with the very best of intentions. It's something Ive witnessed over and over. But this occasion with Hex, it sounds like a bit of finessing is needed and then it will be fine. Hex was from a time when attractions were designed and built to a very professional show grade, so worth keeping it maintained. They've certainly put in an enormous amount of care for an in house job, which is truly fantastic.

Interesting you mention this.. In 1992 they had a very cool, subtle flourescent treatment that would look amazing in the dark, with lots of detail and shadow on them. It was done with a mix of UV pigment and traditional detailing. But it was decided the ride should look more 'scary' and so most the blacklit details were removed and the scenes painted less colourfully.

Then in 2003 for Duel, it all went UV again! But this time, just straight up UV paint, with cheap looking colours, and not even lit by blacklight so what was the point? It just removed all the detail from the creatures and made them look flat & featureless. Odd!

The lighting for Hex refurb was redone by the Ents lighting team (who are professional lighting techs). The audio they brought in an external sound engineer.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I'm sure they did a great job Dave. If Alton Towers do hire professional show technicians, who've worked a lot in theatre rather than just theme parks (tends to be a very different approach if you've only worked in only theme parks, from experience, not their fault at all) and given the right resources, then their set-up are quite different from most parks in the UK, or at least Merlin parks. So that's really good to hear.

It's truly very rare that the right care is taken by in house teams in the UK, even by people with the best of intentions. So Hex could have been altered a bit too subjectively or liberally. But sounds as if all is very good, and exactly the right approach. I'm sure the results speak for themselves, and who I heard from about it sounding "tinny" perhaps just because it needing finessing and they were exaggerating.

 

[Dave]

I'm sure they did a great job Dave. If Alton Towers do hire professional show technicians, who've worked a lot in theatre rather than just theme parks (tends to be a very different approach if you've only worked in only theme parks, from experience, not their fault at all) and given the right resources, then their set-up are quite different from most parks in the UK, or at least Merlin parks. So that's really good to hear.

It's truly very rare that the right care is taken by in house teams in the UK, even by people with the best of intentions. So Hex could have been altered a bit too subjectively or liberally. But sounds as if all is very good, and exactly the right approach. I'm sure the results speak for themselves, and who I heard from about it sounding "tinny" perhaps just because it needing finessing and they were exaggerating.

I think this might be the first time Ents tech team have been asked to light a ride, normally tech services do it. I can't speak for all of the entertainment techs but certainly some have a lot of theatre experience.

 

[ChristmasPud]

The more that this kind of responsibility is handed to teams with theatre understanding better! Lighting, sound and animation should ideally all have its own dedicated show maintenance team and checks carried out on all attractions regularly. But of course, unfortunately thats not a resource that UK theme parks have ever provided to my knowledge, going way back.

Show maintenance has historically always been down to ride engineering teams in most parks. These teams may have adequate knowledge of sound & lighting systems, but it is an entirely different field and they rarely have any expeirence or understanding of a show, how illusions are meant to work, etc. Also they almost never have the time or priority anyway, when their main focus is H&S-critical stuff.

If "TLC" passes over more responsibility to entertainments tech teams, then that will be one of the best changes to come of it really and a step forward.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Obviously the majority of my lighting knowledge comes from TV, but like most people I cut my teeth in theatre. It's a hell of a lot easier to light for the human eye than for a camera, so I must be double qualified!



.... Right. Here. Varney.